Lunch with an Illuminati Mindkontrol Victim

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Has Jenny elaborated on other details about her friends overall character aside from the manipulative aspect? Positive traits and behaviors outside of how she had been conditioned, or was her friend so "caught up" in the programming that she was completely lost in the delusional realm that had been constructed for her?

reply to post by GENERAL EYES


Yeah, you're absolutely right about the embellishment and fabrication that goes iinto the stories of all too many "survivors". It's difficult sorting out the credible stories from the inventions. What makes it even more difficult, of course, is that the rituals themselves are deliberately filled with outlandish details that serve to almost instantly make skeptical people shut their minds. "Oh, you say you were programmed at Disneyland? How...um...look at the time. I'm late for something".

Before my first interview with Jenny (and I've only had three) I had read some literature about mindcontrol and brainwashing tactics. Here is one exchange I had with her that really sold me on her story. When she mentioned the part about the doll, it was something I hadn't really encountered much in the standard sources.

I said something like "The doll thing sounds weird to me. Usually, from what I've heard, they will give the child a pet and then, once the child has bonded and become attached to the pet, they either kill the pet or make the child kill it".

She laughed and I asked her what was funny. She said something like "Oh #, that never would have happened with me. The head programmer was a total dog person".

Details like that tend to sell me. Liars and fanatics usually have a very hard time making their inventions seem plausibly human. It might just mean she was a very good storyteller of course, but it was elements like that in her story that connected with me. That and the fact that she had no motive to lie and was pretty clearly scared the whole time we were talking.

Another thing she said, incidentally, re: killing animals, made a lot of sense. She said that good programmers generally wouldn't do that anyway, because they had realized that if a child got to the point at which it would harm animals, there was almost nothing left inside them. She said "There has to be something human in you that they can grab on to, or they can't control you at all. Once you're emptied out, you're a threat".

Originally posted by peabody

Details like that tend to sell me. Liars and fanatics usually have a very hard time making their inventions seem plausibly human.

Some people are neither liars nor fanatics but can still come up with a life story they truly believe in but never happened. One thing to ask her about is, was she ever hypnotized to remember hidden memories? There is a rather large number of cases where people underwent this type of therapy and ended up having totally false memories that the therapist led them to. Cases like they had very vivid memories of being molested by their dad for years, and then all were proved to be totally false. I would check into this just to rule it out.

I also think at some point you need to take the next step and start aligning factual data with her stories. You can tell me all day about the Bigfoot you have seen, but plop a dead on the table and all debates are over. There must be tons to documents official and unofficial that would help validate her stories; also a good list of everyone she knows that is a part of all this would also lead anyone who would like to investigate in a good direction.

Much of what I have experienced has been taken in personal metaphor and strides.

I had never even heard of these Illuminati MK formulas until ten years ago when I was struggling to make sense of many things going on with my life.

I'm also aware that many people take it upon themselves to "give an element of drama through associations" to their story - some, the more sensationalistic approach, and others a more low key method.

The lighthearted reference to a programmer being a "dog person" is a perfect example that not all programmers are malicious, and IMHO, the perpetrators who ARE are nothing more than unskilled hackers.

Regardless of the level of mastery and credentials, each has their part in the greater overall scheme of the Project - which, if I'm not mistaken, was brought about to produce a beautiful Nobility.

reply to post by peabody


"Mary and her family regularly attended a Catholic church. On several occasions, after the services and after everyone else had left, Mary (then a teenager) was taken down to the church basement. There several people, including the parish priest, forced her to trample and crush communion wafters, small wooden crosses and rosary beads that they flung on the floor. This was videotaped and, she thinks, sold to fetishists. From this she learned that nothing was sacred or sovereign except for the will and commands of her handlers."


I thought "Mary" was the porceline doll and "Jenny" was the topic of this discussion. Was that a simple mix up on your part, or what?

Peabody - I was reading over this thread in an attempt to see if there were any other things that I recognised from personal experience and I too, had a porcelian doll.

I never bonded with it, it was very tiny (about four inches long) and went largely ignored in my tomboy world, but I just thought it odd I had one of those as well.

Thing creeped me out, even the memory of it is somewhat disturbing - dolls in general, were not my thing.

Which got me thinking, maybe the doll is a way to test a young child as to their future parenting skills? An overzealous mother with designs for grandchildren might become enraged at the thought of her daughter neglecting such a gift, breaking it to symboliclly illustrate what happens if you "don't pay enough attention" to the child figure.

It's twisted, I know - but people in general, can get weird and unpredictable about certain things they are very passionate about - and a child, with limited experience in the ways of the mature adult world, can either take the symbolic action and accompanying explaination of it's demise personally - or not.

Once again, the profile of this young lady is becoming more interesting.

And I agree that I am somewhat confused by the Jenny/Mary mystery as well.

Was the story of the "Black Mass" an actual event or a tale Jenny made up for her doll?

