Did the Space Shuttle dock at the Secret Space Station tonight?

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Yes....Anonymous. That's how I understand it as well.

the ISS is in a 'parked orbit'....it is high enough so that there is minimal drag for the upper atmosphere.

A Shuttle STS launch must be timed to play 'catch-up' with the ISS. This is basic space science, orbital mechanics.

IF the Shuttle contains special ET-derived technology, such that would allow it to move counter to Newtonian Physics as we understand it.....then maybe someone would have noticed?

Let's instead, say that.....for the record.....Secret Space Stations exist. OK? It is a though experiment. Now, if these SSSs exist, why in the heck would they need to rely on something like the Space Shuttle????!!!???

See the loss of logic here?

I'm not saying that the SSS don't exist....I'm just saying it makes NO sense at all to assume that STS missions somehow rendezvous with them, and no one notices.

Makes far more sense to imagine ET-derived spacecraft that can navigate and rendezvous with the SSS...all done in secret.

I mean...if you have a Secret Space Station.....why would you allow a very, very puplic Space Shuttle to rendezvous with it????

It simply beggars logic.........

Originally posted by weedwhackerSecret Space Stations exist. OK?

OK Nova agrees with you as well

Now, if these SSSs exist, why in the heck would they need to rely on something like the Space Shuttle????!!!???

They don't 'rely' on them there are merely a convenience... got a little extra cargo space, might as well take something up

You HAVE noticed that the cargo bay is haf empty many times before they show us pictures. Surely you don't expect us to believe they would send all that empty space...

See the loss of logic here?

I'm not saying that the SSS don't exist....I'm just saying it makes NO sense at all to assume that STS missions somehow rendezvous with them, and no one notices.

Your right you said "Secret Space Stations exist." I heard you

Makes far more sense to imagine ET-derived spacecraft that can navigate and rendezvous with the SSS...all done in secret.

Why does it always have to be ET tech? John Lear's father worked on anti gravity for the DoD with TT Brown in the 50's... I realize must people are youtube graduates these days but give us some credit here

I mean...if you have a Secret Space Station.....why would you allow a very, very puplic Space Shuttle to rendezvous with it????

Because it's THERE and has room to spare Personally I think it meets other craft in orbit...THOSE are the ones you don't see and make the final run to the SSS

continued next post...

I think that in the beginning of this thread John gives the time frames for how long it takes to dock and then goes on to prove the time it actually takes the shuttle to arrive and return and that is not even close.

So not only do we have wasted (supposed) space on the shuttle, but several hours added to the trip which do not make sense.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by antar]

I mean...if you have a Secret Space Station.....why would you allow a very, very puplic Space Shuttle to rendezvous with it????

Well lets step back in time a little BEFORE there was the ISS...

Now its true that the launches are public... but the missions are not always so... granted it is harder these days to 'keep the lid on' but they do it in between filming... or do you really think they sleep that much?

Well lets talk a little about the SECRET Space Shuttle Missions... the ones that carried ONLY US Military personnel


I like this patch...

The first military Shuttle mission was launched from Pad 39A at 1500Z on 27 June 1982. Military space missions also accounted for part or all of 14 out of 37 Shuttle flights launched from the Cape between August 1984 and July 1992. While many details of those missions are not releasable, some features of Shuttle payload ground processing operations and range support requirements can be summarized for what might be termed a "typical" military space mission.

Regular space shuttles have on occasion carried out missions for the military. It is noteworthy that NASA and the DoD agreed on delivering Discovery to Vandenberg AFB, first in May 1985 and then in September of that year. Discovery would have been dedicated for military and civilian flights from Vandenbergs' SLC-6 launch complex. The schedule slipped until the Challenger Accident in January 1986. In the wake of Challenger, on December 26, 1989 the Space Shuttle Program at Vandenberg was terminated by the USAF.

So Vandenburg has a shuttle capable launch complex... Hmmmm

Military Shuttle flights were conducted from Kennedy Space Center in Florida, the last dedicated mission being STS-53 in late 1992, deploying a military SDS B-3 communication satellite. Some military payloads have been flown on regular civilian Shuttle missions afterwards.

