I am also a number in the System

I am not sure why this issue is bothering me as much as it is. Perhaps it is the awareness of it?

I do not even know how to define my problem.

My problem started the moment I was born. The Hospital and my Parents registered my birth. My Parents officially registered my name, sex, place and date of birth, their address and occupations. Hospital records verified the event. The registration of my birth was now legally in the Government's custody and I was allocated a registration number.

When I was a week old the Hospital carried out a 'heal prick test' to screen my blood for a range of serious diseases. I was too young to know it at that time, but I was registered with the NHS and allocated another number.

My Mother took me to the Doctor soon after to be immunised. The Doctor informed the Registrar General of NHS, England of the immunisation schedule. My Mother would be sent reminders of when my next immunisation was due.

At the age of two my Parents decided to emmigrate to Australia.
My Mother was issued a passport and a number was issued along with it.
I, along with my Siblings were included in my Mother's passport.

When we arrived in Australia, my Parent's had to re-register with the Australian Government. All of the numbers checked out ok, thank goodness! My Parent's were allocated social security numbers. Information about me was included with my Parents at that time. I didn't know it then, but I had a social security number too from the moment they registered.

When my Parent's applied for housing, they were allocated another number within that Government Department. They were issued with a three bedroom Government House because the Housing Authority had determined with the information that my Parent's provided that, that was what they needed.

Soon after we moved into the Government Housing, my Parent's separated and well, my Dad got into a little bit of trouble. Well, a lot of trouble with the police. My Father was allocated another number on their system. Amazing though, he just disappeared from the system and no one knew where to find him at that time. Even with all those numbers!

At the age of four I went to a Government Public School because that is what all four year olds did at that time. I was given another number. Oh, one day my Dad came to visit me at School on the sly and the police came and intervened. Wow... how did the police know he was at the school?

After Primary School, I went to High School because that is what all kids have to do. Funny though, the High School needed information from the Primary School before they would accept me. The Primary School forwarded the High School evidence that I had completed year 7 and I was allowed to start year 8. My Mum had to apply to the Government for some money so we could go to School. In year 8, all I had to do was give the High School this card with a number on it and they gave me the books I needed for the year. They gave me another number.

I left School when I was legally allowed to and got a job the very same day. I didn't know why, but I had to apply to the Government for a Tax File Number, so I did. I was told it was very important. I left home and had to apply for my own Medicare card. Without it, I couldn't see a Doctor. So, of course, I applied for one.

When I was 21 years of age I had a party. I drunk with my friends a bottle of tequila and because it was my birthday, I ate the worm. I was very drunk and ended up getting arrested for being drunk and disorderly, resisting arrest, abusive language. I have no memory of the event. It was such a surprise. Well, the police recorded the event and gave me another number. They also took my fingerprints. I don't know why they did that.

continued...

I vaguely remember the policeman asking me to produce identification. When I couldn’t’ produce it, he asked me to leave ‘my 21st birthday party’ at the Hotel. I didn’t want to leave. I had to go to court too and pay a lot of money for that moment. I am sure I have another number there too.

When I was 21 and a half I fell pregnant to a married liar. He didn’t want to sign my Daughter’s Birth Certificate. I found a Solicitor who then ordered Paternity Tests. I, along with my Daughter had to go to the Hospital to have our blood taken to extract our DNA to test paternity. The liar was also ordered to do the same. I didn’t know it then, but our DNA was to be kept on a Federal Register. The liar now legally has to pay maintenance. Just from that test.

The system now has my fingerprints and DNA and my Daughter’s DNA. Wow, I hope all of that information is in a safe place

When I was 25 I decided to get my licence. The Department wanted to know a lot of information. They asked me if I was receiving a Government benefit. I could get it cheaper if I had this number. But I didn’t have that number so I had to pay the full cost. They took my photo and I was given a card and it had all my details on it and of course, a number. I also said on my licence that I would be an organ donor.

I then decided to buy a car. I bought one and then I had to register it. The registration form also wanted to know a lot of information Who did I buy the car from? How much did I pay for it? What make the car was,? What was the engine number? What was my licence number? I answered all of the questions and they gave me a registration number. I could legally drive on the road!! Woo hoo! Wonderful feeling but one day I was driving a little too fast and the Department knew because I went through a speed camera and they found me when they saw the registration number of my car. I went to the mailbox and in it was a fine. I had to pay this money for speeding. The letter also said, if I didn’t pay the fine within a certain amount of time, I wouldn’t be able to register my car again. It may also infringe upon my insurance. So I paid it pronto.

The Licensing Department also sent me a letter to advise me that I had lost 3 points off my licence because of the infringement. It is wonderful how all the Government Departments work together! I may not have ever known I had lost the points.