*edit for spelling error

[edit on 2-9-2007 by GENERAL EYES]

reply to post by BroknJokr


Ha ha yeah, that was a total mixup on my part. Sorry about that. I typed that in haste. Should've been Jenny/Jenny's family. Thanks for pointing that out. Should learn to proofread posts before I send them.

reply to post by GENERAL EYES


First off, eep, the Jenny/Mary confusion was my mistake. I just didn't re-read that post before I sent it. The Black Mass was something Jenny said she actually had gone through.

It's interesting that you also had a doll, and you're right, there are all sorts of reasons an overzealous adult might have smashed the doll. It certainly could have been perceived as some kind of parenting test, or a way to evaluate her ability to be nurturing.

Dolls give me wicked bad heebie jeebies. I don't have any sort of spooky history with dolls, they just creep me out for some reason.

Your assertion that handlers and programmers are not necessarily gratuitously cruel is also interesting and probably accurate. Even by her account, most of the programmers seemed, at times, genuinely affectionate.

reply to post by GENERAL EYES

I have to say that the thematic elements describe thus far seem straight out of the widely available Illuminati Formula and other easily accessible sites on the subject that the thematic elements are rather commonplace

I find it hard to believe that a secret super power publishes a manual on how to control someones mind and then posts it on the internet for all to see, then continues to use the same methods to do it. This is not logical and i dont believe it to be true.

I also have trouble believing the whole "Im a mind control victim" crowd. I mean if they have the ability to control you to the extent you claim then how is it that you are making those claims at all?

Use logic. It doesnt hurt

CT

I've had enough accounts related in confidence from personal acquaintances whom I trust, and seen enough 3rd party evidence from seemingly disparate sources to make up my own mind that the stuff depicted in Eyes Wide Shut is relatively accurate, if not tame compared to the real deal. And also the participants involved have abhorrent personality deviance far beyond the average joe porno and use psychologically-tampered human 'servants' such as the described 'Jenny' (whether she be fictional or otherwise) as disposable resources for both pleasure and blackmail, as well as morbid & brutal curiosity. I personally don't believe you can untangle this problem from the bigger picture of what stinks in the world today.




[edit on 2-9-2007 by Shar_Chi]

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[edit on 3/9/2007 by Mirthful Me]

reply to post by Conspiracy Theorist


"The Illuminati Formula" isn't a manual published by the Illuminati to explain how to achieve mindcontrol over victims. It's a fairly lengthy book (of dubious factual value) written about the phenomenon of mindcontrol. The point General Eyes was making, as I understand it, is that people often seem to plagiarize parts of the book and claim them as their own experiences. A story that seems too formulaic, that coincides too closely with well-known accounts that have circulated for a long time, has to be regarded as suspect. I agree with that, which is part of why I have said all along that, although I've no doubt some things really happened to Jenny, I am ambivalent with regard to how much of her story is completely believable. When it comes to her account of her programming, I merely tell the tale that I heard told.

As for the second part of your post, nobody here is making the claim that mindcontrol subjects are perfectly controlled. Clearly, they are not. That the CIA and the Soviets (among others, including the Nazis) experimented with mindcontrol tactics and attempted to brainwash subjects at the height of the Cold War is not a matter of conjecture. The records are there. Even the most stolid, mainstream sources do not dispute their veracity. MK Ultra was a real, federally funded, program. By all accounts, the earliest efforts at programming were, at best, a mixed success and at worst a total flop.

The government may or may not still be experimenting with mindcontrol. Certain private groups and cults undeniably are. The idea is simply too seductive to be left alone, and the fact that any kind of success was achieved early on, no matter how small, guaranteed that some powerful people would remain fixated on the idea.

Is there a widespread, carefully linked pattern of mindcontrol experiments on behalf of a powerful, nearly invisible force called The Illuminati? That's an open question. But the fact that the efforts at programming are imperfect and that subjects and victims are able to occasionally act autonomously and speak out does not mean there is no such thing. At most it means there is a limit to how effectively a human being can be programmed.

Your advice that "using logic doesn't hurt" is good advice. Part of thinking "logically" is doing some cursory research and getting your premises straight.

reply to post by Shar_Chi


Jenny is real.

Your post reminds me of an interesting article I read years ago about Eyes Wide Shut in The Konformist. Here's a link to the article www.konformist.com... . Like much material in The Konformist, the article could benefit from some fact checking. For instance, the author claims EWS was based on a short story called "Trauma-Ville" and goes on to explain how trauma is an important part of mindkontrol programming. The film is actually based on a story written by Austrian writer Arthur Schnitzler called "Traumnovelle", which is simply German for "Dream Story". Still, it's a pretty interesting article and worth your time to read if you haven't already since it feeds in nicely with your idea about Secret Socities such as the one in EWS.

reply to post by Conspiracy Theorist


I think you might have taken what I was getting out of of context here, guy.

I'm saying IF such techniques are being perpetrated by Master Programmers, it sure as hell isn't part of some pseudo-religious movement.

Sorry if I wasn't as blunt previously.

