new questions, old theme

Greetings! I’m a new member with some questions for you . I apologize - I realize there’s a similar thread but I have several sub questions I wanted to get replies to. I’m not a big poster so it’s something I won’t do twice. Thanks in advance to your replies.

To atheists:

What kind of moral code do you live by, and what as an alternative to a god keeps you happy?
If you don’t believe in a god who will in time hold men accountable for their sins, what keeps you from exploiting others to get ahead - belief in your fellow ape? Belief in science and technology? Too me, scientific & technological discoveries all too often become tools in which to oppress the lower class, not advance civilization as we hope. (Maybe I just feel bad cause I am the lower class)
And granted religion has a checkered history, but don’t you think trying to get men to lose their faith would be dangerous - more dangerous than the threats from the radical elements of their religions? There’s certainly a sea of people who live in check now because they believe that in time they will be held accountable for their sins , and that there’s more to life than just working like a dog to help corporate executives get even richer. If you said yes - why would you want to come online and question any mans faith if it helps him get by in this often dismal pit of gloom we call earth? Finally how do you raise your children , if you have any? I would think forming a special bond, a deep love would be counterproductive since deaths in your family might seem all that more bleak to a faithless child knowing all that awaits their dead loved ones are coffin worms.


To Christians :

Don’t you feel silly believing in, or seeing the hoards of other Christians believing in politicians, or political groups who merely profess their faith in God to win your vote? The bible insinuates time and again that most people will be going to hell, few will find heaven, what makes you want to link up with the other billions of Christians worldwide knowing most of them won’t make the cut? Wouldn’t their thinking be flawed? The Christian’s I live around all seem to hold to an outward form of their religion, but not adhere to its power. Church here has become a tool for the GOP to manipulate the congregation into believing in their political agenda instead of Gods. (Note: Democrats just as evil) The people here are hardworking professionals who seem to use religion as a tool to advance their image in their neighborhood, but they wouldn’t think twice about cheating you on a bill if they could get away with it. Also don’t you think it’s only fair that Christ or God comes back immediately if he/ they are ever going to, since the bible is so often ridiculed in the media, and it’s the only link we have to god and the book is thousands of years old? Wouldn’t it only be fair of him to help his followers counter the media’s daily grind? If god were truly a father don’t you think he might be considered a dead-beat dad?

I’m lucky enough to have had a religious experience that by and large confirms my belief in God, but unfortunately the longer I live, and the more unanswered cries for help I see, the more I’m beginning to think he’s a selfish a-hole who feeds off of our misery. I’ve seen such hate in humans - a hate that god almost encourages to grow and grow without correction - I guess I were fortunate enough to make the pearly gates I would always be just a little suspicious that it wasn’t just a cozy paradise he setup to make the innocent even more vulnerable to the demon’s he might later set loose on us.

I think this may get moved to BTS since there's only questions and not a conspiracy angle mentioned.

...and to ask YOU a question -- "what's a sin?" I am old enough to remember when marrying a person of another race or faith was a sin against God. Working on the Sabbath was also a sin at one time.

It seems to have changed without a major global pronouncement from any deity.

Were those real sins? What's a sin, anyway?

Originally posted by bobolsonortom
What kind of moral code do you live by, and what as an alternative to a god keeps you happy?

Every human being is born with an instinctive moral code. The idea that a disbeliever is amoral is false. In fact it's highly probable that religious morals are actually transcriptions of instinctive morals, since nearly all religions have more or less the same moral codes (don't kill, don't steal, etc).

If you don’t believe in a god who will in time hold men accountable for their sins, what keeps you from exploiting others to get ahead - belief in your fellow ape?

The concept of sin is strictly religious. And nothing stops anyone from exploiting others, religious and non-religious people do it all the time.

Belief in science and technology? Too me, scientific & technological discoveries all too often become tools in which to oppress the lower class, not advance civilization as we hope. (Maybe I just feel bad cause I am the lower class)

I don't agree. Everything we have today is thanks to S&T. You might think we're living through rough times, but consider the short and hard lives of people in the middle ages or before...

S&T are tools as you said, but it's the people that use them that are at fault.

but don’t you think trying to get men to lose their faith would be dangerous - more dangerous than the threats from the radical elements of their religions?

The way I see it, it can only do them good

Originally posted by bobolsonortom
To atheists:

What kind of moral code do you live by,

the one i'm born with... but on more complex issues i tend to rely on reasoning things out.

and what as an alternative to a god keeps you happy?

no specific alternative to god keeps me happy. nothing has been replaced by god since i reverted to atheism (it's how we're all born)...
god just disappeared in a puff of logic.

what keeps me happy are friends and fun.

If you don’t believe in a god who will in time hold men accountable for their sins, what keeps you from exploiting others to get ahead - belief in your fellow ape?

being good for the sake of goodness.
neutral good, for the win

Belief in science and technology? Too me, scientific & technological discoveries all too often become tools in which to oppress the lower class, not advance civilization as we hope. (Maybe I just feel bad cause I am the lower class)

well, it depends on what advances. medical advances have advanced the overall human lifespan by 100% over time... maybe ever more.
science is objective, it has no good or evil, it's just there... however, experiments can be cruel and application can be evil.

