Vegans have upper hand? Seriously?

I have found an article that states the benefits of being a vegetarian over eating meat. It seems that this greatly reduces the risk of cancer, and cardiovascular problems. Here is a link to the article----> Veggie info.....

One way or the other, we are equipped to eat and digest meat. I (and many other people) see it as a part of my diet that will always be. Kind of difficult to argue with nature, but I still find this interesting. To me, PETA is roughly translated to People Eating Tasty Animals. mmmm....steak.

Originally posted by venom79x
To me, PETA is roughly translated to People Eating Tasty Animals. mmmm....steak.

Are you suggesting the PETA is a conspiracy organization which secretly eats meat on a massive scale?... or did you just want to make your bias known?

If I comment on this article , and have a positive slant towards vegetarianism , would it be a lost cause?

Originally posted by venom79x
One way or the other, we are equipped to eat and digest meat.

Actually really we're not.

We have just been conditioned to eat meat basically so someone else can make money. It takes more protein to feed a cow than what we get back from that cow. Wasteful but they make more money from the cow than the grain it’s fed.

Yes we are capable of eating meat, but really it is poison to our bodies. Veggies have much better endurance than meat eaters...

Longevity & health: There's a direct correlation between the amount of meat you eat and the amount of illness you suffer. Meat is poison to us. It's the primary reason we get heart disease, cancer, diabetes, osteoporosis, and every other major degenerative disease. If eating meat were natural, it wouldn't make us so sick.

A big assumption is that we have always eaten meat so it must be normal; well that's just a myth. Hunting and eating meat is a pretty recent development...

John A. McDougall, M.D., perhaps the most knowledgeable expert on the relationship between diet and disease, asserts that our early ancestors from at least four million years ago followed diets almost exclusively of plant foods. Many other scientists believe that early humans were largely vegetarian. (See articles by David Popovich and Derek Wall.)

Comparing humans to other animals...

Humans have no claws. We have millions of pores, carnivores have none.
We have no sharp pointed front teeth. We have flat molars to crush and grind vegetable matter. We have well developed salivary glands, carnivores have small salivary glands. Carnis have acidic saliva, we have alkaline saliva. Carnis have 20x stronger stomach acid than us, for digesting meat quickly. Our intestine is several times our body length; carnis is only 3x their body length for quick digestion of meat.

Source

Then there are the economic problems of eating meat. The cost of an eight ounce steak will fill 45-50 bowls with cereal grains. Might not be appealing to you but for the millions starving it would be a life saver.

The 4.8 pounds of grain fed to cattle to produce one pound of beef for human beings represents a colossal waste of resources in a world still teeming with people who suffer from profound hunger and malnutrition...

...According to the British group Vegfam, a 10-acre farm can support 60 people growing soybeans, 24 people growing wheat, 10 people growing corn and only two producing cattle. Britain—with 56 million people—could support a population of 250 million on an all-vegetable diet. Because 90 percent of U.S. and European meat eaters’ grain consumption is indirect (first being fed to animals), westerners each consume 2,000 pounds of grain a year. Most grain in underdeveloped countries is consumed directly…

Pollution and destruction of the environment is also a big problem of the meat industry…

Energy-intensive U.S. factory farms generated 1.4 billion tons of animal waste in 1996, which, the Environmental Protection Agency reports, pollutes American waterways more than all other industrial sources combined. Meat production has also been linked to severe erosion of billions of acres of once-productive farmland and to the destruction of rainforests…

Source

Vegetarianism is not a new thing either…

Vegetarianism is not a new phenomenon. The ancient Greek philosopher Pythagoras was vegetarian, and until the mid-19th century, people who abstained from meat were known as “Pythagoreans.” Famous followers of Pythagoras’ diet included Leonardo da Vinci, Benjamin Franklin, George Bernard Shaw and Albert Einstein. The word “vegetarian” was coined in 1847 to give a name to what was then a tiny movement in England.

A veggie diet can be just as tasteful and exciting to eat as meat dishes, and your body will thank you for it...

Nah, I believe that carnivorism was a major factor in human evolution:

www.technologyreview.com...

Actually we evolved our great big brains because we stopped being largely vegetarian, moved out of the trees and began to eat meat. If it wasn't for our ancestors eating meat we'd no doubt be having this conversation via poo flinging, rather than on the internet.

It's the farming methods that are the problem, not the meat.

