what is your soul????

this is a question i have always wondered about......

it is true that people have a conscience (well i feel that i have)

say when i have done something really bad, i feel sick and feel that i have done something really wrong (im not good at explainin stuff) but surely you all have had the same experiences.

if this is true then what is a conscience???

and another question
we are taught that the brain controls all our movement, thinking etc.....

yet i dont feel like i am just a brain, i have my own thoughts and feelings, how could my brain know that i want to come on this website and post things, and that i want to listen to certain music etc....

surely something controls the brain, (us?)

i hope this post makes sense, as im not very good at explaining and describing things

Good question.

I belive that people have a conscience because were trained to have one. When you did something wrong as a child, you were scolded, no? Watch a dog, your dog, if you have one. If you spend much time with it, I'm sure you've taught it the concept of no, or bad. Watch what it does when you say it assertively. It's the same thing that goes on in our heads when we have to make a decision and we are debating the concept of good and bad.

I have had those experiences, you've described that well. I've attributed it to my "training". I have good parents, who shaped my concept of right and wrong.

A conscience is nothing more than a set of guidelines for society that our expirences in life have granted us.

That's what I think anyway.

Originally posted by JuanBond

A conscience is nothing more than a set of guidelines for society that our experiences in life have granted us.

I agree with that definition of conscience. It's the rights and wrongs that learn and set our morals from.

Your soul, however is your "consciousness". The ever-living part of your mind.

First let's define a few things, seperate them I guess you'd say ~ then we can go about putting it all together.

First the question of a concious. You have an ID, an Ego, and a SuperEgo.
The Id, thik of that part like a spoiled rotten child, the ID part of us wants everything our way, NOW! It doens't car if it's right or wrong, if it hurts or bothers someone else or even ourselves. It is concerned with one thing - pleasure right now! (the little devil on your sholder)
The ego is like the snobby 'miss. perfect'. It wants us to forget about the ID and it's ideas, forget about what we want or would like and do only what is right. (it is the little angel on the other sholder)
Now the SuperEgo. He is kind of like the reff in the middle. He does what he can to compramise and try to keep ID and Ego both happy. 'Have a little fun but don't do anything 'that' bad...'
This is your conscience, a mixture of these 'charactars' (not that there are realy little people in there of course, just thought this would help you understand the different parts :-) . It is at constant battle. The ego is the part that makes you feel lousy when you do wrong or hurt someones feelings ect.

Now as to the soul.
Think of your hand with a glove on it.
Glove = physical body.
Hand = soul.
The glove is what you see. It is the part that touches something when you reach out. Under the glove is your hand.
If you were to take off your glove, your hand would still be there. You just wouldn't see the glove anymore.
It may help to think this way. Pretend there was a magic paint that could make things invisable when you painted them. Pretend you dipped your hand in this invisable paint, then put the glove on. Your hand is not seen by YOUR eyes, but it is there, and if you take off the glove it will continue being all it was.

Your body is what you see in a mirror, it is what you USE to sense things in THIS world.

Does this make sence?

Your brain is an organ, just like any other organ only more complex. Your experiance is not stored in your brain, it is a part of YOU (the gloveless hand).

Does this help?

Originally posted by cleggy
this is a question i have always wondered about......

it is true that people have a conscience (well i feel that i have)

say when i have done something really bad, i feel sick and feel that i have done something really wrong (im not good at explainin stuff) but surely you all have had the same experiences.

if this is true then what is a conscience???

and another question
we are taught that the brain controls all our movement, thinking etc.....

yet i dont feel like i am just a brain, i have my own thoughts and feelings, how could my brain know that i want to come on this website and post things, and that i want to listen to certain music etc....

surely something controls the brain, (us?)

i hope this post makes sense, as im not very good at explaining and describing things

Your soul is a part of the Creator. The Creator gives a little bit of Itself to you when you're born, and you pretty much have It in your destiny.

It's something like a lock before you discover it. Once you get that key to unlock it, all you have to do to unlock it, is have faith in Him and he will lead you to the secrets hidden by the cloak of society. But if you lie and don't forgive people and don't have faith in Him, then you will lose that connection that He has given you and then it will be even harder for you to "unlock that door."

[Edited on 16-1-2004 by TheCatalyst]

This topic has come up a couple times before. You should do a search and you'll find many other posts about this.

