The Holocaust that was Pushed to the Backburner.

Most of us have grown accustomed to the "Holocaust" of the Jews in Nazi Germany. Just as commonplace in our thoughts is the severe mistreatment and murder of blacks during the civil rights era and the enslavement/murder of blacks that lasted throughout the earliest years of our country.

However, one subject that we all are aware of, yet hear very little talk of, is the holocaust as it applies to the American Indians.

As a result of European encroachment of the Americas, the Indian population dwindled from an estimated 12 million in 1500AD to just 237,000 in 1900AD.
Source

While these numbers are ESTIMATES, it is reasonable to assume that some 10,000,000+ Indians were wiped from the Earth, nearly driving them to the brink of extinction.

Even today, in the United States, there is a very good chance you have to drive for HOURS in order to even meet a full blooded American Indian.

Yet, this has become an often pushed aside fact of the United States. I know from my personal "education", though we were taught a great deal about American Indian culture, yet, we were "spared" from the reasons why Indian culture became almost unheard of after a short time of European settlement.

Even as late as the 1970s and 80s, the only American Indians portrayed in the public light were "savages" who were to be feared and hated.

My question is, why isn't the history of the American Indian genocide as widely promulgated as the tyranny that was rained down on the Jews of Europe and the blacks of early American history?

Is the history of this people not as important and meaningful to us as other attrocities of human history? Or do we simply look at it as an episode in American history that is best forgotten?

We hear everyday of the "minorities" in this country and "rights" of theirs that are violated on a near daily basis. Yet, we seem to have forgotten the only TRUE minority in this country. And that is the minority that was the majority before any of our European and African ancestors ever set foot on this rock we call the United States.

The "holocaust" of the American Indian is a truly sad aspect of our American culture and should be better remembered and talked about than it is today.


Jasn

Originally posted by SimiusDei

As a result of European encroachment of the Americas, the Indian population dwindled from an estimated 12 million in 1500AD to just 237,000 in 1900AD.
Source

While these numbers are ESTIMATES, it is reasonable to assume that some 10,000,000+ Indians were wiped from the Earth, nearly driving them to the brink of extinction.

Are you suggesting 10 million were killed...

Actually around the 1500s Europe had no way to deal with the large number of Indians and it wasn't until diseases brought from Europe that were not found in America basically wiped 80% plus of them out was Europe able to gain strong footholds in lands that were now void of Indians that once held 100,000s
here is a good time line.

www.kporterfield.com...


[edit on 8-9-2007 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Xtrozero



The only thing I'm suggesting that is many American Indians were killed and driven from land they had a rightful claim to as a result of European incursion upon the Americas.

And a good number of us seem to have forgotten that.

Originally posted by SimiusDei

The "holocaust" of the American Indian is a truly sad aspect of our American culture and should be better remembered and talked about than it is today.


Jasn

Live in the past or work towards a better future? Those are the choices. I'll go with the future. The following is from your own thread.

5. Political Correctness - Not only has the "philosophy" of political correctness stripped us of our testicles in this country, it has also managed to make us feel bad about ourselves for using words that were perfectly commonplace several years ago. Hey, we've got the slavery and genocide carried out by our ancestors to keep us guilty for the next few centuries. Let's wait until then to worry about whether or not ordering our coffee "black" will offend someone.

You seem to be all over the map today. Guilt for something done by those in a past Generation is a waste of time. Concentrate on what we can change. We can not change history. I'd agree we need to look to history for lessons but we should never feel guilt for things done by others at another time.

Honestly this subject is BS

why feel guilt for what the ancestors did...

if the Natives had guns and the Europeans didnt when they invaded... do you think the nativs would feel sorry?

if you invade a country and defeat the locals in battle... (EXACTLY what happened) THE VICTOR GETS THE SPOILs... in this case it was the land

and who cares if we spread disease? ... isnt that just a form of biological warfare? i say congrats to our ancestors for their inginuity....

reply to post by Blaine91555



No no no, I very much agree that we must move on. All I was trying to say here was, it shouldn't be forgotten.

I'm not all over the map here. However, I do feel that this particular event in American history is just as important for us to remember and for our children to learn about as the slave era of the United States and even more so than the Holocaust in Europe.

Notice, I made no mentions of "reparations" or any of that crap. Also notice I didn't call them "Native Americans". I believe you may have confused the point of this post.

I am simply stating that it has been pushed to the back burner in regards to other attrocities that are equally (or possibly less) important.

