Controversial air disasters

Mr. Marrs,

Warmest welcome to ATS.

I'll be very brief: I would like to ask your opinion about the actual causes of the following air disasters:

KAL 007

Pan Am 103

TWA 700

Egypt Air 990

JFK Jr.

best regards

Well JFK Jr.'s crash is a pretty simple one to explain. An inexperienced pilot flying a plane that he wasn't fully qualified to fly, in conditions that he wasn't qualified to be flying in.

Originally posted by JIMC5499

Well JFK Jr.'s crash is a pretty simple one to explain. An inexperienced pilot flying a plane that he wasn't fully qualified to fly, in conditions that he wasn't qualified to be flying in.

So it would seem. There are a couple of questions I had during the subsequent investigation. One had to do with the position of the fuel shutoff control and I believe one had to do with the missing co-pilots seat. I will see if I can remember back, although the JFK, Jr. crash is not on the John Lear Top Ten Conspiracies of the Millenium.

Welcome Jim.

Originally posted by gottago

Mr. Marrs,
Warmest welcome to ATS.

I'll be very brief: I would like to ask your opinion about the actual causes of the following air disasters:
KAL 007
Pan Am 103
TWA 700
Egypt Air 990
JFK Jr.
best regards

Gottago you should add United Airlines 585 March 3, 1991 at Colorado Springs and USAIR 427 September 8, 1994 to your list. These two accidents rank among the top of the aviation conspiracies because of their cause which were both pilot suicides. Both crashes were eventually attributed to a yaw damper malfunction and Boeing had to unfairly take the blame just as they were forced to take the blame in TWA Flight 800 which the U.S. Navy accidentally shot down.

When the NTSB first released their findings for UAL 585 they said they were unable to make a determination about the cause of the crash. (Other than, of course, "The pilot did an intentional 'split S' on short final placing the airplane in an unrecoverable vertical dive 10 feet from the ground."

When USAIR 427 crashed, the second pilot suicide in three years NTSB was forced to fabricate a reason. And the reason they fabricated was a faulty yaw damper. There is no yaw damper servo malfucntion that cannot be overridden by the pilot and it was an inside joke to those of us who knew the truth about the suicides, that to blame the yaw damper was indeed a desperate, last ditch attempt by the NTSB to keep the actual cause from being found out.

After all, they didn't want passengers boarding airplanes and asking the captain, "Hey guy, how are we feeling today?" (wink wink). Pilots are supermen. Nothing is ever wrong with them, hardly, or much. They are not subject to problems like passengers have. Never any problems at home, never sick on the job, no abuse of alcohol or drugs. And never under any circumstances would a pilot take a whole load of passengers and split S into the ground. Twice.

reply to post by johnlear


John,

Thanks for that info, I think...

These are not the kind of crashes you want to remember, and it's axiomatic you can hide most things from the general public in plain sight.

That said, what's your take on Egypt Air then, where the NTSB really did claim pilot suicide (albeit for a Muslim pilot)?

And the others as well?

I remember you saying that TWA was a wayward Navy missile--is the USN that sloppy? And just what on earth were they doing launching live missiles just off the coast of Long Island, in one of the world's most heavily trafficked air corridors, anyway?

As for Pan Am, what of the CIA/drug running claim by that former Mossad agent, reportedly hired by Pan Am?

Originally posted by gottago

That said, what's your take on Egypt Air then, where the NTSB really did claim pilot suicide (albeit for a Muslim pilot)?

Was not a pilot suicide. All I would like to know is who got on the airplane at Edwards Air Force Base.

I remember you saying that TWA was a wayward Navy missile--is the USN that sloppy? And just what on earth were they doing launching live missiles just off the coast of Long Island, in one of the world's most heavily trafficked air corridors, anyway?

The Navy did it. It was an accident. Period.

As for Pan Am, what of the CIA/drug running claim by that former Mossad agent, reportedly hired by Pan Am?

