MYSTERY CLONE BABY DUE IN JANUARY

i dunno i'm just in general against cloning

Yea! Science is here, and it is good. Think about it, need a kidney transplant, you have a donor, need a liver, same thing. Do you know how much people pay for organs? Think what would happen if the organs were made for the person who needed it, not on a waiting list that seems to get longer when someone with a few more bucks pays a little more to make it up on the list.

I know, they human, soul, a living thing, blah blah blah. Who cares, they can also be used for medical studies. You get someone who gets alhiemerzes(sp?) you then clone them, wait a long time, I know, but still, anyways, and study that being, figure out how, what, and when it starts. Figure out what causes it so they can cure it. Or need a way to test new drugs without harming the general public, if you have clones of the general range of people the drug is made to cure, use them to find any side effects.

Cloning is a great advance that if taken in the right hands can bring about the annialation of many genetic and other diseases. Of course, you listen to religous folks, it, along with just about everything else medical and science, should be banned and we should be taken back to the days of middle age of 15 and the common cold killing millions.

Anyways, go cloning, boo religons, well, massed religons. For god wrote ten commandments for every religon, but never wrote a book.

JamesTL,

Just for the record....since it really bother's me...Moses wrote the ten commandment's...not god. He went up those mountain's alone and came back with them. He was the leader so to speak, of those people during exodus. He needed some way to control them.... Think about it...

Toltec,

I understand your point of view.... But if indivualism makes a soul, then what is the soul made from in itself? Just experiance's? From our own personalities? How do these bear birth to a semi-physical object called the soul? Not only that....but now we have the problem of being born without asoul....since we haven't experianced the world yet while we're in the womb...

God wrote the 10 commandments (twice), Moses chronicled the commandments and the event. But I appreciate you correcting that point with JTL; I've pretty much given up on him.

Toltec, I got the scale comment, and I thought it was pretty funny. I hope it was meant to be a joke, I don't want to laugh at a real idea.

We were created in God's image, a triunal man. We have a body, a soul and a spirit. Couldn't it be assumed that is what seperates us from the beast, allows us abstract thought and intelligent reasoning (well, most of us)? Not only could Bach create awe-inspiring music, but we can listen to and be moved by it. We can conceptualize a reciprocating engince and, given a little more time, can design a turbin jet engine. Chimps, as smart and as dexterious as they are, can't do anything compared to us, yet they are very intelligent little creatures.

BTW, JamesG, why would Moses need to control the people in such a manner? Those laws that he brought down weren't civil crowd control measures and there were other beliefs as evident as they were setting Aaron up to build a new idol while Moses was gone, remember? If it were population control soley, it'd be easier to run with the publics more desired religion and create around that, I'd think.

TC,

All I know, is he went up alone and came down alone...He claimed the commandment's were written by god....no one but him saw this happen though.... Falls under thesame problem of man being the true author of the bible...

They both claim something...god wrote it...but really they were written by men who only claim the works come from god....

I also found something very interesting....I need to look into it more though....

Anywho.... Does anyone know if the hebrew's came from the sumerians?

It was half a joke Thomas so feel free to let go a chuckle.

James can something that is "corporeal" express itself as such but not be within our sphere of orientation. This is to say from our vantage point we understand only the wave aspect (of the soul) and therefore we do not attribute solidity to it. The particle aspect does in fact exist but it is related to reality on another scale?

i have found "no" one saying cloning is an outrage.

Don't you understand that god created all individuals the same?

And if he wanted twins he creats twins or would creat them as he has done ((((((((naturally)))))).

man scientists who clone or desire to clone are not living by his teachings. You (caannot) creat
a being baised on how ((You)) want him created.

man caannot creat a human out of another human, if he does then that huma is not from god.

Infact i have a prophecy about men that will creat clones whom god talks about as (lifeless) beings, man made ccreations, not of him.


basically playing god on creating humans out of another human is wrong.


Christians who agree with cloning are not christians.

We are (individual) souls who are all different. God creats man, not man. And we
have no right to do such a thing.


peace.

[Edited on 2-12-2002 by Truth]

"Truth" cloning is not creating its taking the genetic information of one person and making a copy. I did notice you presented no biblical reference's to support your statement. So where exactly is it in the Bible that states we cannot make copies of ourselves?

Personally am not really big on the subject either, but mostly that is because of the way our world is organized. We really do not need clones to make organs, stem cell research will one day find the means to make human organs from the adult doner/patients cells.

The real problem with cloning is how they will be treated. The misconceptions that exist in relation to the extent, human physiology allows for survival (even after what is often called death). To me the soul is something that could very well have a physiological basis, but portend to an aspect of human physiology that is Quantum based (just as the immune system is molecule based). So if you clone a human he or she has a soul.

A worst case scenario in relation to cloning, is that one day mankind will develop the ability to perform Brain Transplants. So an individual could clone himself at a very young age and when he is old transfer his brain to the cloned compatible body. This type of scenario could potentially become legitimized, if man learns how to develop
a human clone. In which all its parts are present with exception of a human nervous
system. Since the central nervous system is responsible for maintaining the body, an alternative way to do so would have to be devised which is not sentient.

Fact of the matter is the above scenario is so far away from being realized it qualifies as Science Fiction. As well by the time we learned to do things like this it will be easier and probably preferable to use mechanical devises. There are other scenarios like building an army of clones (as popularized in a recent movie) truth is "Truth" it is possible that such a thing could be considered. The problem with this is, just because the donor you chose is loyal to the bitter end. does not guarantee its clones will take the same position .That a human clone is being attempted probably means that we have cloned just about every animal needed to draw a conclusion. The question being would a human clone be capable of independent thought.

And the answer is in all probability Yes.

What are your thoughts?

Truth,

If god didn't want man to clone or 'play god', he wouldn't have given us the abilities to do so....Soooo obviously, he wanted this done, since it is being done....

Just like, if he didn't want evil in his universe...he wouldn't have created it.... Your god is a highly illogical god of creation and destruction, that dislikes many things. Yet, with all the power's of the universe at his disposal, he seems very very incapable of combating the thing's he dislike's... Why? He is a human... A man. A creation of your very mind to explain thing's which you have no intrest in learning about.

Go.... Get.... A.... Clue....

truth cudn;t have said it better

F16 you can only play God when you try to pass judgment on his intent. Like if you clone a human and decide he is soulless.

Poor kid not even born yet and people are calling him names

I have a question, how would you feel "Truth" if we developed the Technology to take the blood samples from the Shroud of Turin and make a clone (presumably of Jesus). Would he then be a soulless man made creation? This given as well that the Clone can do all the miracles that Jesus did?

What are your thoughts?

PS: Don't forget my other
question

[Edited on 3-12-2002 by Toltec]

Originally posted by JamesG
TC,

All I know, is he went up alone and came down alone...He claimed the commandment's were written by god....no one but him saw this happen though.... Falls under thesame problem of man being the true author of the bible...

They both claim something...god wrote it...but really they were written by men who only claim the works come from god....

I also found something very interesting....I need to look into it more though....

Anywho.... Does anyone know if the hebrew's came from the sumerians?

I understand where you are coming from, James. I never said skepticism didn't make sense!!

Just clone the damn thing. It might end up being better than the rest of us