Alien abductions, the human soul, and its limit on our technology

I have been thinking an awful lot lately about all the UFO evidence, the alleged abductions, crop circles, etc. and why they have been happening more than ever lately. I have been actively participating in the CARET drone thread and it has been really stimulating to say the least. It has led me to wonder about several things that I thought I would share and would certainly like opinions and feedback on.

Whitley Streiber believed that these EBEs (specifically the Greys) were seeking communion. He felt as if they were looking directly into his soul. That made me think, "what if these beings have no soul?" What if we have something they don't and they are trying to get it from us? Have you ever heard of anyone that has had an abduction mention anything about Greys showing emotion? I haven't. From any illustration I've seen they look emotionless -- empty and void of any sort of feeling or compassion.

So it got me thinking. How come they have technology that is so much further advanced from our own? Could our range of emotions -- love, hate, empathy, compassion, anger, sadness, ambition, desire, etc. -- get in the way of technological progress? Could the human condition perhaps be one of such spiritual importance that its very essence hinders technological progress? If we had no feelings of love for our family members, no desire to have children, no ambition for the future, then what would our motivating force be? What, as a species, would we do to further our place in the universe?

My guess is that we would focus on technological progress since we would have no spiritual existance. If all we physically experienced was the world that we saw with our own eyes, we could sure get a lot more done technologically. If we had nothing but a conscious mind, one where we didn't dream or didn't have a subconscious, we would probably be light years ahead of where we are now technologically.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't think this is a good thing; we need our dreams and desires, our loves and hopes -- it's what makes us uniquely human. I'm just looking at this from an outside perspective. Perhaps our soul or whatever you wish to call it, our great range of emotion is what these EBEs are after. After all, why else would they be coming to a planet so primitive and technologically far removed from their own? Would you travel light years to study a cavedweller's technology? Of course not, which is why I think there is much more to their presence here than most people realize.

P.S. It is interesting to note (and while I take no position of opinion on this one way or the other) that John Lear has been told that these beings have a "soul collector" which is said to collect our souls when we die so that they may be analyzed, and then redistributed here on Earth when they are finished. I personally think this is a little far fetched, but since it is relevant I thought it should be noted.

wow this is such a great concept that you speak of.

However one emotion I do think that they have is pain, in a physical sense.

As far as having other emotions, I am not too sure, but they must have a sense of 'satisfaction' being as that why continue building space craft and such, for instance satisfaction would be used to build more advanced craft, which I presume they do.

But who knows?

Besides, how would they know that we supposedly have a soul?

Good post!
I find you’re P.S. most interesting. I’ve felt for some time that we have been outgrowing are traditional beliefs and have been finding are way as a people, wondering where to go with our beliefs next and can’t help but think the Ufology is our next belief. How ironic if that’s were are traditional belief ultimately came from
Having beings collecting are souls and after examining them to return us here is not very far from are belief’s now
I don’t think we’re visited by extraterrestrial as frequently as the UFO culture would have me believe, but who care’s, even if it was just once My God !, what that means !

Firstly, I hate to keep reiterating this, but it's something that I feel is my "mission" to get across... The soul and spirit are not one and the same thing. To get a better view of what I am talking about here, see my thread on this subject.

Here is a link:

Soul Vs. Spirit

Anyway, if what they say about the grays is true, then they are emotionless. Therefore, they have no soul. However that doesn't mean they are spiritless. I think they are very interested in our emotions. Fear,hate,anger, et cetera... I think it is all very appealing to them,but they really don't understand it.

As far as them trying to still our emotions, i.e soul, I think you've watched one too many sci-fi movies.



[edit on 26-7-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

I doubt that aliens could have advanced without some emotional basis, at least at the early stages of their evolutionary path.

Emotion, altruism, would tend to be one of those needed elements for sentience. It would be a binder in a hostile world. And if the aliens had no hostile world in their early development, then it seems unlikely that they would have ever had the drive to leave home.