I don't know exactly who did it. I know who didn't do it. Libya didn't do it.

You might want to add Comair flight 5191 to that list.

While I was perusing an aviation forum, I came upon this thread in which the author, James Bergquist, alleges untruths in the NTSB report concerning the crash.

When I downloaded the FAA ATC tapes, I discovered that the controller wasn't doing traffic count after he cleared the stricken aircraft for takeoff but immediately diverted his attention to a previous departure and was performing approach control duties while Comair was rolling down the wrong runway. Traffic count could not have been a factor in this accident.

Additionally, there is another item that the NTSB overlooked. You are telling us that the controller "immediately activated the emergency response". But the FAA tapes show something completely different. The FAA tapes show that there was well over a two minute delay after the crash before the controller pulled the crash phone. That is a huge error for the NTSB to make even in the preliminary stages of an accident investigation.

I cannot understand how the NTSB would think that they can hoodwink the public with this lie on one hand and let the FAA provide the public with the tapes that clearly show that it is all a lie on the other.

The NTSB bulletin can be found here

The Air Traffic Control tapes are available here

James Bergquist provided a transcript/analysis of the tape on this thread on another forum.

I don't know why the NTSB would want to provide false information in their report,
but apparently the FAA tapes contradict their findings.

Egypt Air and JFK Jr. mysteriously took the exact same dive at almost the exact same place....

Some have suggested Egypt Air was a test run for a Manchurian candidate execution of JFK jr.

Check out this video for some great info about all the lies told during the investigation;

Google Video Link

Ok Im going to bite here(despite my better judgement) and ask WHY you think TWA 800 was shot down? Every shred of credible proof that does NOT involve some conspiracy theorists rantings, says otherwise. Why is it so hard for you people to accept that "sometimes a chair is just a chair"?

There is NO reasonable proof that the aircraft was shot down by anything. The problem with the 747's centreline fuel tank and the associated wiring looms is well known. Why else do you think they now fit nitrogen purge systems after this accident on those very same tanks? The recovered physical evidence fits perfectly with the theory that fuel vapour+arcing+an appropriate mix of air/oxygen equals a big bomb. I suppose Mr Lear is now going to pull out the "continous rod warhead theory" to justify the argument? And all based on the amazing evidence that the fuselage broke in a clean line. Wow! like a significant weakening of the fuselage just forward of the wing from a large explosion, coupled with a large amount of aerodynamic load wouldn't do that on a 747?

Why does EVERYTHING have to be a conspiracy?

LEE.

Originally posted by thebozeian

Ok Im going to bite here(despite my better judgement) and ask WHY you think TWA 800 was shot down? Every shred of credible proof that does NOT involve some conspiracy theorists rantings, says otherwise. Why is it so hard for you people to accept that "sometimes a chair is just a chair"?


Why does EVERYTHING have to be a conspiracy?

LEE.

Thanks for the post Lee. Everything does not not have to be a conspiracy but it turns out that it always is.

The reasonable proof that TWA 800 was shot down comes in many different pieces of evidence. I have neither the time or desire to bring you up to speed.

But I will tell you this. Under no conditions of any sort would or could a center fuel tank pump explode or set off an explosion. I am a pilot and a mechanic and I flew Boeing airplanes for 30 years. That is totally and completely false. The vapor-arc-appropriate mix of air oxygen occurring in the tank, any tank of any Boeing airplane is sheer fiction. At the time that fairy tale came out I was flying Lockheed L-1011 cargo planes into Wichita to pick up 777 engine cowlings for Boeing Seattle. You should have heard those Boeing mechanics ridicule and rip to shreds that arcing theory.

Boeing agreed to admit that the fuel tank pump started the conflagration on the 747-100 series only, in return for being allowed to merge with McDonnell Douglas. Boeing agreed to the 747-100 because many of them were out of service and it would not affect their current customers of any series after the 100.

TWA agreed not pursue a criminal action against the Navy in return for a $360 million dollar private, low interest loan.