DoD Mission Patch

This was worn on those "Secret" Missions



STS-51C - January 24, 1985

First mission dedicated to Department of Defense. U.S. Air Force Inertial Upper Stage (IUS) booster deployed and met mission objectives. This mission's accomplishments are classified due to the nature of the work done.

Also according to Aviation Week, the shuttle initially entered a 204 km x 519 km orbit at an inclination of 28.45 deg to the equator. It then executed three OMS (orbital maneuvering system) burns, the last on orbit #4. The first burn is to circularize the orbit at 519 km.

STS-51C: Classified DoD Mission

Mission: Department of Defense
Space Shuttle: Discovery
Launch Pad: 39A
Launch Weight: 250,891 pounds
Launched: January 24, 1985 at 2:50:00 p.m. EST
Landing Site: Kennedy Space Center, Florida
Landing: January 27, 1985 at 4:23:23 p.m. EST
Landing Weight: Classified
Orbit Altitude: 220 nautical miles
Orbit Inclination: 28.5 degrees

Seems they don't want to tell us what they brought back down




STS-51J - October 7, 1985

First flight of Space Shuttle Atlantis. First Department of Defense Space Shuttle flight in which the payload, orbital parameters and mission objectives remain classified. An Air Force crew flew the highly successful mission. Landed at Edwards Air Force Base, CA at 1:00 PM EDT on October 7. Flight duration was four days, one hour and 45 minutes.

STS-27 - December 2, 1988

STS-27 was a space shuttle mission by NASA using the Space Shuttle Atlantis. It was the 27th shuttle mission, and the 3rd for Atlantis, 2nd after the Challenger disaster. It carried a payload for the U.S. Department of Defense.

Mission: Department of Defense
Mission name: STS-27
Shuttle: Atlantis
Launch pad: 39-B
Launch Weight: Classified
Launch: December 2, 1988, 9:30:34 a.m. EST
Landing: December 6, 1988, 3:36:11 p.m. PST
Landing Weight: 190,956 pounds
Duration: 4 days, 9 hours, 5 minutes, 37 seconds
Orbit altitude: Classified
Orbit inclination: 57.0 degrees

STS-28 - August 8, 1989

STS-28 was the fourth shuttle mission dedicated to United States Department of Defense, and first flight of Columbia since mission STS-61-C. The details of the mission are classified.

Orbit altitude: Classified (although based on distance traveled and number of orbits, this would be between 220 and 380 km)

Mission: Department of Defense
Space Shuttle: Columbia
Launch Pad: 39B
Launch Weight: Classified
Launched: August 8, 1989, 8:37:00 a.m. EDT
Landing Site: Edwards Air Force Base, Calif.
Landing: August 13, 1989, 6:37:08 a.m. PDT
Landing Weight: 190,956 pounds
Runway: 17
Rollout Distance: 6,015 feet
Rollout Time: 46 seconds
Revolution: 81
Mission Duration: 5 days, 1 hour, 0 minutes, 8 seconds
Returned to KSC: August 21, 1989
Orbit Altitude: Classified
Orbit Inclination: 57 degrees
Miles Traveled: 2.1 million

STS-33 - November 22, 1989

STS-33 was the fifth space shuttle mission for the Department of Defense. Due to the nature of this mission, specific details are classified. The Space Shuttle Discovery lifted of from Pad A, Launch Complex 39, KSC, on 22 November 1989 at 7:23 p.m. EST.

Mission: Department of Defense
Space Shuttle: Discovery
Launch Pad: 39B
Launch Weight: Classified
Launched: November 22, 1989, 7:23:30 p.m. EST
Landing Site: Edwards Air Force Base, Calif.
Landing: November 27, 1989, 4:30:16 p.m. PST
Landing Weight: 194,282 pounds
Runway: 4
Rollout Distance: 7,764 feet
Rollout Time: 46 seconds
Revolution: 79
Mission Duration: 5 days, 0 hours, 6 minutes, 49 seconds
Returned to KSC: December 4, 1989
Orbit Altitude: 302 nautical miles
Orbit Inclination: 28.45 degrees
Miles Traveled: 2.1 million

Continued...

