what's the difference between soul and conciousness?

Keep in mind James this man was not a Christian; in fact see seems either agnostic or an atheist. His point was that the no one (to his knowledge) had ever bothered to take this route. The Vatican would not want this answer this because it lowers the mystery and makes them less important. Also the Vatican has never acknowledged a concept prepared is such a way as to deny their system of belief.

Main Entry: scientific method
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Date: 1854
: principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses

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That procedure includes repeating the experiment, otherwise all that can be said is that the experiment is incomplete. This Guy was in his day a respected Physician and Scientist. Had the Vatican supported such an experiment they would have had to defer to the Japanese.

How exactley would it hurt the church if they repeated and found evidence of the soul? If anything, it would show the world that thety were right all along about god. They would gain more follower's and more control. They would eventually become a one world government.... By doing this experiment they have much to gain... By doing nothing about it, they will remain just as they are now...

Because if it were true the soul would no longer be a mystery, it would be something explainable (at least theoretically). It would not necessarily be proof of God but rather of an appendage to the human form (akin to Oxygen in the sense that is a part of the body one simply could not see). Also other systems of belief have tread on this ground, they (the Vatican) would be placed in a position to accept that such systems as the Shinto (as well as Western Hemispheric Indian cultures) were correct. Keep in mind that such things as "soul travel" are related to these systems of belief and not necessarily accepted in the alternative (Catholics).

Read Ecclesiastes 9:5

Ok, call me a heretic or just a plain ol' ignorant Christian, but that looks like a contradiction to everything else I've read. Can anyone explain how that is congruent with everything else?

How could a man ask for a finger to be dipped in water and brought to cool his burning tongue if he is unaware?

[Edited on 8-12-2002 by Thomas Crowne]

9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Verses which contradict this:

1 Kg.17:22
2 Kg.4:32-35, 13:21
Dan.12:2
Mt.9:24-25, 25:46, 27:52-53
Mk.5:39-42
Lk.7:11-15, 9:30, 20:37
Jn.11:39-44
Acts 26:23
1 Cor.15:16, 15:32
Rev.20:12-13

When you die its like your sleeping exept you no longer have a consiouness. Your waiting for the resurrection to be judged. I don't think you have a soul but rather a life force so to speak. If we went to heaven or hell after we died then why were there be a need for a resurrection? And if there was an after life then we would still have a consciouness and it would contradict what the bible says. Of course ecclesiastes 9:5 says your memory is forgotten but only till judgement day. Daniel 12:2 says that those who are sleeping on the ground in the dirt will wake to judgment.
I should've explained myself instead of just throwing a verse out there.

Originally posted by truthshallsetUfree
When you die its like your sleeping exept you no longer have a consiouness.

"When you die its like your sleeping exept you no longer have a consiouness. Your waiting for the resurrection to be judged. "

Then why do people have NDE's and OBE's and meet the dead face to face???

None. One is the religious/mystical term, the other is a scientific term. They are the same thing.

As for your question, Bandit, it is because the brain is loosing oxygen, which is vital for the brain to be a coherent organ. By lacking oxygen, our brains are no longer ordered and begin to display all sort of well preserved memories, which include tastes, smells, faces and yes, even interaction and people we no longer remember in our daily lives. Even the so called "tunnel of light" is a result of this. (Many super-sonic plane pilots experience similar effects and all due the lack of oxygen)

Take drugs as an example. Hallucinogenic drugs mess up with your brain big time, gawd knows what the hell goes on up there, but your brain circuitry is altered beyond recognition, resulting in all those beautiful '___'-induced visions�err, never mind that�

Our brains are complicated and delicate organs, filled wit all sort of mysteries. The storage and release of memories is one of the most interesting aspects of our cephalic machinery.

[Edited on 9-12-2002 by Magna_Machina]

Here is the thing Magna your implying that the energy that is consciousness is destroyed at death, but there are several issues which say otherwise. Amongst them
is the matter that we are made of carbon and the activity which is maintained throughout life in our carbon atoms continues after our individual demise continues.