I prefer to eat higher on the food chain myself. Let the bovines, pigs, chickens and ostriches pre-digest the vegetables for me.

We need a large supply of proteins, which veggies doesnt get I believe... I could be wrong though. But if you exercise a lot, you definately need some kind of major protein supply. Could get them from eggs though..

Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
We need a large supply of proteins, which veggies doesnt get I believe... I could be wrong though....

This is a myth, we don't need a large supply of protein.

Two of the most pervasive myths about vegetarian diets concern
protein:

Myth 1: It is hard to get enough protein on a vegetarian diet
Myth 2: Plant protein does not contain all essential amino acids and
you have to carefully combine plant foods in your diet in order to get
the "right" protein...

Read the rest...
Protein Myths

Is it possible to get enough protein on a vegetarian diet...

Absolutely, it’s actually difficult to become protein deficient unless you quit eating all together. Just about all unrefined foods contain significant amounts of protein. Potatoes are 11% protein, oranges 8%, beans 26%, and tofu 34%. In fact, people have been known to grow at astounding rates (doubling their body size in only six months) on a diet of only 5% protein.
These people are infants and they do it during the first 6 months of life, fueled by breast milk, which contains just 5% protein. (2)

Source

Myth #2: A Vegetarian Diet Will Lack Vitamin B12. (a protein)

B12 deficiencies are more likely to occur as a result of inadequate absorption rather than a lack of consumption; so meat eaters may be just as susceptible to B12 deficiencies as vegetarians.

Source

Do you think if you couldn't get enough protein that athletes would be vegetarians?...

Famous Vegetarians - Sports Personalities

'Meat helped the human brain to evolve' is also a MYTH, it was in fact the discovery of fire and the ability to cook that did this, not what they ate...

Science Daily — MINNEAPOLIS / ST. PAUL--Fire provided the "spark" for modern human evolution, but not because it allowed our ancestors to eat meat. Rather, it was the ability to cook tuberous roots akin to carrots, potatoes and beets that caused hominids to turn a major evolutionary corner about 1.9 million years ago, according to anthropologists Richard Wrangham of Harvard University, Gregory Laden of the University of Minnesota and Harvard colleagues David Pilbeam, Jamie Jones and NancyLou Conklin-Brittain. The researchers will publish their hypothesis in an upcoming issue of Current Anthropology.

Source

Humans can't eat raw meat as a main part of our diet. Go ahead and try it if you feel like making yourself sick...We were veggies before the discovery of fire and we ate raw vegetables.

Biologists will tell you we’re really not designed to eat meat, but we adapted to it. However, in the time line of human history, eating meat is a relatively recent evolutionary development.

www.hit4biz.com...

The meat myths are perpetuated by he meat industry, one of the world biggest money makers. Meat putrefies within 4 hours after consumption and the remnants cling to the walls of the stomach and intestines for 3-4 days or longer than if a person is constipated. How nice is that?

If we were meant to eat meat we would get excited at the idea of eating it raw as other meat eating animals do. We are conditioned to believe we need to eat meat, it's not a natural desire. We obviously are disgusted by raw meat and have to cook and season it before we can eat it. A carnivorous animal will not touch an animal that has been burned by a forest fire.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe people were marketing meats for money back in the stone age when we started eating it. We are not carnivores like what you pre mentioned, we are omnivores and we eat meat and veggies. We are designed to eat both. Many large meat eaters can go days before feasting again after a large dinner because of meat, that won't happen after a large feast of veggies.

same old carnivore / herbivore / omnivore argument. if u understand right & wrong, just follow your heart. i been vego 8 years and feel MUCH better for it. dont agree? dont care.

Children who are raised as vegans are found to be much healthier and smarter than those who are not. Humans can get all of their required nutrients without eating meat at all.

Here is a good article that talks about the hazards of eating red meat:

...fat tissues -- whether in a cow or a human -- tend to concentrate whatever pollutants are found in the mainstay diet of the animal. A cow eats literally tons of grass in its lifetime, and in doing so, it collects and concentrates low-level pollutants found in its diet. For non-organic beef, it's quite common to find trace amounts of heavy metals (mercury, cadmium), pesticides, and even PCBs. That's because, for non-organic beef, feed practices are rather horrifying. You'd be shocked to learn what's perfectly legal to feed to cows intended for human consumption.