My Mum said I needed to insure the car, so of course, I did. I went to this insurance provider and applied for insurance. They also wanted to know a lot of information. Had I had insurance before? Had I been in an accident? Did I have a criminal record? I answered all the questions and waited for them to approve my application. It was very expensive to get insurance when you first get a licence so I chose to pay the installment every month directly out of my bank account. I had to provide them with my bank account number. They approved my application and took the installment out every month.

I went to work one day and my Boss said, the wages were to be paid differently. Instead of receiving cash, it would be put directly into my bank account. I needed to give my Employer my bank details and so I did.

When I went to the bank to withdraw my wages, the Bank charged me a $2.00 fee at the end of the month each time I withdrew money at the counter. The bank said I could avoid that if I had a card. So I got a card. The Bank also said I needed to provide them with my Tax File Number, so I gave it to them.

One day, I received a letter from the Australian Tax Office. They claimed that I had not declared interest I earnt from my bank account.. I was very surprised because I had forgotten about this. I then spoke to the office and made the adjustment and paid the tax accordingly. How did they know about that? Oh, the Bank must have provided them with this information.

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[edit on 5-8-2007 by Thurisaz]

Just as well they have my Tax File Number!

The Bank offered me a credit card. How could I refuse a $5,000 gift? So, I filled out the paperwork, gave them whatever information they required and went shopping. I decided to book a holiday for me and my family so I rang up an airline and they said I could save 15% if I booked online with my credit card. So I did. I typed in the url and followed the prompts. I got another number for doing it this way. I even earn points so I can buy things for nothing. But, you have to have a credit card to do this. They kept all of my information and it was just so much easier. Saves time too. Good having a credit card and the number.

When I was 30 I left my Husband and applied for Government assistance. They gave me a number and even gave my kids a number. They also gave me another number for a child care rebate. They said though, if I was not working, then I could only use the number to claim 10 hours of child care per week. The Childcare agency would need this number. So, I gave the Childcare Agency the number.

I decided to study in the area of my work so I applied to the University and I was accepted. I then needed more childcare because I was studying. I had to provide to the Government, proof of where I was studying, what I was studying, and the study load. I am so pleased they granted me a further rebate. Oh the University also gave me a number and they needed my Tax File Number too.

Oh, this was a bit of a kuffuffle! You see my Son was not allowed to have any further immunizations because of a severe reaction with the 18 month shot.
When I booked him into the childcare centre, they required the immunization schedule and when I couldn’t provide the complete schedule, they wouldn’t allow my Son to go there. The Government also wanted to know why my Son hadn’t had all of his immunizations, so I had to go to our Doctor relying on the medicare number and get a letter to state why. The Government said that if my Son didn’t complete the immunizations without a sufficient exemption, medical reason, then the Government assistance/rebates would stop.

Just as well I could provide to the Government all they required.

It is just as well I have a Bank account number so I can receive my wages every week.

I could go on and on and provide examples of being in the system.

None of us are free. We are born into the system and we are held very tightly within it. We have to abide by a set of rules, requirements and there is no escape.

I am not a number! I AM A FREE MAN!

Sorry, I couldn't resist

I do agree we are born into a system that holds us in place with long sequences of digits and legislation and whatnot. I don't agree, however, that there is no escape. But what I will say though, is that at present it can be advantageous in some situations to be in the system, means to an end, like.

My numbers don't trouble me as much as they used to because I've come to the realization that there isn't much attatched to those numbers that is of consequence.

They don't control anything that I can't get elsewhere if I choose.

And they don't know what they don't know. Some people think that you could read my records and have me all figured out. I think it would be a lot of fun to watch them try, especially if I was allowed to sit across the room and mock them for their confusion.

My school records say that I'm smart but not how I think. My disciplinary record there says that I know how to fight but not what I'll fight for.

My bookstore records say that I bought a bible and concordance but not that I was an athiest when I did so. They say that I bought The Art of War as well as Warfighting but not what's in the notes I took on those. They don't know what passages I highlighted in Leaves of Grass or Walden either.

They know that I got a marriage license in 2001, but not why I didn't get married, much less could they guess that I just might get around to marrying that girl still.


I suppose I'd have a harder time with it if there was something important or bad attatched to my numbers. My drivers license number says that I'm a good driver. My credit report says that you'll probably get the money late but you will get it. My bank account says that you're definately not getting the money this month, but if the past is any indication, you'd be well advised to try again in October.
The DOJ has my fingerprints, but only because I was a licensed security officer and then a Marine. There's nothing bad tied to those prints, and if I was going to do something bad I'd probably wear gloves- as a matter of fact, I make it a rule not to associate with people who wear gloves for that reason (which is why I haven't been on a plane since 9/11, even though I'm not afraid of terrorists).