I tend to think of "The Soul" in terms of Water. Metaphorically speaking Soul is not unlike a body of water. It has no predefined form or shape and when divided up doesn't change from one division to the other, (except for amount in each division, which is all conceptual anyway). It takes on the shape or form of whatever body or vessel it resides in. However, upon returning a glass of water back into the ocean, what was once the Glass of water is now indifferent from the rest of the Whole Body of Water once again.

If you were to view the "Ocean or Entire body of All Waters" as Infinite in regards to the number of Possible Divisions that it may contain and shape/form determined by it's container. Once the "container/vessel/physical body" is no longer suited to hold the "Soul/Water" the Soul returns to the Whole. The Whole then becomes indifferent from any other part of itself as well, making "The Whole of All Water" The Soul. The Soul should be seen as ONE Infinite SOUL (not Soul(s) and the division or separate Souls is merely a Temporary State of Being and Illusionary and Conseptual depending on the Conscious Perception of Reality while Contained within some type of Vessel.

[Edited on 16-1-2004 by mOjOm]

What if you have to earn your soul by doing good deeds? Like if you've earned your soul, you get to move on into the afterlife, but if you're a bad person, everything ends when you die. I've thought about this for some time but I guess we'll all find out sooner or later.

Originally posted by VanishingPoint
What if you have to earn your soul by doing good deeds? Like if you've earned your soul, you get to move on into the afterlife, but if you're a bad person, everything ends when you die. I've thought about this for some time but I guess we'll all find out sooner or later.

That is an interesting idea, I've never heard anything similar to it before.

Originally posted by VanishingPoint
What if you have to earn your soul by doing good deeds? Like if you've earned your soul, you get to move on into the afterlife, but if you're a bad person, everything ends when you die. I've thought about this for some time but I guess we'll all find out sooner or later.

Hmmm....

So are you saying that what you're earning is an "Immortal Soul" by the deeds you do during your life, like a reward for living a certain way?

Does this idea come from some Religious Scripture or just your own imagination?

It seems to be very similar to the type of "Judgement/Reward" system found in some Religions. I assume the Authority of who decides if you were "Good" enough to earn your soul is God or a similar Omnipotent/Omniscient/Omnipresent Ruling "God" figure?

Here is something similar to what I posted earlier. I hope you enjoy it and see how it relates to your "Soul Searching".

The True Self - by Derek Lin

"Master," the disciple asked, "what exactly is the true self?"

The sage replied, "Ultimately, your true self is the Tao and the Tao is you."

"I find that hard to believe, Master. The Tao is great; I am insignificant. The Tao is powerful; I have but a little strength. The Tao is unlimited; I labor under many limitations. The Tao is everywhere; I can only be in one place at a time. As far as I can tell, the Tao and I are completely different. How can you say that I am ultimately the Tao and the Tao is me?"

Rather than to respond directly, the sage hands the disciple a bowl: "Go to the nearby river with this and use it to bring back some water, then we'll continue the discussion."

The disciple carried out the order, but when he came back, the sage looked at the bowl and frowned. "Didn't I tell you to fetch the water from the river? This can't be it."

"But it is, Master," the disciple was confused by the disapproval. "I collected the water by dipping the bowl into the river. I assure you that this water absolutely is from the river."

"I know the river quite well," the sage said. "All kinds of fish swim in it, but I don't see any fish in this water. Numerous animals come to the river to drink from it, and yet I see no animals in this bowl. Many children from the village frolic in the shallows of the river. Well, I see no children here either. Therefore, this cannot be the water from the river."

"Master, it is only a small amount of water, of course it cannot contain all those things!"

"Oh, I see," said the sage. "Well, in that case, I want you to go pour the water back into the river."

The disciple did so with a puzzled expression on his face. He couldn't help but wonder what had possessed the sage to act so strangely. He completed his task and returned.

"Is the water back in the river?" the sage asked. The disciple nodded.

"Good," said the sage. "That small amount of water you brought back is now the same water that touches the fish, the animals and the children. In fact, everything that the river is now applies to the water we were both looking at just a while ago.

"Think of the river as the Tao and the water in the bowl as your true self. From a limited point of view, that water seems very different from the river. It is understandable how one can be led to believe that the two are not the same and can never be the same. The river is far greater than the bowl of water, just as the Tao is far greater than an individual human being.