STS-36 - February 28, 1990

STS-36 was a space shuttle mission by NASA using the Space Shuttle Atlantis. It was the 34th mission, and carried a payload for the U.S. Department of Defense (believed to have been a Misty reconnaissance satellite). It was the sixth flight for Atlantis, the fourth night launch of the program, and the second night launch since Shuttle flights resumed in 1988.

Orbit altitude: 132 nautical miles (245 km)
Orbit inclination: 62.0 degrees

The sixth shuttle launch dedicated entirely to the Department of Defense, STS-36's payload is classified. STS-36 launched a single satellite, 1990-019B (USA-53), also described as AFP-731. Other objects (1990-019C-G) have appeared in orbit since its deployment.

It has been reported that USA-53 was an Advanced KH-11 photo-reconnaissance satellite that used an all-digital imaging system to return pictures. The KH-11 series is a digital imaging photo- reconnaissance satellite with both visual and infrared sensors. USA-53, nicknamed "Misty", was tracked briefly by amateur satellite observers in October and November 1990.

The launch trajectory was unique to this flight, and allowed the mission to reach an orbital inclination of 62°, the deployment orbit of its payload, while the normal maximum inclination for a shuttle flight is 57°. This so-called "dog-leg" trajectory saw Atlantis fly downrange on a normal launch azimuth, and then maneuver to a higher launch azimuth once out over the water. Although the maneuver resulted in a reduction of vehicle performance, it was the only way to reach the required deployment orbit from the Kennedy Space Center (originally, the flight had been slated to launch from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California, until the shuttle launch facilities there were mothballed in 1989). Flight rules that prohibit overflight of land were suspended, with the trajectory taking the vehicle over or near Cape Hatterras, Cape Cod, and parts of Canada. The payload was considered to be of importance to national security, hence the suspension of normal flight rules.

STS-38 - November 15, 1990

STS-38 was a space shuttle mission by NASA using the Space Shuttle Atlantis. It was the 37th shuttle mission, and carried a classified payload for the U.S. Department of Defense. Seventh mission dedicated to Department of Defense.


STS-39 - April 28, 1991

STS-39 was the first unclassified Department of Defense (DoD)-dedicated Space Shuttle mission. There had previously been seven Shuttle missions dedicated to the DoD, but those were considered classified and information about the operation or success of the payloads or experiments was not released. For STS-39, only the payload in the Multi-Purpose Experiment Canister (MPEC) was listed as classified.

Orbit altitude: 140 nautical miles (259 km)
Orbit inclination: 57.0 degrees

The crew was divided into two teams for around-the-clock operations. Among other activities, the crew made observations of the atmosphere and gas releases, Discovery’s orbital environment, and firings of the orbiter's engines, in wavelengths ranging from infrared to far ultraviolet. As part of the sophisticated experiments, five spacecraft or satellites were deployed from the payload bay, and one was retrieved later during the mission.

The high orbital inclination of the mission, 57 degrees with respect to the equator, allowed the crew to fly over most of Earth's large land masses and observe and record environmental resources and problem areas.

May 6, 1991, 2:55:35 p.m. EDT, Runway 15, Kennedy Space Center, FL. Rollout distance: 9,235 ft, rollout time: 56 s. Landing diverted to KSC because of unacceptably high winds at planned landing site, Edwards.

Landing weight: 211,512 lb (95,940 kg).

STS-39: The "Malarkey Milkshake"

From this position, the crew will remotely command the SPAS-II/IBSS to point its imaging systems at Discovery for the first plume observation. Once the experiments are properly trained on Discovery, one OMS engine will be fired for 20 seconds. The result of the burn will be to propel Discovery north, off of its previous orbital groundtrack, without changing the spacecraft's altitude. A burn with this lateral effect is known as "out-of-plane." In order to set up the next observation and remain aligned with the SPAS-II for precise rendezvous maneuvers, immediately following the burn, the crew will perform a "fast-flip" yaw maneuver, using RCS jets to turn Discovery's nose around 180 degrees to the south. A single-engine OMS braking burn will then be performed to stop Discovery's travel at a point less than a mile north of its previous groundtrack. Using RCS jets, the crew will return Discovery to its starting position, on its originalgroundtrack behind the SPAS-II. As Discovery drifts back to the starting point, a "fast-flip" reversal will turn the spacecraft's nose back to the north. This unique series of multiple OMS and RCS maneuvers has been dubbed the "Malarkey Milkshake" in recognition of John Malarkey, the JSC rendezvous guidance team leader who developed the back-and-forth sequence.