Look at it this way; if you live in a paradise where food is plentiful, where there are no major predators that want you for lunch, and you have nothing to overcome, then it is unlikely that you as a species will ever develop the skills or desire to change your way of life or your location. Therefore it is unlikely that you will develop past the stage of a hunter/gatherer.

However, if you live on a planet where there are things that sharpen your critical skills, where innovative thinking and problem solving are of a survival value, then you are also likely to develop emotion. Emotional ties being for the good of your offspring, who may not survive unless you are willing to take great risks due to "love".

Now the emotional nature of this hypothetical alien group could have been accidentally or purposefully bred out over some period of time, but it is highly unlikely that the species never had it to start with.

As to the concept of a soul, that is an area that cannot be proved even for humans. I have seriously met people that I am sure had no soul, as you and I use the word. To me, it seems that the concept of a soul is actually a way to describe the collective mixture of complex emotions that are brewed over a lifetime by we humans. The distilled product being who we "are" within the matrix of our minds.

Could aliens want this? Sure. As far as that goes, abductions could be a form of stealing this as a "high" to be sold or traded somewhere else. A race that never felt anger or tenderness or regret might "pay" dearly for the chance to have these feelings implanted. Hell, we as a species take great risks to do the same things; everything from bungee jumping to heroin.

Interesting ideas, but no way to do more than speculate.

As to the concept of a soul, that is an area that cannot be proved even for humans. I have seriously met people that I am sure had no soul, as you and I use the word. To me, it seems that the concept of a soul is actually a way to describe the collective mixture of complex emotions that are brewed over a lifetime by we humans. The distilled product being who we "are" within the matrix of our minds.

That's basically the sum of my theory about the soul as well... Now the spirit is whole different animal completely in my book. The soul is basically the carnal mind or the emotions that exist in the physical realm and the spirit is the "breath which gives life."

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Originally posted by agent violet
wow this is such a great concept that you speak of.

However one emotion I do think that they have is pain, in a physical sense.

As far as having other emotions, I am not too sure, but they must have a sense of 'satisfaction' being as that why continue building space craft and such, for instance satisfaction would be used to build more advanced craft, which I presume they do.

But who knows?

Besides, how would they know that we supposedly have a soul?

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Just wanted to help address your logic on a few things.

Pain is not an emotion; rather, a sensation. How we in turn respond to that pain is an emotion(sadness, anger, hatred, ). But pain itself is the way of your body saying"I'm damaged".


Also IMHO, your idea of "Sense" of satisfaction is flawed. If you take emotion out of the picture, one can still logically wish to build ships, and make them the most advanced and "best built" ships they can for entirely un-emotional reasons. For instance:
Production needs
Technological Advancement to further their race
Keep a military edge to provide protection to their species etc..

So there are many ways of furthering a species as a whole, without getting emotions involved.




To the OP:

Nice thinking. I had a few thoughts here as well:

An advanced enough race would indeed be interested in traveling great distances to see primitive cultures develop, either to aid them in doing so, or learn more about how (in general) their species may have developed eons ago.

Oddly it is deep within the human spirit to wish to go and explore, adventure, and learn more about our surroundings. I have no doubt that if we do survive long enough to gain interstellar travel, we will wish to seek out the wonders that exist out there. Notice that I said it's deep within the human spirit, I have no idea about any aliens and what their feelings might be


I also believe that a species could evolve far and learn rather than being ruled by emotion, they would try to control them so that they are able to work without being restrained by their emotion, yet during times of leisure, be able to access their emotions for their own pursuits.


Anyway, my 2 cents.

X

Edit- Also interesting to your line of thinking here: there is a whole Transhumanist movement that seeks to merge our human biology with our technology via NBIConvergence. We have a member on ATS "IgnoranceIsntBliss" who has done some interesting study into the proposed Nano/Bio/Info Convergence(also known as "Project Eden" in some circles). I have actually used some of his sources for my project (Earth = Prison Colony(not the official title mind you) 2 years+ in the making). You should look into the coming(unless thwarted) convergence. You may be surprised.

Anyways......