Also, I think you'd find that you'd have less numbers if you did less business with the government. Please read nothing into that. The help is there legally for a good reason and that's fine. I'm just saying that we can't have our cake and eat it too. We decided, as a society, that we wanted certain securities from our government, and it's a fact of life that privilege and accountability go hand in hand. In many cases we have the choice to not partake of those opportunities if we do not desire the intrusions on our lives that necessarily accompany them.

In fact, a person can render all of their numbers dead.
I know someone who did it, for reasons I won't discuss.

He had no legal residence, no drivers license, and no job. He had a lot of old numbers, but they were all dead ends. They could not trace him.
And this guy wasn't a bum. He was dirt poor, but he supported himself.

I don't think that I would take it to that extreme without a real strong reason, because it absolutely would suck- the benefits of the society that requires all of these numbers are appreciable. But hey, people got by and were even happy without them in the past, and it is an option if you like.

Originally posted by The Vagabond

He had no legal residence, no drivers license, and no job. He had a lot of old numbers, but they were all dead ends. They could not trace him.
And this guy wasn't a bum. He was dirt poor, but he supported himself.

wow, I can't see how it could be done. If he supports himself, he would still have to lodge a tax assessment? That tax assessment would then trace him to an address and how he supports himself.

I am not saying I want to get out of the system. It just frustrates me that I have little choices. Regarding my wages. I have to have them put into a Bank. If I didn't accept this process, I couldn't work.

How would any of us survive without a Banking Institution?

And we have to have a job? If you don't have a job, then you have to put your name down somewhere on the Government system for benefits.
No thanks. And if your not working or working being paid cash. You are still on the system and when the end of the financial year comes, if you didn't lodge a tax return, then they would want to know why.

There is no privacy at all anymore and I also think we have very few free choices and it is gettting worse.

Originally posted by Thurisaz
wow, I can't see how it could be done. If he supports himself, he would still have to lodge a tax assessment? That tax assessment would then trace him to an address and how he supports himself.

Legally, he should have filed taxes because he had barter income, however because he didn't have a regular job, nobody filed W-2s on him, which effectively means that as far as the government was concerned he had no income.

If they'd known where he was they could have tried to arrest him for tax evasion, but the whole point of what he was doing was that he didn't want the government to know where he was.

There was literally no documentation to give evidence to the fact that this man was alive during that time. As a matter of fact, if he had continued doing that for long enough, he could have been delcared legally dead. (unfortunately he was a man of many vices and got himself arrested for something unrelated to taxes etc, and after that his living arrangements changed).

I am not saying I want to get out of the system. It just frustrates me that I have little choices. Regarding my wages. I have to have them put into a Bank. If I didn't accept this process, I couldn't work.

I'm not familiar with your nation and the company you work for, but living in America, specifically the state of California, mostly for construction companies but also for a college and a couple of security firms, I have always had the option at my discretion, of presenting identification and my paycheck either at a bank or at a check cashing establishment, and recieving hard currency which would prevent my transactions from being recorded, although the cashing of my check would still be recorded.

My brother actually does deal exclusively in cash- he feels that he cannot trust banks because of a series of discrepencies in his balance which were never explained.

And we have to have a job? If you don't have a job, then you have to put your name down somewhere on the Government system for benefits.

That's the easiest way to live, far and away, but i've known a man who lived without a job or the dole. I don't think that man ever applied himself to anything other than fishing more than one day a week.

True enough they were waiting for his return at the end of the year, but his return didn't come, and they wanted to send the police to go get him I'm sure, for more reasons than one, but the fly in the buttermilk was that the police didn't have any clue where that man lived.


There are various levels of entanglement in the system that a person can choose.

For example, suppose I wanted more privacy, but wasn't willing to break the law in any way shape or form, and didn't completely want out of the system.

No sweat.
I'd start using a permanent address for my documents that I didn't live at full time and get a PO Box for my mail.
I'd get rid of my bank account and I would handle all of my transactions in cash.
I'd get rid of my cellular phone and I'd start using public phones.
I'd rent a room from or a guest host from a home owner and I wouldn't use that address for any purpose.
I'd save up a little money, then I'd quit my job, and using my savings I would make it my business to buy, repair, and resale the various things that I am more or less qualified to repair, particularly vehicles.

And just like that, unless someone was assigned to surveil me in real time, it would be impossible to know who i was talking with on the phone, where to find me at home, where to find me at work, and where i spend my money or how.

It would be possible to find out how much I make (although they would be dependent on my honesty in that regard), possible to make an educated guess at what i do for a living, possible to know what vehicle I owned, possible to identify me if i was in your custody, etc. But for the most part I would be a pretty hard guy to bother, particularly if I made it a point to not do anything wrong.

There are a lot of people in America who live that way. An appreciable number of them are into one disreputable thing or another, but it is easily and widely done, and equally open to a good person.