Political correctness is a SCOURGE upon the society of America. However, "those that fail to learn from the past, are doomed to repeat it".


Jasn

reply to post by Sad Lil Alex



Again, if you saw me saying that we need to feel "guilty" about this, you were reading the wrong post.

I'm simply saying that it's just as important as the slave years and the european holocaust, both of which are recalled on a near constant basis.

The subject is not "B.S." because it an unfortunate part of the history of our country.

As far as any of us having to feel sorry for what our "ancestors" did, that truly is B.S. And if you read between the lines, you may find that was the point I was really making here.


Jasn

Originally posted by Sad Lil Alex
Honestly this subject is BS

why feel guilt for what the ancestors did...

if the Natives had guns and the Europeans didnt when they invaded... do you think the nativs would feel sorry?

if you invade a country and defeat the locals in battle... (EXACTLY what happened) THE VICTOR GETS THE SPOILs... in this case it was the land

and who cares if we spread disease? ... isnt that just a form of biological warfare? i say congrats to our ancestors for their inginuity....

Exactly so and AMEN to that. I just wish all Americans had the same feelings today and not be so damn politically correct about warfare.

reply to post by SimiusDei


I'd agree with all of that. We need to learn from the past.

'But we should not feel guilt for something done by someone else at another time'
Are you totally delusional?
What do you think we are doing to Iraq right now!!!!
Oh for the love of God, they cannot see the forest thru the trees.

Manifest destiny is going to rear up and sting us in our collective asses.

They don't keep Geronimo's skull in a case at Princeton for nothing. Documented reports said he was fired upon for hours without taking a hit, or deflecting it. There are powers beyond our understanding that we should probably not have without the wisdom to go with it.

They were largely stone age people when the Europeans came..they didnt have a chance in hell. This sort of thing has happened since time first began.It is they way of man, survival of the fittest, one culture overpowering another.

"Even today, in the United States, there is a very good chance you have to drive for HOURS in order to even meet a full blooded American Indian. "

Actually in my part of the country there's many American Indians and many I am friends with. During H.S. History and even years before I was taught of the tragedies such as the "Trail of Tears"-not in this locality however-. I say it's definately not forgotten, the presence of Indians is a big part of American culture underlying, but some don't see this(example city names, events, etc). My anscestors came to this country after these events had happened, but I don't ignore the fact of this country's historical downfalls. These mass genocidal killings(Stalin, Cambodia, Holocaust, Dar Fur,Inquisitions,Vlad the Impaler...) have happened all over the world, spanning cultures and should not be forgotten,but not dwelled about to the point of hurt. You have to go on making the best of what you can. Yes, it's a very sad state of affrairs, the genocide, but some cultures feel it was for the better, even if wrong. It's to the point of unbelievable that these things even happened. History does repeat itself so education is the best answer of these holocausts.

[edit on 12-9-2007 by dreamingawake]

Using words like "holocaust" and "genocide" in this context is ridiculous Simius, it was neither.

The Indian Wars which resulted from the new settlers' drive to expand westward were just that... "wars", meaning confrontation and mass loss of life on both sides.

As well, regarding the many deaths of the Indigenous peoples, the vast majority were caused from disease, not outright slaughter as your OP apparently is designed to implicate.

Going further, the Indigenous peoples did retain land via treaties, agreements and compromises; To this day they still choose their own way of life and operate under their own authority.

We may or may not approve of the new American settlers' actions in certain regards but to frivolously toss around words like holocaust and genocide is a gross exaggeration of what actually happened.

reply to post by SimiusDei

Notice, I made no mentions of "reparations" or any of that crap. Also notice I didn't call them "Native Americans". I believe you may have confused the point of this post.

Wait, why not call them Native Americans? I mean I understand that all the hip iconoclasts these days are attacking the strawman of "Political Correctness" (Dennis Leary has some particularly popular zingers in some of the standup he stole from Bill Hicks) but uh...in this case why on earth would you prefer to continue to use the inaccurate label "Indian" when there are plenty of real Indians running around in India. Listen, I don't want to sound snotty and maybe there are still areas where the anti-PC backlash hasn't become thrice as tiresome as "PC" ever was (here's a hint: when undergrad girls with tribal tattoos begin ranting against "political correctness" you can tell your job is done and the grubsucking masses have officially been converted) but why not *at least* use an accurate description of a group of people instead of a misnomer. Native Americans, indigenous people, whatever you prefer. They're not Indians. You can tell, because Indians live in Delhi and work the tech support jobs for American businesses.