Round 1. Hikix v. Secret Titan: Planet of the WHATs?

(UPDATE: Absente has been removed from this debate. Hikix is taking his place. This change was made at approximately 2:30am Pacific, August 8th. Hikix's 24 hours began at that time). (SECOND UPDATE: I forgot to Hikix's account access to the debate forum. His 24 hours is being reset and will not begin until his status has changed).

The topic for this debate is "There have been non homo Sapien advanced civilizations on Earth in the past".

Hikix will be arguing the pro position and will open the debate.
Secret Titan will argue the con position.

Each debater will have one opening statement each. This will be followed by 3 alternating replies each. There will then be one closing statement each and no rebuttal.


A post may not be any longer than 5,500 characters, using the ATS character counter.
Closing posts may not be any longer than 3,500 characters.

This character limit includes all board code, links, etc.
Extra characters will be deleted from the end of your post.

Please notice that the character counter counts backwards. If for some reason your character counter won't let you post a full 5,500 characters in one post, make a second post to finish your 5,500, and then u2u me and let me know.


Editing is strictly forbidden. This means any editing, for any reason. Any edited posts will be completely deleted. This prevents cheating. If you make an honest mistake which needs fixing, you must U2U me. I will do a limited amount of editing for good cause. Please use spell check before you post.


Opening and closing statements must not contain any images, and must have no more than 3 references. Excluding both the opening and closing statements, only two images and no more than 5 references can be included for each post.


Responses should be made within 24 hours, if people are late with their replies, they run the risk of forfeiting their reply and possibly the debate. Limited grace periods may be allowed if I am notified in advance.


Judging will be done by a panel of anonymous judges. After each debate is completed it will be locked and the judges will begin making their decision. One of the debate forum moderators will then make a final post announcing the winner.


When this thread becomes unlocked you may proceed.



[edit on 8-8-2007 by The Vagabond]

[edit on 8-8-2007 by The Vagabond]

Oh man, what did i get myself into?!?!

Here we go:

The Egyptian Pyramids built some 4500 years ago are so impressive that
many wonder how it could have been possible for humans to build them with the technology they had at the time.

Some even go as far as to suggest that it is not possible for these structures to have been made by the labors of men, but were instead made by aliens.
The pyramids are so accurately aligned with the points of the compass that only aliens could have achieved this all those thousands of years ago. The positioning of the three Pyramids of Giza are exactly aligned with the position of the three stars in the belt of Orion, both in position and in size. While it is possible, it would create many difficulties for the Egyptians in terms of measuring huge distances. Not only this, but in fact, at the time that the pyramids were supposedly built (about 3000 BC), the stars that make up the Belt of Orion were not exactly at the correct angle to match up with the pyramids. If the location of the stars is traced back over thousands of years, the time at which the belt is exactly aligned with the pyramids is in fact 10,500 BC. A time when there were supposedly no civilized humans living on the earth.


Another fact to support this is, if you consider the Sphinx, a lion with a human head and then look at the size of the body, you can see that the body is perfectly proportioned for the head of a lion, not the human head. This human head looks tiny and silly sitting on top of the body. This is because the Sphinx was actually built in 10,500 BC, around the same time as the pyramids, with a real head of a lion. Evidence to support this is that there are signs of water erosion all over the Sphinx. The last time there was any water nearby, aside from the Nile is around 10,000 BC. Also, the constellation of Leo the Lion (thus closely related to the Sphinx), was in fact rising directly behind the sun in 10,500 BC.





The blocks are so heavy and the pyramid so tall only aliens could achieve this. In the period 2500 BC man did not have the tools or knowledge necessary to build the pyramids. You want to try to tell me that they got huge blocks of stones weighing tons hundreds of feet in the air by a pulley system?!? puhhhhhleeease!

Also preserved are records, etched in stone, supporting evidence not of this Earth. There are pictures shown of objects that look like flying saucers, and figures with antennas on their heads!

Aliens

UFO


Did you know that the height of the GIZA Pyramid (481 feet) is almost exactly 1/1,000,000,000 of the distance from the earth to the sun (480.6 billion feet)?

I'm sure that the exact distance to the sun was common knowledge 5000 years ago!


This object was found at Saqqara, in Egypt. This is one of the flying machines that we see portrayed in Ancient Egyptian paintings on walls and hieroglyphics:

gold flying machine

I will prove that there were NOT ancient non human civilizations. In order to help me, you must understand the definition of a civilization. A civilization is; n advanced state of intellectual, cultural, and material development in human society, marked by progress in the arts and sciences, the extensive use of record-keeping, including writing, and the appearance of complex political and social institutions. Now, if there were any non-human civilizations on Earth, there would surely be at least a little evidence. What happened to them if they were advanced? Did they just leave the planet and take any trace of them with?


Now, on to this. If you think that pyramids were not built by humans, you are incorrect. At the time they were built, humans had the technology needed to complete such a wonderous task. They didn't need to "lift" anything off the ground, and had plenty of tools that could get the job done, including copper pickaxes and chisels, granite hammers, dolerite and other hard stone tools.Plus they had thousands of workers building one pyramid. What about the positioning, you ask? I can get a young kid to draw the stars in orion's belt. In a few thousand years, people might think that was amazing. Humans are just good at copying what they see. Whether it is a few stars out of a constellation, or looking at how an animal stalks it's prey to catch it. We wouldn't have survived this long if we weren't intelligent.



Now, let's look at one of the earliest civilizations that was around the same time the pyramids were being built.

