Bible corrupts

reply to post by whirlwind


yes, but when one digs deeper it should actually read that the law only applies to other jews. killing non-jews was ok in OT law...
one more thing... when did i mention WAR? i mentioned "multiple genocides"

to kill an entire people (save for the virgin ladies, who are to be saved for a post-slaughter rape) is an atrocity... see the slaughter at middia for god's holy genocide.

reply to post by Ecidemon


He did, so why would he address the rules for the future when it was in their present time? That is like a politician coming out and setting goals for 2050. Exodus was in the very old times, so why set rules for nations that has not even existed yet?
He gave Moses the 10 commandments, and people say those are just morals practiced by everyday people. Well then, why do we have adultery commited everyday? why do people fall into greed and kill one another?

Those my friend were stuff that was not in the Bible. If the Bible was so corrupt and taught us slavery, killing of innocent people and such, then why is it not practiced by every Christian world wide?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


madnessinmysoul can you provide me with some links to these genocides please? Do not think I am saying you are wrong, but I would like to research the Middia genocide for myself. When I try google it shows nothing.

Please do not think religion has caused the biggest slaughtery in history. Christians have died many times, by the hand Islam and Atheism. Look at the Assyrian/Armenian genocide in 20th century, or the slaughtery commited by Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse Tung, which might I add more then 100,000 million have died from.
You have to see the world for what it is, people cause crime, not religion, science or atheism.

[edit on 10-9-2007 by Equinox99]

Originally posted by Equinox99
madnessinmysoul can you provide me with some links to these genocides please? Do not think I am saying you are wrong, but I would like to research the Middia genocide for myself. When I try google it shows nothing.

first i should suggest reading your bible cover to cover... you'll find all sorts of crazy stuff.
but i'll give you the passages.

i believe your problem was in my misspelling, it is only 1 D...

Num 31:1- 18

Please do not think religion has caused the biggest slaughtery in history. Christians have died many times, by the hand Islam

um... yeah....
read the first line... read the second line....
islam is a religion too.
christians have killed as many muslims as muslims have killed christians...
oh, and what about those good christians killing all those native americans?

and Atheism.

nobody died in the name of not believing in god. the people you claim were killed by "atheism" were in reality killed by people that happened to be atheists. it would be like claiming that christianity was the reason for the holocaust because hitler was a christian.

Look at the Assyrian/Armenian genocide in 20th century, or the slaughtery commited by Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse Tung, which might I add more then 100,000 million have died from.

....mao and stalin killed 1 billion people? that's news to me... i think you might have added a few too many zeros
.
but again, communism, not atheism, killed those people, like i said before, it would be like blaming christianity for the holocaust because hitler and most germans happened to be christian.

You have to see the world for what it is, people cause crime, not religion, science or atheism.

well... science and atheism can't cause anything, religion inherently is bigoted. atheism is "i don't believe but if i have evidence presented i will believe" religion is "i believe, it's the 100% truth, you won't change my mind, and you're wrong"

also, the bible has bigotry built in...

Stalin may have been an atheist, but he created a totalitarian religion of state worship to replace the supernatural religions that existed previously. Totalitarian regimes are fundamentalist regimes -- Stalin's Russia was a fundamentalist state, i.e., a religious one, even if they didn't speak of god.

Saying atheism caused the deaths of all those Russians is misleading and incorrect. And it's always the only argument Xians can come up with during a debate about how many wars have been caused by religion.

MOST wars on the planet were either overtly because of religion or religion was used to mask the underlying purposes. Religion is a poison and has caused more deaths in history than any other single cause.

Bosnia, Rwanda, the Crusades, the Inquisitions, "in this sign shall you conquer."

Atheists don't kill other people to prove there isn't a god. We just argue with people about it on the internet.

How many times does this all have to be argued and re-argued on this website? Why can't people just live and let live and stop trying to push their agenda on everyone else?

If you don't want to believe the bible, then don't. If you do, then do. What's the big deal? Seems like these days people are just dying to have something to complain about.

Originally posted by closettrekkie
If you don't want to believe the bible, then don't. If you do, then do. What's the big deal? Seems like these days people are just dying to have something to complain about.

sorry, mate, can't stop complaining about something that's currently poisoning the world, spreading ignorance and death in its wake.

evil triumphs when good people do nothing.