The passengers' relatives were left with Kalstroms promise “We’ll find the culprit’s.”

I would respectfully suggest that you do just a little more homework on TWA Flight 800 before you come in here and post that “every shred of credible proof… shows otherwise”. That is simply not true.

Thanks for the post.

reply to post by thebozeian


I followed TWA 800 closely as I knew someone on that plane. There was talk in NYC from the outset of a missile and there were several eyewitnesses who reported just that--vehemently.

And let's just consider that the 747, a hugely popular long-haul workhorse, was flying three decades without problem before this supposed fuel tank explosion. You have to roll your eyes at the NTSB on that one. really.

Howdy Gottago,

You asked, "I'll be very brief: I would like to ask your opinion about the actual causes of the following air disasters."

Very briefly, I reply,

KAL 007 - It's course intentionally mixed with U.S. spy plane to create international incident for political purposes.

Pan Am 103 - Blown up to prevent CIA team from reaching Washington and revealing agency drug smuggling operations.

TWA 700 - I think you mean TWA 800 which was brought down by friendly fire when it entered a weapons test. This had to be covered up to prevent publicity of our most secret weapons testing. This test involved Navy ships, a submarine, a fired missile, a drone aircraft traget and an electromagnetic pulse weapon being developed on Long Island.

Egypt Air 990 - Downed by mind-controlled assassin who turned off the fuel switch and dove the plane into the ocean.

JFK Jr. - Same MO. A mind-controlled instructor pilot (whose body was recovered during the 15 hour search for the plane which carried a transponder) turned off the fuel switch (See NTSB official report) and dove the plane into the ocean.

Jim Marrs

reply to post by johnlear


Howdy John.

Good to see you on this site. Maybe you can keep me straight on some of the more technical matters.

Best regards,
Jim

Originally posted by Jim Marrs

Howdy John.

Good to see you on this site. Maybe you can keep me straight on some of the more technical matters.

Best regards,
Jim

Thanks Jim, what was the Egyptair stop at Edwards Air Force base for?

John

Originally posted by Jim Marrs


Very briefly, I reply,

KAL 007 - It's course intentionally mixed with U.S. spy plane to create international incident for political purposes.

Egypt Air 990 - Downed by mind-controlled assassin who turned off the fuel switch and dove the plane into the ocean.

JFK Jr. - Same MO. A mind-controlled instructor pilot (whose body was recovered during the 15 hour search for the plane which carried a transponder) turned off the fuel switch (See NTSB official report) and dove the plane into the ocean.

Jim Marrs

Dear Jim,

Thanks very much for your reply. For TWA & Pan Am this very much jives with all I've seen, but could you be more expansive about the motives for the others?

Are you suggesting the US brought about KAL to put the Russians in a hard spot, and for what specific purposes, or was it a payback?

Same for EgyptAir--what was the gain there? Was this preparing the ground? To instill a sense of fear of Muslim fanatics pre-9/11?

And JFK Jr, why just then? was JFK Jr. considered any kind of political threat? or more because he would as he reached maturity demand justice for his father's murder? and why with two innocents onboard? Because his wife was pregnant--to stop the line and its threat? In Dallas they at least had the "decency" to take Jackie out of the equation.

Of course the Pentagon taking over the dissemination of information on the search to the press was the flashing red light in all this. By what authority does the Pentagon oversee a civil air accident and all dependent upon it?

[edit on 5-9-2007 by gottago]

Howdy Gottago,

I too gottago, so I’ll have to be brief. The purpose for getting rid of JFK Jr. is simple. He had let it become known to close friends and, make note of this, political insiders that he had decided it was time for him to enter politics. He was going to run for the senate seat from New York which would have put him head to head with Hillary Clinton. You know who would have won that contest. Hillary was the handpicked choice by the New World Order ever since she became the first American First Lady to attend those secretive Bilderberg meetings. So JFK Jr. was in the way of the globalists’ plans. He had to go.

Jim Marrs