There are only two real barriers to annonymity if a person desires it: the first is self-sufficience- a person needs a skill that need not be marketed to a corporate employer, either to support himself directly or to engage in commerce on his own behalf. The second is laws that are virtually impossible to enforce anyway.

I honestly believe that with a few months of careful preparation for the lifestyle changes that will be necessary, any person could pretty much vanish from the face of the Earth, providing that that person was not the subject of an intensive manhunt at the beginning.

Legally, he should have filed taxes because he had barter income

This is so attractive to me. It is something I daydream about. Really.
How can it be tax evasion if you don't earn any money? It can't be.
It would be considered a state of anarchy. If everyone were to live like that, perhaps society would crash? I think regionally, it could work, but globally, it would present big problems and I don't feel too many people would embrace it. What would they do without money?

If they'd known where he was they could have tried to arrest him for tax evasion

I would love to loosen the shackles and live free, I would even document it and I really would love to be arrested for tax evasion. Have a Court of law decide on this very matter. Tax evasion and the Barter System. It might actually set a new precedence for Individual Rights?

I have thought about this so many times and considered that some may think that way of living is just free loading. Like you are not contributing in a meaningful way to society. I don't agree with that. I think there are many many ways of contributing in meaningful way without money.

example: I considered this scenario. Imagine an old lady who had a hip replacement and was sent home from hospital and needed home care. My old neighbor experienced this. I did her shopping, cleaned her house and it was really sad because she ended up in a nursing home. Now, if I had gone in to help her as soon as she was discharged, she may have recovered completely... (she fell soon after the operation) She had bugger all family. I figured if I had looked after her for a month and did her cleaning, cooking, household duties, this would have saved the State a lot of money. She would not have needed State Services at all. So, if that were a barter arrangement, like a months lodgings for 24/7 care... that is a very good exchange, for all people.

I have always had the option at my discretion, of presenting identification and my paycheck either at a bank or at a check cashing establishment, and recieving hard currency which would prevent my transactions from being recorded, although the cashing of my check would still be recorded.

In Australia, you need to provide your banking details to the Employer. Each week, you are given an envelope and in it is a slip of paper that shows the breakup of your wages. The wages are not in the envelope, they are in your bank. The thing I feel is most unethical, is that I then have to pay the bank to receive my money. Perhaps it creates jobs in society, but look at the amount of profit the banks are making. It is sickening.

There maybe some small firms still paying wages in cash, but it is very rare.

My brother actually does deal exclusively in cash- he feels that he cannot trust banks

Does he have any positions vacant? lol




[edit on 7-8-2007 by Thurisaz]

I'd start using a permanent address for my documents that I didn't live at full time and get a PO Box for my mail.
I'd get rid of my bank account and I would handle all of my transactions in cash.
I'd get rid of my cellular phone and I'd start using public phones.
I'd rent a room from or a guest host from a home owner and I wouldn't use that address for any purpose.
I'd save up a little money, then I'd quit my job, and using my savings I would make it my business to buy, repair, and resale the various things that I am more or less qualified to repair, particularly vehicles.

I could see myself doing this one day. At the moment, I have my children and responsibllities so it wouldn't be fair for them. I have to have a residence, stability for my kids. Then I wonder what it would be like for them when they are older having a Mum who is out of the system.
It would be hard for them. I guess I will settle for the farm dream. Buying a block of land in the middle of nowhere and being self sufficient.

Oh that is I feel something I could do and it would be acceptable to my family and even society?

I had so many issues trying to post and edit this.

Well, perhaps I am eating my hat with this post but did want to add this.

The other day I had to call OOO which is the Australian Emergency number...like 911. Now I placed the call from my mobile. From that call, the operator knew my name and address. All I had to do was confirm the details. "Where is the emergency?" = "at my residence" was all I said.

So, in this instance, being a number in the system has its advantages.

OK it is great for emergencies... but how?? is it possible that my info comes straight up on their system? How incredibly efficient

Now I have noticed that where-ever I go, my mobile phone coverage changes to the area that I am in. Imagine if the powers that be could track you by your mobile?

? AND you can't have a mobile phone or any utility without providing information that verifies who you are and where you live... eg: licence number etc.

We have no choice at all... we are in the system, it controls us whether we like it or not!

Originally posted by ThurisazNow I have noticed that where-ever I go, my mobile phone coverage changes to the area that I am in. Imagine if the powers that be could track you by your mobile?

Where have you been?

There have been a number of high profile cases in which this has been the very means by which suspects have been located and followed in real time.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Where have you been?

Yes, I know, I am pathetic that this issue has not occurred to me since the emergency call. Now, I check the signal all the time. lol -> now slightly paranoid?

There have been a number of high profile cases in which this has been the very means by which suspects have been located and followed in real time.

I realise this would be a good way to catch criminals. It would have its advantages.

It just leaves a sour taste in my mouth...