Originally posted by jbell1011
The one thing that is always said by devote Christians is Jesus = God. That statement is a lie. Whats part of God's son don't they understand.

Not all Christians believe that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Or how about this one, if you don't believe in Jesus being your savior then you don't go to heaven. That is total b/s. How can someone say that to another person. Making that statement is contradictory to your beliefs. According to Christianity, only God can judge someone.

You are correct that no man can accurately judge another.
However most Christians should be familiar that Paul said when he was asked by the jailer, "What must I do to get saved?" at Acts 16:30
Paul answered, " 30 And he brought them outside and said: “Sirs, what must I do to get saved?” 31 They said: “Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will get saved, you and your household.”

This is in agreement with what Peter said in Acts 4:12
"’ 12 Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”

Jesus himself stated , “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life.” (John 3:36, King James Version)

So it should not be surprising that a Christian would feel that Believe in Jesus was a Prequisite to salvation.

Religion is not evil, but it has been a vehicle for people to abuse to push their agendas. Even the Christian Crusades was not about religion. It was to the lowly fighter, but to the leadership it was nothing more than a tool to push political policies.
Some people use religion and other use nationalism while others use just plan fear, but to say that religion has caused much of the world problems is really a very ignorant statement, just as saying guns are the reason for crime. When you look back at top 21 worst events see how many are not based on religion. If you wanted to really put a name on the top killer it would be communism that banned all religion other than a non-god nationalistic one that had no affect.


Religious events like Crusades 1 million killed, Spanish Inquisition 350k, and Witch Hunts 100k are all small potatoes.


Rank Death Toll Cause Centuries

1 55 million Second World War 20C
2 40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C
3 40 million Mongol Conquests 13C
4 36 million An Lushan Revolt 8C
5 25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty 17C
6 20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C
7 20 million Annihilation of the American Indians 15C-19C
8 20 million Iosif Stalin 20C
9 19 million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C
10 18 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C
11 17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C
12 17 million British India (mostly famine) 19C
13 15 million First World War 20C
14 9 million Russian Civil War 20C
15 8 million Fall of Rome 3C-5C
16 8 million Congo Free State 19C-20C
17 7 million Thirty Years War 17C
18 5 million Russia's Time of Troubles 16C-17C
19 4 million Napoleonic Wars 19C
20 3 million Chinese Civil War 20C
21 3 million French Wars of Religion 16C

Also I do not see religion as the reason for majority of these top killers

Genghis Khan 1215–1233 4,000,000
Adolf Hitler 1933–1945 21,000,000
Chiang Kai-shek 1921–1948 10,000,000
Kublai Khan 1252–1279 19,000,000
Vladimir Lenin 1917–1924 4,000,000
Leopold II of Belgium 1885–1908 10,000,000
Pol Pot 1968–1987 2,000,000
Joseph Stalin 1929–1953 43,000,000
Hideki Tojo 1941–1945 4,000,000
Mao Zedong1923–1976 77,000,000


[edit on 10-9-2007 by Xtrozero]

With regard to despots & corrupt church leaders who are guilyt of atrocius acts of cruelty & violence, one should keep this in mind.

A true Christian is a follower of Christ, an imitator of him, and would be Christ-like in attitude & conduct.

Just because one claims to be a Christian does not mean that Christ would recognize him as such. Just because they may do evil acts supposedly "in his name" does not mean that he sanctions or approves of them. "By their fruits you would recognize them" No by what they call themselves.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

yes, but when one digs deeper it should actually read that the law only applies to other jews. killing non-jews was ok in OT law...
one more thing... when did i mention WAR? i mentioned "multiple genocides"

to kill an entire people (save for the virgin ladies, who are to be saved for a post-slaughter rape) is an atrocity... see the slaughter at middia for god's holy genocide.

God is a God of love and He is fair. He is also a God of vengeance and a jealous God. He makes the rules, He judges and He forgives or punishes. He is just as hard on His own "chosen" people as He is on gentiles. Sinners, and we are all sinners, err if we see Him as a powder-puff, all forgiving, never condemning God. He is not that.