In light of MKULTRA, in which I believe much was gained information wise about the psychological make up of all sorts of people from all walks of life in th US that whatever common themes were found to reside within every human conciousness in some way, shape or form is being exploited by the "Illuminati MK" theorists.

Spiral staircase = DNA
Porcelian dolls = false idols

I mean, name one "programming technique" out of the Springmier/Wheeler account and I can discredit it.

That's an open invitation.

But there are elements of truth there as well, just horribly, horribly perverted.

Hope that helped clarify.



[edit on 2-9-2007 by GENERAL EYES]

I find the Spiringmeier works to be unbearable. I tried getting myself to read them several times, but there are so many falsehoods on each page that its difficult to stay curious about any possible good stuff to be found in the book. its a dishonest book.


in constrast to that, the opener of this thread sounds a bit more sincere. that said, there is one thing I believe though: I believe if I spent some time with someone, sat and talked with someone, I could easily sense if this person is telling the truth or at least trying to tell the truth or not. something within us just has a SENSE for that. And we can learn to trust that sense.

so peabody: what did you SENSE when you sat across from her? and dont say "uh, well, Im not sure", because deep inside you are. And if you say "deep inside I sensed she was lying" I will take your word for it. and if you say "deep inside I sensed she is telling the truth" I will take your word for that.

I think Peabody has conveyed a few times he sensed a mixture of both truth and exaggerations, but not lies per se.

Here goes my take on this whole thing. It seems that programmers symbolicaly take something that means somet;hing to a child and destroys it, such as that porcelain doll. I think that it is to condition the child to believe that anything that means something to them will be taken away, thus NOT reaching out to people and telling what they have been programmed to NOT tell, least they be threatened with death. It is a whole programming plan to alienate the child from support from healthy people. I know because I am a Monarch survivor also, and I see the patterns my whole life and how the developed. Project Monarch is real and was is a subproject of MKULTRA, one of hundreds of CIA sponsered projects. I come from a multigenerational BLOODLINER Satanic ritual abuse family. These are the types of families that the Project MOnarch people will seek, as the children are already highly dissociative from all the incest and other types of abuse. Maybe at age 5 or so they are used for the project. But the trauma is what produces the dissociative conditions in the first place. This torture and rape is not just done for fun. It is ALL very methodical, and they think "long range" and how can we use this person for their whole lives, hell I am 39 and still being used and slowly killed off. The torture and rape, clearly will split the child up and produce alternate personalities that can be used in a host of criminal activities. Some of these "alters" as they are called have amnesia barriers so say, the child or adult may be used as a sex slave, all their lives but have no memory of it. They may be used in porn films and made a star, but their CONSCIENCE persona has no memory of it. AS for being a sex slave, the only memroies they may have are body memories of the sodomy, which for these satanic idiots, opens up the "third eye" and is seen as a spiritual thing for them. These satanists are VERY spiritual , but not how you and I see it, it is much more evil and they use it in dimensional terms, trying to tap into something that could be extra-dimensional, I am sorry if I do not make sense, I am under a ton of stress and felt an urgency to comment, although my perpetrators target me every day, and need me dead because I know too much, or did , except they are erasing my memory so I have dementia like symptoms.

I firmly believe there is a connection between these satanists and their wanting to connect with extra dimensinal beings and the like, everything is connected in some way, and it fascinates me to figure it all out which has gotten me in quite a bit of hot water now. AS my perps like to say, "I learned my lesson the hard way"!!!!

There have been connections also, with Satanic Ritual ABuse and UFO reportings which led me to believe that this wholel SAtanic thing originated from elsewhere, meaning "other worlds". Many will say that those are "cover Memories" but I think it is a double trick. Satan is the master of deception, and I have posted on other topics about how the DRaco master reptilian race of ET's are Satanic themselves. I think they WANT you to believe that those are cover memories, but they are re ally the truth. I was just beginning to get weird memoriesl coming up and then my perps really started working on my memory, I had alters that just knew things and blurted out stuff like "They are using children in time travel as spies" Where did this come from , the other purpose of having alters is to keep; knowledge separate from the HOst personality, therefor the alters just "know" stuff but the Host personality thinks, no that cannot be. This is why internal communicatin is sooo important.

There will be skeptics I know but I believe I am on the right track because my perps have given me cancer and clearly cannot afford to have me around, why, well as with so many others who knew too much , they were too muc of a risk!!

So what would you propose could be done realistically to gather solid evidence and expose the scene? What are some of the exact locations you can recall, are there any identifiers to validate your presence there. Visual evidence, names which can be cross-referenced etc.

I don't think it shouldbe exposed to the general populace because there are far too many opportunist who would try and take advantage of the slave for their own use.

It's a vicious cycle - and while I'm aware of my role in everything, it's also my family and something I've grown up in. I'd hate to have someone not in the "inner circle" so to speak able *or try* to access my programming.

A lot of people think it's just a sex slave thing because of the high numbers of people who are in that arena, but there are some very dangerous people who, if triggered, would end up killing someone.

That, in the wrong hands, is very dangerous.

*SNIP*

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[edit on 3/9/2007 by Mirthful Me]