"Having carried water from the river, you can now see it from an expanded perspective. The river is the source of the water, just as the Tao is the source of our true inner selves. You saw this for yourself as you dipped the bowl into the river, so you insisted that the water was the same even when I tried to convince you it wasn't.

"When you poured the water back, you saw that the separation of the water from the river was only temporary. It's just like that for the true self. Our physical existence is only a temporary condition. The eternal truth is that our innermost nature comes from, and ultimately returns to, the Tao. When all is said and done, we and the Tao are one."

Just as the bowl contains the water in this story, we have physical bodies that contain our true selves. Having a bowl is useful in that it allows one to carry water from one place to another. Similarly, having a body is useful in that it allows us to experience the physical realm as a part of it.

Sometimes we identify with the body so much, we become attached to it and think of it as the self. That's like mistaking the bowl for the water. The water remains the same no matter what container it occupies. In the same way, your true self remains the essential "you" no matter how your body changes.

Just as the disciple learned a valuable lesson carrying water from the river and back to it again, we also learn from our experiences and various journeys through the material world. Just as the bowl of water is all by itself as it is being carried around, we can also feel alone and isolated as we move through life, working on our individual lesson plans. This feeling, reinforced by physical perceptions, can make us forget that we are all part of a greater self.

The bowl cannot hold water forever. It may be accidentally dropped and smashed to pieces one day, or it may develop cracks and break apart after years of use. Similarly, the physical body cannot last indefinitely. Accidents, injuries, illness or age will eventually render it unusable.

The water must return to the river. Even if the water isn't poured back, but spilled somewhere, it will still flow or seep its way into the river. Similarly, when the body is no longer a suitable vessel, the true self it contains must return to the source. Religious people may call this source God; atheists may call it the laws of nature; we call it the Tao. Whatever its label, it is our point of origin as well as our ultimate destination.

Just as the water becomes one with the river, the true self merges with the Tao. That's when we realize that the feelings of isolation and separation are illusory. You and I are never truly isolated or separated from the divine source of universal creation. We are never truly alone. Oneness, the Tao that unifies all, is the ultimate reality� of the true self.

Posted by mOjOm

Does this idea come from some Religious Scripture or just your own imagination?

I had this idea one day on the toilet(where I do all my serious thinking), so I have no idea if it's part of a real religion.

Some have suggestion that the best evidence of a soul is the ability to display, feel and have awareness of empathy for others.

I agree with this.

Well, in Sikhism, hinduism. The soul is also called "AATMA" (spelling).

Wether or not its seperate from the consciousness, mind is beyond me.

I dont dwell to far into the subject. The soul is an immortal entity yearning to be reunited with Brahma.

Deep

thanks for all the posts, just one thing that im still not sure about the brain thing

its kinda hard to explain, but what confuses me is who control my brain/me???

how does my brain know that i want to come on this website and post this message??? someone/something must have told me to come and post

its a really bad explanation, just hope someone gets what i mean

another way to explain it, using the matrix (everyone uses that film) although i had thought of this before the matrix

its like im neo plugged into the matrix, but i dont know it im just the person i am now but something somewhere (neo) is controlling my thoughts and moves


this is probably a very confusing post and probably makes no sense at all, but hopefully someone knows what im gettin at

Think of it this way. It's your essence. Now that doesn't mean it has to be "real"... in fact, definitionally it may not be real.

From an analogy point of view, the "Soul" of a tree is NOT wood...it is treeness.

What may be evident then is that an observer is required (tree falling in the woods and all that). Read Plato on forms. It will make you almost think of your soul as an abstract concept that you create yourself to exist outside yourself, though you point inward to it, as essence.

Originally posted by RANT
Think of it this way. It's your essence. Now that doesn't mean it has to be "real"... in fact, definitionally it may not be real.

From an analogy point of view, the "Soul" of a tree is NOT wood...it is treeness.

What may be evident then is that an observer is required (tree falling in the woods and all that). Read Plato on forms. It will make you almost think of your soul as an abstract concept that you create yourself to exist outside yourself, though you point inward to it, as essence.

i sort of understand what you are saying, could you make it a bit simpler tho?