And granted religion has a checkered history, but don’t you think trying to get men to lose their faith would be dangerous - more dangerous than the threats from the radical elements of their religions?

um, where were you on 9/11?

There’s certainly a sea of people who live in check now because they believe that in time they will be held accountable for their sins , and that there’s more to life than just working like a dog to help corporate executives get even richer.

false hope < truth.

and honestly, not everything revolves around making corporate executives richer in life... just look at the world and realize how much of it is about spending time with those you care about.

If you said yes - why would you want to come online and question any mans faith if it helps him get by in this often dismal pit of gloom we call earth?

because you can get by without it, there are other ways to keep yourself happy...

again, false hope < truth.

Finally how do you raise your children , if you have any?

um... i haven't thought about that yet... probably the same way my parents raised me, minus religion.

I would think forming a special bond, a deep love would be counterproductive since deaths in your family might seem all that more bleak to a faithless child knowing all that awaits their dead loved ones are coffin worms.

those without faith mourn no harder than those with faith. mourning isn't about where the person was going... if it was, the religious would call up all their friends when their family members died and say things like "did you hear that billy got into a car accident? isn't it great? he's going to be with jesus!"

mourning is about being separated from a person.

To atheists:

What kind of moral code do you live by, and what as an alternative to a god keeps you happy?

The same moral code everyone else in my country lives by. We have a social contract that is, at it's root, what the golden rule is derived from. You help me, I'll help you. You hurt me, I'll hurt you. It's reciprocal altruism, and it has its roots in biology -- all social animals have a version of reciprocal altruism, even between different species in some cases. Religion usurped the role of the Keepers of Morals and helped codify them (and all the weird ones that aren't based on reciprocal altruism, such as human sacrifice in Mesoamerica), but morality/ethics stem from our biological heritage.

If you don’t believe in a god who will in time hold men accountable for their sins,

Sin is a religious concept, which I don't buy into as it's a way of controlling people through guilt. There are right acts and wrong acts. People like me live a moral life without fear of retribution of a "god." We have laws and police to punish people for wrongdoing, which agencies are both material and quicker to act than waiting for someone to die to get his "eternal punishment or reward." People know right from wrong not because a god watches them, but because of society, and biology.

It seems to me that people who are only being good because they think a god is watching them are more dangerous than those of us who don't. I think they project their own fears onto those of us who don't believe -- what would THEY do if there wasn't a god to keep them on the "straight and narrow"? I already live a good life, and in some ways a better one that many fundamentalists I know. I don't lie to get ahead, secure in the knowledge that all I have to do is pray for forgiveness (i.e., GWB and the war in Iraq as a prime modern example).

And granted religion has a checkered history, but don’t you think trying to get men to lose their faith would be dangerous - more dangerous than the threats from the radical elements of their religions? There’s certainly a sea of people who live in check now because they believe that in time they will be held accountable for their sins , and that there’s more to life than just working like a dog to help corporate executives get even richer.

No. I think religion is a dangerous poison. People are murdered in the name of another's god to this very day. Even people who are part of the same religion murder one another (Sunnis and Shiites) and hate other sects of their own religion (people bashing Catholics, JWs or Mormons). Religion poisons everything. We would be better off without it, and I'm looking forward to a day that mass murder in the name of religion is a historical curiosity. But the events of the Middle East, and not as recently, Rwanda, don't give me much hope that it will happen any time soon.

If you said yes - why would you want to come online and question any mans faith if it helps him get by in this often dismal pit of gloom we call earth?

I said no, but I'll answer anyway -- because people are on line talking about their faith, and I find religion in America to be a danger to my rights as a human being. Here is a short video that explains exactly why we come online to try to talk some sense into the religious.

Finally how do you raise your children , if you have any? I would think forming a special bond, a deep love would be counterproductive since deaths in your family might seem all that more bleak to a faithless child knowing all that awaits their dead loved ones are coffin worms.

That's because you have a pre-conceived notion that there is a god and life is empty without it. I raise my children to be ethical and do the right thing, that life is precious because this is all there is and they have to make the most of it while they have it. I teach my kids to celebrate the memories of the dead, not pretend they're living forever on some cloud, watching them. It's called realism. It is far better to raise a kid with realism than fill their heads with superstition. I don't even tell my kids Santa is real, it's unkind and a lie, and I hate to lie to my children.

People who don't believe in god love just as much as people who don't. Perhaps even more in some cases. There are atheists and secular humanists who go out into the world and do good deeds for other people, such as aid work in war areas, Doctors without Borders, and so on, not because some god is watching them and keeping score for their final tally, but because it's the right thing to do.

I sincerely thank all of you who have replied - I can agree with some of what you say, and respectfully disagree with other portions, but I’m not here to debate with you are sell you on faith . Again thank you so much for your replies.

reply to post by bobolsonortom


i sincerely appreciate your restraint in not attempting to convert us godless heathens, thank you much.
now, don't be shy about asking any follow up questions here