New British military tech

Originally posted by Harlequin
^^

you have little understanding of the modern world - please read more of the forum to understand the threats we face.


SKunk2

terrorists and 5.56? erm - it was designed for entropy based warfare in the 80`s - and being lighter could carry more rounds - and not terrorists

No the 5.56 was designed to take people out of the fight!! not kill them.
The situation today though is that we need a more powerful round to out right kill the target, due to the fact muslims leave their wounded to die and remove the body later.
Thus enter the 7.62.......again

Originally posted by fritz
This carrier business is so really getting on my nerves.

Firstly, they should have been laid down by now and should have been being fitted out right about now, with delivery for the 1st carrier fully operational by 2012.

It's not and they aren't! The hulls have not been laid down yet and that ex chancellor chappie wants to put the build on hold for another year or so.

Enough of that.

You have tweaked my curiosity Skunk2. Where did you get your info from about the SA80 being upgunned to 7.62mm, given the fact that H & K were just paid £95.6M to correct the faults on the L85A1?

Most western army's are looking into the 7.62 again!!! Simply because they have more stopping power(1 shot 1 kill). I have explained why already!!!
The L85A2 only needs a couple of mods to accomodate a larger round.

`take them out of the fight`

thats what entropy based warfare is... to remove enemy and tie up resources (and destroy moral and capabilty to make warfare).

Originally posted by fritz
Where I differ from everybody else, is in the debate about the 2 new carriers. I believe a few weeks ago, there was an announcement that the carriers would definately be built by BAe and Thales, but the actual date for the hulls being laid down, has still not been decided and indeed, has been delayed, (Does anybody know any differant?)

The fact that Naval Infrastructure needs to be upgraded before we can build, let alone operate, such vessels is a delaying factor. We don't currently have a drydock big enough at either of the main RN bases in the UK for these ships.

Also, the contract was only awarded less than a month ago, give 'em a chance, fritz!

Originally posted by fritz
As to the aircraft operating from these carriers, I cannot see for the life of me see why we cannot simply have arrester hooks on the Typhoon and deploy them with sturdier landing gear.

I know some of the guys as Dowty who work on the gear and they say it is so easy to upgrade the wheel assys for carrier ops. Sooo much cheaper as well!

Politics and money, fritz, Politics and money...

We're in bed with the Yanks, so pulling out will make them think twice about any future joint venture. Also, we've pumped a few billion squids into the project already..

Originally posted by fritz
As for comms, everybody I know absolutely loaths and detests the crappy little PRR and looks forward to BOWMAN - ish.

My dad is currently instructing REME tech bods on BOWMAN, as well as other new bit's o'kit. He's ex-REME himself, but earning a bit more now he's a "contractor".

Anyhoo, he says there are quite a few issues needing to be resolved before BOWMAN is anywhere near ready for service across the board. It has yet to be tested for safety in Challenger and other vehicles in case the frequency range set's off the ammo... Nice to see they thought about that when they designed it!

It puzzles me, the way the Government procures and spends a fortune buying something, then has to spend a fortune paying the company who fudged up in the first place to fix it! It's like going down to comet and buying a broken HDTV (that was sold as new and working) for £3000, then having to pay £4000 to get them to make it work.

As for manzoor, we need the carriers. I know your a Muslim and probably think we're going to go and kill your brothers, but the RN has maintained carriers since they were invented. To not have a couple knocking about would seriously weaken the UK.

[edit on 23/8/07 by stumason]

Originally posted by Harlequin
`take them out of the fight`

thats what entropy based warfare is... to remove enemy and tie up resources (and destroy moral and capabilty to make warfare).

Ahh! i was un-familiar with the term *punches self in face*
The move to a 7.62 is a good move imo, but the 5.56 is still a good round.
Hasn't a new US rifle got a 6.8mm round??

www.au.af.mil...

have a read - `modern` warfare is still attrition based - do unto them before they do unto us

its only slowly turning to the warfare model above

I think you take an extremely unrealistic view of the world we live in, manzoor.

On top of the obvious use aircraft carriers, have you ever thought of other potential uses?

Delivering humanitarian aid? Unload the planes and you have a giant container ship ready to go.

Aiding emergency evacuations (as we saw the Royal Navy involved in last summer when the situation between Israel and Lebanon sparked up) - the new aircraft carriers could transport British citizens, refugees etc. to places of safety (Britain has territories dotted across the globe, so it isn't too hard to find somewhere relatively close to house some evacuees whilst more permanent arrangements can be made).

I would argue that the Royal Navy needs these carriers given that we have a commitment to defend the fourteen British Overseas Territories should they fall under attack or require our assistance in some way. Ideally we'd go for at least three, so that we could have two out on operations and one undergoing maintainance.

Going back to the planes they're going to carry... would a navalised Typhoon be as good at air-to-ground missions as an F-35? I imagine it would be a fair bit cheaper given that we already have the Typhoon and can modify it accordingly. But if there's a big difference in quality, it might be wiser to wait. Anyone have any thoughts about this?

Re. the 5.56mm round

We are NOT switching back to 7.62mm in our rifles. I don't know how many of you have had to carry 330rds of 5.56mm in 40-45C heat for 8hrs at a time, but it is a complete killer. This is the BASIC scale of issue for an infantry soldier (6x30rd mags + 150rds in a bandolier). In the 'stan we regularly carry considerably more than this, and we use it too. Prior to the 5.56mm being introduced, the ammo scale was 150rds 7.62mm (5x20rd mags + 50rds bandolier). The weight of the rounds simply does not allow you to carry the same number of rounds, meaning that fire suppression would be less effective.

The 5.56mm was adopted for this reason. Anyone who tells you that 5.56mm does not kill has either been using it from a stupidly short barrel (i.e. M4) or has not actually seen any of the wounds inflicted by this round. Fired from a 20" barrel at ranges out to past 300m, the 5.56mm rips the guts of a target. There are too many stories floating aroung about the 7.62mm "blowing the limbs" off targets and "dropping people no matter where they're hit". Most of these come from people who have never seen someone hit by a bb gun never mind an SLR. 7.62 is a decent man stopper compared to the 5.56mm, but it is not the wonder round everyone makes it out to be. Still, there's few things more satisfying than the sound of a few GPMGs spitting out 7.62mm rounds at 750 rpm at some Taliban muppet who fancies a go at his 72 virgins.

The 6.8SPC looks like it might have some potential. Around twice the energy transfer than the 5.56mm but less weight than the 7.62mm. I'll hold out on the verdict until I see more evidence though.

[edit on 24-8-2007 by PaddyInf]