What you see as a holy genocide I see as punishment. In Numbers we see the people He brought out of bondage in Egypt. He saved them from the plagues and the angel of death and parted the Red Sea for them He continued that protection by clothing and feeding them for 40 years and yet what did they do? Complained and didn't follow His rules. Numbers 16:49 tells us 14,700 of God's children perished. If God punished His chosen do you not think He would punish those that hate Him?

To me, your statement about God killing non-jews in a holy genocide should be a question about why He found it necessary. He wasn't just having a bad hair day.

By the way, it was a war: Num.26:2 "Take the sum of the congregation of the children of Israel, from twenty years old and upward, throughout their father's house, all that are able to go to war in Israel.

Too, the Medianites were part of the family of Abraham. Median was a son of Abraham and his wife Katurah. When you say He wanted them to "save the virgin ladies for a post-slaughter rape" you are wrong. No where did it say that. The Medians were to be killed, in a war, because of the atrocities they committed. In other words, they broke the laws, rules and commandments God laid out and they were causing God's chosen to do the same.

One of those laws was rape. So....do you believe He would have sanctioned saving the virgins to be raped? It is more likely they were to be saved, as they had not been contaminated, for marriage with the Israelites. They would not be marrying out of their family as Median was part of that family.


.........Whirlwind

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by closettrekkie
If you don't want to believe the bible, then don't. If you do, then do. What's the big deal? Seems like these days people are just dying to have something to complain about.

sorry, mate, can't stop complaining about something that's currently poisoning the world, spreading ignorance and death in its wake.

evil triumphs when good people do nothing.

Seems to me if everyone would stop complaining and "live and let live" then we wouldn't have all of this poisoning of the world. You complaining is part of the problem, not the solution.

um... yeah....
read the first line... read the second line....
islam is a religion too.
christians have killed as many muslims as muslims have killed christians...
oh, and what about those good christians killing all those native americans?

If someone masks themselves as a Christian and goes to kill people in the name of God, and Jesus then he is NOT and I repeat NOT religious. People
can masquerade around claiming they are causing war for religion but is that what they are doing? or is it because they can throw around this to manipulate the people into war.

nobody died in the name of not believing in god. the people you claim were killed by "atheism" were in reality killed by people that happened to be atheists. it would be like claiming that christianity was the reason for the holocaust because hitler was a christian.

....mao and stalin killed 1 billion people? that's news to me... i think you might have added a few too many zeros
.
but again, communism, not atheism, killed those people, like i said before, it would be like blaming christianity for the holocaust because hitler and most germans happened to be christian.

Well, those people running around with the crusades, and such they say they were doing it for religion right? Okay let us put that aside fr a second. In our world today, how many Christians do you see running around destroying people in the name of God or Jesus?

well... science and atheism can't cause anything, religion inherently is bigoted. atheism is "i don't believe but if i have evidence presented i will believe" religion is "i believe, it's the 100% truth, you won't change my mind, and you're wrong"

That is not true, last time I checked it was not God who invented swords, knives, guns, nuclear bombs, missiles, warplanes, tanks and such. It was science, but it is not science that kills people, people kill people. Whether they say for communism, religion, atheism or elmo, the leaders implemented those reasons to justify killing of innocent lives.

You can look at us as close minded people, but that is not true. I enjoy reading all sorts of science books, but do I believe heat created this universe? No, because in my mind it is not right. I can say I believe in the big bang theory, but within me I know I would be lying.

As far as I can tell, the prophesies in the old testament are pretty accurate. I read it recently, and I guessed the one about Alexander the Great (A polytheist who the muslims made a saint! what the hell...?). Read about it here: en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
As far as I can tell, the prophesies in the old testament are pretty accurate. I read it recently, and I guessed the one about Alexander the Great (A polytheist who the muslims made a saint! what the hell...?). Read about it here: en.wikipedia.org...

The prophesies are 100% accurate. I challenge anyone to produce an incorrect prophecy. If people took the time to really read the Bible instead of listening to those that seek to keep them form the truth....they would sing a different story.

Originally posted by closettrekkie
Seems to me if everyone would stop complaining and "live and let live" then we wouldn't have all of this poisoning of the world. You complaining is part of the problem, not the solution.

ok, something that is an active denial of reason isn't something that i should just say "live and let live" about.

reply to post by Equinox99


this argument is stupid. saying the ones that commit these crimes aren't religious is ridiculous, in fact, most of them tend to be more religious... they are, in fact, following the holy books of their choice.