STS-44 - November 24, 1991

STS-53 - December 2, 1992

Ll backup material and photos is here

www.thelivingmoon.com...

[edit on 25-6-2008 by zorgon]

Seems they don't want to tell us what they brought back down

STS-51J - October 7, 1985

First flight of Space Shuttle Atlantis. First Department of Defense Space Shuttle flight in which the payload, orbital parameters and mission objectives remain classified. An Air Force crew flew the highly successful mission. Landed at Edwards Air Force Base, CA at 1:00 PM EDT on October 7. Flight duration was four days, one hour and 45 minutes.






.

I was at the landing of this one! The public was kept miles away to watch but I drove straight to the area where the families and Brass were, as I stood TOTALLY engrossed and cheering the fascinating landing and return, a well decorated Gentleman from the AF came up and gave me a gold mission pin... I have no idea what happened to it, but do you have a picture of it somewhere? I will remember it if I see it. If you doubt me, just ask mrwupy if he believes I could have 20 years ago...LOL

Originally posted by antar

Only ones I have are these







So if you were that close, just what DID they take off that ship?



What I am looking for might be in some barrels or something









[edit on 25-6-2008 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


Z, the pic of the first pin has a distinctive Star Trek look, does it not?

I'm growing encouraged! Captain picard is around here somewhere!!!

Originally posted by zorgon
You HAVE noticed that the cargo bay is haf empty many times before they show us pictures. Surely you don't expect us to believe they would send all that empty space...

See the loss of logic here?

zorgon,
Have you ever looked into how much it costs (per pound) to launch something on the shuttle? If your mission only has specific goals, why load the shuttle down with anything more than what you need to get the job done.

You are also aware of the specific reason(s) that the cargo bay was built to those dimensions, right?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Z, the pic of the first pin has a distinctive Star Trek look, does it not?

Hehe Just where do you think Roddenberry got his material from?

So does Space Command's symbol BTW

Badge...


Pin...
They have several denoting rank etc...

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Have you ever looked into how much it costs (per pound) to launch something on the shuttle? If your mission only has specific goals, why load the shuttle down with anything more than what you need to get the job done.

Cost? Oh yes I have... it IS difficult to get true cargo manefests though, even from the Russians... but with the missing 3.5 plus TRILLION from Pentagon budget and the fact that 25% of Defense Department spending is 'unaccounted for' and the fact that NASA is officially under the DoD abd has been for some time..

I do not see a problem with funding

But then YOU would know more about that

You are also aware of the specific reason(s) that the cargo bay was built to those dimensions, right?

Oh please DO enlighten us... save me pulling out all the patents

Originally posted by zorgon
Cost? Oh yes I have... it IS difficult to get true cargo manefests though, even from the Russians... but with the missing 3.5 plus TRILLION from Pentagon budget and the fact that 25% of Defense Department spending is 'unaccounted for' and the fact that NASA is officially under the DoD abd has been for some time..

What are you talking about? You can find out the specific info on all unclass payloads at the Nasa or manufacturers websites.

I do not see a problem with funding

Then can you pull up the allocations for fuel so that we can compare them?

But then YOU would know more about that

And your point is what?

You are also aware of the specific reason(s) that the cargo bay was built to those dimensions, right?

Oh please DO enlighten us... save me pulling out all the patents

Is that a yes or no?

reply to post by zorgon


OMG!!

So Roddenberry, who was in the Navy, then a Police Officer in the LAPD (My step-dad was an LAPD Officer) and finally found fame...and fortune. Well, not fame, that came later....but good work writing in Hollywood.