The rise of dynastic Egypt in the Nile Valley occurred with the unification of Upper and Lower Egypt in approximately 3200 BC, and ended at around 343 BC, at the start of the Achaemenid dynasty's control of Egypt. Evidence also indicates human habitation in the southwestern corner of Egypt, near the Sudan border, before 8000 BC. From around 7000 BC to 3000 BC the climate of the Sahara was much moister, offering good grazing land even in areas that are now very arid. Natural climate change after 3000 BC led to progressive arification of the region. Ancient Egypt gains credit for the tallest ancient pyramids and early forms of surgery, mathematics, and barge transport.

source


As for the aliens. Why would aliens build pyramids for humans to use? Where did they go, and why haven't they made themselves known.



One way or another, you either believe in evolution or creation. One way God created humans. The other, we share a common ancestor with primates. Either way, we have been allowed to evolve to be as intelligent as we are today.

Human intelligence. Without it, we would just be a bunch of !!!

hmmmmm you bring up quite a few good points, my worthy adversary. But I must say that you are the , my friend.

I believe i made my point concerning the Egyptian Pyramids, but what about descriptions in the Bible, written thousands of years ago telling of giants, serpents, and angels who once inhabited the earth, not to mention the "firery chariots" they zoomed around in! Could these be beings that once existed on earth but the people from back then had no better way of describing them?

The Lord Yhovah of the Old Testament, who became the Lord Jesus of the New Testament, is described as flying in thick clouds, swift clouds, bright clouds, dark clouds, white clouds, low clouds, great clouds, and fiery clouds.
There are platforms, vessels, whirling chariots of fire, sky thrones, fiery horses, cherubims, thick darkness, great fire, whirlwinds, fiery wheels, pavilions, dark waters, storms, sky dwellings, rolls, and sanctuaries.
Whether, or not, one believes these objects are actually flying vehicles that the God of the Bible lives in, appears with, travels in, and is considered the seat of his power is a matter of opinion.
The fact that they do not appear without him or his ambassadors, and that, in most major appearances, he and other beings are clearly
described as directly associated with these flying objects, is undeniable.

There are 362 verses describing natural and manmade
objects as vehicles in the Bible

Psalms
Yhovah Flies A Cherub On The Wind
18:10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.



There are also giant figures cut into the landscape all over the earth including the Cerne Abas Giant
www.historic-uk.com...
Alot of these figures were made thousands of years ago and could only been seen from the sky. Who made these? and why were they made if no humans could even see them?!?

According to the Bible Humans have been around for 6000-10000 years. That's based on studies by theologians who create time lines based on "begats" and the ages of people in the bible. Of course the exact number of years is a matter of opinion but nevertheless the Earth has been around for about 4,600,000,000 years according to geologists. Now considering how About 70 percent of the Earth's surface is water-covered, and how much changes the earth has gone through in that time... there could possibly be
hundreds of advanced civilizations that either left earth to go somewhere nicer, or simply died away and their only remnense is covered by thousands of miles of water.

Ah yes, the bible. The only thing I will say about the bible is that it was written by men. Don't take everything they say and think it as the truth.

Originally posted by hikix
Could these be beings that once existed on earth but the people from back then had no better way of describing them?

Remember, the bible was originally written in another language. When it was translated into english, many of the words were changed. A "great man" would have been translated into a giant. The fact is, unless you have an original bible and can read it, you cannot tell what the writer was trying to say.There have been many humans on earth that would be considered as giants. Robert Pershing Wadlow was the tallest recorded man. At almost 9 feet tall, I can see how people would consider such a man a giant. Isn't it possible that there was the occasional "giant" back then too?

Another point about the bible; let's look at some of the many factual errors in it.

(1) The Bible [16] implies that the earth is flat or that all of its inhabited surface can be seen at one time from a single vantage point, which conflicts with what we know. Related to this is the Bible's frequent reference to "ascending to heaven", [17] which implies that the Biblical authors erroneously thought of the earth as a flat plane beneath a celestial dome.
(2) The Bible (1Ch 16:30; Ps 93:1, 96:10, 104:5) declares that the earth does not move, whereas we know for a fact that the earth does move.
(3) The age of the earth according to the Bible (computed from Ge 1, 5, & 11 and Lu 3:23-38) cannot be much over 6000 years, yet scientists have determined that the earth is 4.6 billion years old. The evidence that it is way over 6000 years old comes from many different fields and is overwhelming.
(4) According to Ge 1:16-17, the earth was already in existence when the sun and the stars were created, yet scientists have determined that the stars existed billions of years before the earth and that the sun also existed prior to the earth (which revolves around the sun).

source
The link show's so many contradictions about the bible, I wouldn't believe much of it. I'm sure there is some fact in it, but most is taken out of context. The bible never states anything about any civilizations on earth that were not populated by humans.

There are also giant figures cut into the landscape all over the earth including the Cerne Abas Giant
www.historic-uk.com...
Alot of these figures were made thousands of years ago and could only been seen from the sky. Who made these? and why were they made if no humans could even see them?!?

Humans could see them, and made them, just as they did the pyramids, and the "heads" on Easter Island. If we want something bad enough we will achieve it, just as we achieved flight. Plus these figures can be seen from hilltops, or mountain tops.

Still, there is no record of any civilization that was non-human. Yes, there have been civilizations that have "sunk" under the water. They were only humans too. One visitor from another planet can't be described as a civilization. Even in mountain towns, there are dwellings "above the clouds" as an earlier human would describe them.

24 hours have passed. Hikix forfeits this reply. Secret Titan may proceed.

Even though humans haven't been around as long as Earth, we surely would have found some sort of proof that these non human civilizations existed. Machu Picchu was forgotten for centuries by the outside world. But, throught human interest, it was found. There are man stories of lost cities, and temples. These places were all built by humans, and inhabited by humans.

Hikix has informed me that unforunate developments in his personal life will make it impossible for him to continue this debate. Let us wish our fellow debater well and hope that we see him here in the future.

Secret Titan will advance to the next round by default.