A question that comes to mind, is what are the potential effects upon the carbon that makes up a human body?

This as a result of the effects of consignees upon it.

The topic is in fact complicated but does present a response to the issue of life after death which does
agree with those of ancient cultures.

What makes it possible for molecules to form is not unlike the very basis for thought. And what we call the past is represented in the present (in its entirety).

In relation to the above would suggest you look into the matter of Electromagnetic fields and the Wave function (this in relation to electron spin).

What are your thoughts?

The soul is a Lenz. Consiousness is energy.
Niether of them are God for the Tao that is spoken of is not the true Tao

Infact everything consists of energy. Atoms remember what they are and how to interact. Light never forgets its frequency. That is why some scientists are begining to define energy as consiousness. It remembers. What our energy remembers is our character frequency. Which you call soul. Energy can niether be created nor distroyed that is why we are immortal.

We are all part of the infinite creation and this garden was made for us to enjoy and celabrate. The stars remind us we are not alone.

So your consiousness is energy and your soul (induviduality) is the vibration of that energy. Do you feel much different from the rest of nature? That is why I say God is everywhere.

The possible frequencies for the light spectrum is infinite. That is why everybody is different.

Unity in all things!!!

[Edited on 21-8-2003 by enoch]

The soul is a piece of the GodHead/Void. Your soul gave flower to consciousness. Consciousness is an expression of neural substrate, chemicals, and your soul.

I guess many don't know my story. Until recently I was not a very religious person. Somewhat spiritual I guess with a somewhat belief in God.

That all changed about a month ago. I am now a very, very, very, spiritual person. I had the unique experience of one's soul looking at me and into my soul to straighten my a-- up.

You've hear of people "seeing the light"? Well, that is me.

Yes, we all have souls. It is the Holy Spirit within us all. Your soul constantly talks to you. It is the thing telling you what is the right thing to do. IT is God talking to you. Ever do what you know is not the right thing to do? You better listen to your soul. It is trying to guide you.

Your soul is very conscious. You hear it speaking to you. Whether you follow what it says is up to your mind.

Those who don't believe have been listening to too many others. Listen to yourself. It is the true guide.

Consciousness is one of the five aggregates, in buddhist philosophy, that make up ones "self".

Consciousness is "awareness" that stems from the other four aggregates.

I know I am being VERY vague in my explanation. In order to get into more detail though, I'd have to explain a few other things such as the other 4 aggregates (matter, sensations, perceptions, and mental formations), atman, and "no-atman", and a few other things. To cover all the topics I'd like to, in a manner which could be easily understood, I feel it would take hours, if not days, (and even with days, or years, I probly still couldn't explain it right...) so I will simply keep it as:

Consciousness is awareness.

Should you have any questions though, feel free to U2U me, I may not be able to answer your questions, but I probly can get you in contact with someone who knows.

Also remember that my definition of consciousness is coming from my learnings as a Buddhist. The definition will certainly vary depending on whom you ask, and their educational / religious background.

A google search on the five aggregates may reveal more detail... try it...

[Edited on 19-8-2003 by oui]

Originally posted by kim
are these two seperate things or are they referring to the same thing?

It depends how you define conciousness. If you concider conciousness as simply being awake, conciousness and soul is not the same thing, but if you rather define it as your ability of constructive thought, language and communication, and the products of this ability, you're on the right track.

In Jewish thought the soul is connected to speech and language and the ability to understand speech and language. Your soul is the product of your spirit and how you choose to direct your mind. The idea of "selling your soul to Satan" means simply to aquire his mindset, to explain things the way Satan does, through lies and ignorance, either out of stupidity (most common) or through greed etc. However since the soul belongs to God it can't actually be sold. It is impossible, but the words are of course a metaphor describing dualism, which in it's turn is a basis in Satan's crusade. It's an anti version of how Jesus bought sinners' lives and souls through his sacrifice in his own blood.

Blessings,
Mikromarius