So while conventional doctors tend to put the health risk blame on the saturated fat found in meat products, I think it has a lot more to do with the toxic substances concentrated in those fat tissues. A cow is much like a land bottom-feeder, and eating meat from a non-organic cow is a lot like eating shrimp from the bottom of the ocean.

These toxins, when consumed, are clearly and unquestionably linked to cancers as well as nervous system disorders that can accelerate Alzheimer's disease and dementia. They also stress the liver and impair immune system function. The human body should never be exposed to mercury, PCBs or the rocket fuel chemicals that are now almost universally found in cows' milk products across the country (in a 2005 Texas Tech University study, perchlorate was detected in 46 of 47 store-bought samples of cows' milk across 11 states).

The second (and more important) reason processed meats are so strongly correlated with cancer is, I believe, the continued use of a cancer-promoting additive called sodium nitrite.

This ingredient, which sounds harmless, is actually highly carcinogenic once it enters the human digestive system. There, it forms a variety of nitrosamine compounds that enter the bloodstream and wreak havoc with a number of internal organs: the liver and pancreas in particular. Sodium nitrite is widely regarded as a toxic ingredient, and the USDA actually tried to ban this additive in the 1970's but was vetoed by food manufacturers who complained they had no alternative for preserving packaged meat products.

You can find sodium nitrite in nearly every packaged meat product imaginable. It's listed right on the label of products like bacon, breakfast sausage, beef jerky, pepperoni, sandwich meat, ham, hot dogs, and even the meats found in canned soups. If you and I walked into any grocery store in America, I could show you hundreds of products that contain this ingredient right now. And I believe this sodium nitrite is the primary cause of pancreatic cancer in humans who consume even moderate quantities of processed meats.

Source: The real reason why processed meats are so dangerous to your health

The only animal product I have consumed for the past year has been dairy. I will not eat eggs, or any form of animal life, pre-animal life ...

It only took a couple months after working at a slaughterhouse and I mentally couldn't eat the food anymore ... I wouldn't eat a human egg/embryo ... I wouldn't eat human flesh ... this is what it is for me ... I don't expect the majority to agree with me, but there is something about seeing a surgery, then eating a piece of chicken and getting a vein stuck in your teeth ... or looking at a corned beef/roast/etc. and seeing someone that had been torn apart on the news. I have heard several stories of people that have smelt burning bodies, and no longer can stand a barbeque.

I don't say you are wrong for eating me, I just don't understand it any longer ... as I cannot understand how I did for so long ... except out of ignorance and blind dismissal of understanding. Bone marrow, brains, etc. none of that sound appealing, organs, skin ... it is not very appetizing if you call it how it is. Pork rinds are pig skin ... you are eating fried football. Guess it does go well with it! Gelatin comes from boiling the marrow out of the bones. Some makeup contains blood. If you still enjoy it after knowing the truth, more power to you. I support you and your choice ... but I think, we should be informed in a direct sense ... and tell you children exactly what they are eating and let them make an informed decision on their diet as soon as they understand. I wish my parents would have done so when I was a child.

I also have the understanding on how intelligent other species are, even though we cannot communicate with them directly, doesn't make them stupid. If you have adopted a cat or dog, you probably wouldn't eat them, even in a country that it is acceptable ... because you have formed a bond and understanding of that creature. Otherwise, you think people would cook their pets when they have grown old. We find animals figure things out better than we do on some issues such as natural disasters and diseases (detection). Owning a fish such as Astronotus Ocellatus (Oscar Cichlid) you see a personality in them. Dismissing their ability to think and feel is ignorance.

But again, I do support anyone's decision to eat meat if they so choose, just don't intentionally naive to the facts. I ate more than my share of bacon in the past, as well as all you can eat barbeque. I don't want to be hypocritical, since I have enjoyed it in the past.

I will say, I feel better than ever now that I am a vegetarian. I get more than my needed requirements of all nutrients. I don't miss meat at all, I eat plenty of tasty foods, and have plenty of variety. The smell of real meat turns my stomach a bit, even hickory bacon, which I thought 15 months ago could never happen. I have cooked for my family, and they were impressed with the taste of the 'veggie meats' ... a spaghetti sauces with veggie meat crumbles and veggie italian sausage ... they couldn't tell the difference ... I will only take some of the credit, with knowing how to season the sauce and simmer it with the right vegetables all day

I think the added benefit of me not eating meat (and eventually dairy) is the environment ... though my individual contribution is somewhat small ... as a group, us vegetarians have made a bit greater difference.