Originally posted by Equinox99
In our world today, how many Christians do you see running around destroying people in the name of God or Jesus?

well... i hear about plenty of homosexuals beaten and killed because of a homophobia perpetuated by those religions

there are socioeconomic reasons for the lack of christian violence in the modern world, not religious ones. if one were to truly follow christianity to the letter of the holy book they'd found a country similar to afghanistan under the taliban... but with alcohol.

science can do many things. i enjoy it all day like a good set of tools. but it will never dictate whether i build a bomb or an ice cream machine. mmm-ice cream.. the bible is a moral compass a different kind of tool but still a tool. people blame religion for war. most people use a compass incorrectly. i don't blame the compass. i blame the person or people who misuse it. including terrorists that aren't an accurate reflection of the religion they claim.

Originally posted by whirlwind


God is a God of love and He is fair. He is also a God of vengeance and a jealous God.

Envy-Jealousy is one of the seven deadly sins and sited as a sin in Galatians 5:19-20

"19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions"

en.wikipedia.org...

1. jealous resentment against a rival, a person enjoying success or advantage, etc., or against another's success or advantage itself.
2. mental uneasiness from suspicion or fear of rivalry, unfaithfulness, etc., as in love or aims.
3. vigilance in maintaining or guarding something.
4. a jealous feeling, disposition, state, or mood.

1. enviousness. Envy and jealousy are very close in meaning. Envy denotes a longing to possess something awarded to or achieved by another: to feel envy when a friend inherits a fortune. Jealousy, on the other hand, denotes a feeling of resentment that another has gained something that one more rightfully deserves:

dictionary.reference.com...

So if god is a jealous god he also must be a sinning god according to the bible.



[edit on 12-9-2007 by etshrtslr]

Originally posted by etshrtslr

en.wikipedia.org...

1. jealous resentment against a rival, a person enjoying success or advantage, etc., or against another's success or advantage itself.
2. mental uneasiness from suspicion or fear of rivalry, unfaithfulness, etc., as in love or aims.
3. vigilance in maintaining or guarding something.
4. a jealous feeling, disposition, state, or mood.

dictionary.reference.com...

So if god is a jealous god he also must be a sinning god according to the bible.

I think you may have overlooked definition 3, that you provided.

3. vigilance in maintaining or guarding something.

This is whay it means when God is described as a jealous God. He guards and protects his Soverignty. As Creator he has every right to expect his creation to give him exclusive devotion. So that is why in the scriptures there is condemnation over the practice of Idolatry. Rending worship to the creation rather than the creator.

No his is not guilty of a sin by being a Jealous God. I encourage you to expand your mind and do a little more research before making such an accusation.


[edit on 12-9-2007 by Sparky63]

Originally posted by whirlwind

Well lets see what the christian bible promotes:

Genocide, killing non-virgin brides, the stories of creation are 100% accurate, the treatment of peoples of other religions or countries, slavery, oppression of women, torturing prisoners, just to name a few.

Sorry, I can't give this book to my kids and say "read this and behave like it says." Why would I want to raise someone to ingnore science, treat others as sub-human beings, and to kill because the god says it's okay.

No thank you

He does not tell us it is okay to kill, He does not treat some as sub-human, nor does He ask us to ignore science.

Where does He condone slavery? The reference I found tells us He wants them to be released after a time. Where does He say to torture prisoners? He does tell His children to battle but you must realize there are reasons for that. Not just because they don't believe in Him but because they corrupt others.

What part of the creation story do you find opposed to science, except the part in evolution where they say we came from apes........sorry, didn't happen, nor is it proven.

In a following post you stated, Hitler had his church, the Japanese their faith, and in history most wars are sanctioned by competing religious authorities.

Religion is a great divider isn't it? Why? Because man has his hand in it. Stay away from religion and follow Christ.

I don't know what "church" Hitler had, except himself and if he wasn't led by Satan, I don't know who has been. Japan, yes they have a faith but it isn't Christ.



.............Whirlwind

science doesn't say that we came from apes it says that we came from homonids some evolved into apes and some into humans. religious freaks alway bring that up and it pisses me off