Zorgon, you DO know, of course, that the iconic logo that IS Star Trek, today, was only to represent the one ship, in Roddenberry's mind. The 'Enterprise'??

If you remember, Roddenberry imagined a fleet (a 'Starfleet') of 12 ships.

I can't remember all of the names....just a few....the 'Exeter', the 'Constellation', the 'Farragut'....the 'Intrepid'....and, of course, the 'Enterprise'.

I could access my Star Trek videos to include all of the twelve ships, but it's easily available online.

SO, Zorgon. Which came first?? The chicken, or the egg?

Meaning....what was the date of the mission patch you generously provided? I will go look, after I hit the *post reply* button.....

Edit...to add....the point of this thread, If I May jump in....it was started by the esteemed JL. Who I still have great respect for...even if I have disagreements on certain issues, it is the nature of ATS to encourage discussion, unless I'm mistaken.

Writing....it is hard. It has no ability to show the hints of body language, nuance, and such. We seem, sometimes....on a site such as ATS, or anywhere else, to agree with each other, but because of the limits of the keyboard, we seem to sound annoying, or worse. This is bad.....

I wish everyone could take a step back (in analogy) and a deep breath....and think very long and hard, before jumping on the keyboard.

This, I have learned. This is my advice. And, my advice, and about 3$ will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks!!!!!

[edit on 6/26/0808 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by COOL HAND
What are you talking about? You can find out the specific info on all unclass payloads at the Nasa or manufacturers websites.

I am not interested in the unclassified payloads... that is kinda the point of this thread

:shk:

Originally posted by zorgon
I am not interested in the unclassified payloads... that is kinda the point of this thread

The only advice I can give you is to pull up the fact sheet on the sats and see which ones that can fit in the payload bay for a GTO deployment. That might clear up some questions you have had.

BT

I though this thread was about a supposed secret station that the shuttle docks at? Are you willing to admit that you have now thread-jacked it?

Originally posted by zorgon

They don't 'rely' on them there are merely a convenience... got a little extra cargo space, might as well take something up

You HAVE noticed that the cargo bay is haf empty many times before they show us pictures. Surely you don't expect us to believe they would send all that empty space...

See the loss of logic here?

They don't necessarily have the thrust available to bring up more with them: just because a given piece of cargo doesn't fill up the entire bay doesn't mean it's light enough to pack more in there. There are important mass limitations.

Because it's THERE and has room to spare

You assume. In reality, it doesn't have enough mass budget left to bring the next big piece up at the same time even if it has volume left over.

Personally I think it meets other craft in orbit...THOSE are the ones you don't see and make the final run to the SSS

Pushing the question back. Why don't amateur observers EVER see the shuttle docked to something other than the ISS, be it a secret station or secret ship? There's nothing there in the orbit of ISS other than the shuttle, ISS, and the occasional cargo supply ship. Why don't amateurs ever spot the shuttle docked to something else for all that time? Lear's issue was the amount of time spent "docked to nothing" - I can personally vouch for it being docked to nothing during those times.

So when I watch the NASA feeds of the mission, what am I seeing? Docking is not the wham bam process seen in the movies, it takes about 6 hours. They don't just jump in a spacesuit either, they take up to three hours to depressurize their bodies to something like 4 PSI, then get in the suit, then go down to 2 PSI. It is a slow, slow process.

shrox

I wish I could have been here for this thread.

I missed out on so much.

I realise this is a really REALLY old thread but this is relevant to it. I could start another but then this thread would be lost. Anyway, in case anyone reads it....

I found this in a comment on here - my emphrasis. This guy just might be telling the truth - it is possible.

2107keith says:
April 6th, 2011 at 7:20 pm

@2107keith No!!!!!I’m not that lucky. Ha! Ha! I meant that I’ve seen alot of still classified experimental forms of propulsion. In the the Air Force I was a propulsion Specialist, and while at Edwards the Shuttle landed about 9 times 4 of those were seceret missions, almost got arrested when I pulled over to the side of the road to photoraph the shuttle one day after a seceret mission. I was extremely carefull of security, but they came out of nowhere.(Just got soiled shorts and a warning!)Ha