I fully disagree that we need it, it is what made us intelligent, and it provides any health benefits.

It IS purely a choice/desire and if not handled properly can be very dangerous.

If you do consume meat, make sure to get the internal temperature to at least 165 F, this ensures all bacteria is killed ... if you have ever worked in the food industry, you know this already. Whatever you eat, eat safe so you can continue to debate and discuss your views on ATS!

I stopped eating meat about 5 years ago, when I say stopped it's not zero meat. I will have about 4 to 6 oz steak or pork in a month but that is in the summer months, BBQ season, and it has to be cooked when I see it
But over all I don't touch the stuff can't stand looking at raw meat it just puts me in mind of human flesh but that my PTSD talking LOL

Disadvantages of Eating Meat

I have eaten meat for over 20 years and haven't ever stopped to think about the animal that was slaughtered to make the steak, hamburger, pork chops, bacon, chicken wings, all white meat chicken breasts, or even the turkey I give thanks for. I just think, I have to eat, these things not only taste good but fill me up good, and I love the grease that oozes out of a nice perfectly barbecued burger! I am not some tub-o-lard(I'm a mere 175) that indulges in meat binges or anything, I just appreciate the fact that these animals gave their lives to taste good and end up as poop floating in a sewage system somewhere to join the environment as different matter. I really don't think these animals thought they'd end up on my plate, nor did I think I'd be eating a nice thick cut of butterfly pork chops last night. But if we all spend all of our time thinking about those things then when will we have the time to think about more important things? Do you think about what is going to happen to your corpse upon the aftermath of your death? If so you may wish to make an appointment with your local psychologist!

Life is too short to worry about whether to have the all veggie diet or the meat eaters combo.

Take this scenario for example, two different people, one vegan, the other hefty Meat eater, both lived their lives accordingly. One day whilst walking across the street, the vegan is struck by a city bus being driven by the Hefty man whilst sucking down a triple patty hamburger. The meat eater is fine, but the vegan is now dead.... after caring his whole life about saving animals he losses his life to the cause he was out to save. Is that irony or what?

Originally posted by parry noid
I have eaten meat for over 20 years and haven't ever stopped to think about the animal that was slaughtered to make the steak, hamburger, pork chops, bacon, chicken wings, all white meat chicken breasts, or even the turkey I give thanks for.

Congratulations?

So a big part of learning is being open to thinking new thoughts. FYI

In the event of aliens visiting our planet, I hope they show you the same courtesy

I just think, I have to eat, these things not only taste good but fill me up good, and I love the grease that oozes out of a nice perfectly barbecued burger!

Some veggie-killers, such as myself, would be perfectly content seeing meat-eaters simply switch to eating free-ranged/organic meat. The atrocity, in my opinion, is factory farming. There isn't many small family farms anymore The majority of the meat comes from animals that don't have a life (nothing reminiscient of their natural environment and lifestyle!), and are pumped full of growth-hormones and antibiotics. This is bad news for meat-eaters! Especially the use of anti-biotics, which health officials say is increasing our (Americans) tolerance to anti-biotics; a definite concern for future pandemics. Not too mention, factory farms use anti-biotics on their livestock because the horrible living conditions require it!

I just appreciate the fact that these animals gave their lives to taste good and end up as poop floating in a sewage system somewhere to join the environment as different matter.

Not a fan of the Golden Rule philosophy I take it?

Are you just baiting with comments like this?

These animals didn't give up their lives. We took their lives away. I am not trying to convince you killing them is wrong, but it's still absurd to say they 'gave up their lives' so you could eat them. Arrogance. Well done.

I really don't think these animals thought they'd end up on my plate,

No, they didn't.

nor did I think I'd be eating a nice thick cut of butterfly pork chops last night.

Yes, you did.

But if we all spend all of our time thinking about those things then when will we have the time to think about more important things?

Sad world we live in, that humans would not consider the wellfare of other sentient beings as an important enough thought to be thought.

Do you think about what is going to happen to your corpse upon the aftermath of your death?

Not too often.

But I do think about the quality of the life I am living!

Hint. Wink.

Life is too short to worry about whether to have the all veggie diet or the meat eaters combo.

Let us hope this short life of yours won't be even shorter by eating contaminated meat

Take this scenario for example, two different people, one vegan, the other hefty Meat eater, both lived their lives accordingly. One day whilst walking across the street, the vegan is struck by a city bus being driven by the Hefty man whilst sucking down a triple patty hamburger. The meat eater is fine, but the vegan is now dead.... after caring his whole life about saving animals he losses his life to the cause he was out to save. Is that irony or what?

Yes, I believe that is an ironic circumstance.

What's your point?

We shouldn't do anything healthy because we could be struck by lightning, or hit by a bus, at any moment?

Great attitude!

There is nothing wrong with a Vegan diet, however, just like people who consume the wrong kinds of meat there are certain health risks that can arise if one does not pay attention to their diet closely. Namely, there are several compounds your body needs that are not readily found in a vegetable centered diet such as Calcium, Iodine and Vitamin B12 (which can cause nervous system damage). It is usually reccommended that people whom practice this style of food intake also take dietary supplements to make up for the lack of these nutrients in a plant based diet. However, there are some advantages that Vegans hold over the rest of us Omnivores including a reduction in cholesterol, diabetes, and various heart diseases. This is a little on the subjective side of the argument, however, as most cases are based on the varying health and physical conditions of the people in the studies. Some Vegans have even claimed that a meat only diet can lead to the development of Scurvy due to the inability of humans to synthesize Vitamin C, which has never been proven. However, this is in direct contradiction to the Inuits of the Arctic region who consume a diet based almost solely around fish, animal meat and blubber but display healthier characteristics than most present Vegans. Not only this, but there are many alternatives avaliable for people who consume meat but want a healthy lifestyle. One example of this would be eating Buffalo meat instead of the meat produced from various American cattle. Buffalo meat is not only delicious (I eat it frequently myself) and high in protein, but very low in fat, cholesterol and calories. Any diet, whether it be of the vegan, carnivore, or omnivore nature depends more upon what nutrients you eat rather than in what form those nutrients come. This means that a strictly vegan diet can be just as unhealthy as a meat eater if the proper nutrients are not consumed regularly.

There are a number of Vegans that practice their diet because of animal rights and such, but think about it; whether you kill plants, insects, or animals you need to kill in order to survive (as does every species on Earth). The argument could be made that Vegans concerned with the death of "innocent creatures" and the like are just as guilty themselves of killing "innocent plantlife". Understand I am not grouping every vegetarian or vegan into this category, but there are a large number of them who believe killing animals for food is wrong.

I don't have the same expansive philosophies to add, but I do think that you don't have to take it so far if you want to be healthier. I'm personally trying to eat less meat now, maybe a meat dinner a few times a week or so (or so, if I want roast beef, I'll eat it ). I never loved greasy or sweet things, and I feel healthier (maybe it's just less work for my digestive system?) when I eat more vegetarian.
I wouldn't just stop eating meat, though. It's less about trying to avoid meat and more about trying to feel more comfortable and healthy.

As a side note, I notice that I get a slight headache shortly after eating a hamburger. Could it be the fat content, or something else?

Originally posted by Johnmike

As a side note, I notice that I get a slight headache shortly after eating a hamburger. Could it be the fat content, or something else?

John I think I can help, I have an extensive amount of knowledge in this area. Is it just about everytime you eat one? Is this fast-food or storebought? Both? If store bought then what brand?

Some hamburger companies don't even use meat-cows... they use lame and sometimes diseased dairy cows. Yum. On a general note, hamburgers and hotdogs are the ones to stay away from. That said, whole food stores do sometimes have quality freerange/organic patties for sale.

[edit on 30-7-2007 by Cloak and Dagger]

Meat is good for you, it helps build muscle to make you strong.

Have you noticed that most vegetarians look like scrawny weaklings?

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Have you noticed that most vegetarians look like scrawny weaklings?

That's not true.

Some sure. Hell maybe even lots.

I am a vegetarian myself. I am also an amateur pit fighter, and a competitive artist in eskrima. I am not scrawny at all. Would you like some pics?

Meat is good for you, it helps build muscle to make you strong.

Meat being good for you is only sound in theory Bruce.

The quality of the meat has come a long way since my ancestors were shooting them down with arrows. The corporate agricultural machine loves to inject our meat with a plethora of health concerns so they can flip more profit. Amongst other atrocities.

Oh and there is more to muscle growth then protein, although that point is erroneous since I think you're suggesting you can't get protein from a vegetarian diet? If that's the case then you are simply not qualified to make any judgments on vegetarianism.

[edit on 30-7-2007 by Cloak and Dagger]