X

[edit on 26-7-2007 by Xatnys]

Excellent replies, all of you. Thank you so much for participating and contributing to this thread. Keep up the great work!

If you don't have emotions, what's the point of improving yourself or even existing?

Originally posted by uberarcanist
If you don't have emotions, what's the point of improving yourself or even existing?

Well, you have people right here on earth who are emotionless. Ever here of a socio-path?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by uberarcanist
If you don't have emotions, what's the point of improving yourself or even existing?

Well, you have people right here on earth who are emotionless. Ever here of a socio-path?

They're not emotionless, they just don't feel guilt.

Uber, believe it or not, I have met people who feel nothing. I am almost like this, due to many things that I have experienced in my life, I have cut my self away from any sense of emotion.

So, yeah, there are people who emotionally feel nothing.

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If you don't have emotions, what's the point of improving yourself or even existing?


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Self Preservation.

It's an instinct, not an emotion, so it's possible that a "soul-less" species could exist that has thrived solely on the need to preserve itself/ it's lineage.

Do our emotions contribute to our creativity? Would not having said emotions take away from our ability to create and innovate? That's something to ponder and I don't really have a answer for that.



X

When I do feel an emotion, it is usually one of anger.

So where's the motivation without some sort of sense of desire?

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So where's the motivation without some sort of sense of desire?
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There would still be motivation found in the instinct of Self Preservation. Motivation to not die and not let your species extinguish itself into oblivion. That's a pretty big motivator and is responsible for the whole idea behind Self Preservation.

I'm not saying it would be a fun, exciting, and ultra-great model of an existence, but it would be an existence.



Once again that leaves out anything to do with creativity and innovation. which may be a factor. I dunno

X

First, I think this belongs in SkunkWorks.
My opinion. Reasons given below.

Originally posted by pjslug

Whitley Streiber believed that these EBEs (specifically the Greys) were seeking communion.

Streiber is a sci-fi writer. At one time, pretty decent.
To think he wrote Communion as anything other than an
avenue to sell books is (IMO) narrow-minded.

Nay ! You may say. Communion was a way Streiber
related his story !
Which is fine and dandy. Just (IMO) not true.

He felt as if they were looking directly into his soul. That made me think, "what if these beings have no soul?" What if we have something they don't and they are trying to get it from us?

Pure conjecture. Nice idea, but conjecture nonetheless.

Have you ever heard of anyone that has had an abduction mention anything about Greys showing emotion?

I've not heard a believable abduction story.

From any illustration I've seen they look emotionless -- empty and void of any sort of feeling or compassion.

Great statement. Illustration. Zero evidence. No pictures.

This is why I make such a fuss over the distinction of UFO vs Aliens.

There ARE UFO's.
We have pictures and video that are Unidentified Flying Objects.

Aliens ? Zero, zip and nada.

The rest of your post (while thought-provoking) is again,
conjecture.

And, to our dear readers :
This is why I think it belongs in SkunkWorks.

Go ahead. Slam me. I'm ready.

Regards,
Lex

Lex, why the need for a move? Is there that much difference by it being in skunk works? Aside from the forum name having an offensive ring to it, it's still on the main board, and still has the same points value.

Besides, fully half of what passes for fact here is nothing more than conjecture. At least the OP hasn't made up in details, and that's a step in the right direction for a lot of these threads.

And it does at least concern the UFO phenomenon.

Originally posted by Xatnys


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So where's the motivation without some sort of sense of desire?
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There would still be motivation found in the instinct of Self Preservation. Motivation to not die and not let your species extinguish itself into oblivion. That's a pretty big motivator and is responsible for the whole idea behind Self Preservation.

I'm not saying it would be a fun, exciting, and ultra-great model of an existence, but it would be an existence.



Once again that leaves out anything to do with creativity and innovation. which may be a factor. I dunno

X

But, is not a desire for self-preservation still a desire?

Originally posted by NGC2736

Aside from the forum name having an offensive ring to it

Actually, I have immense respect for Kelly; and think
SkunkWorks is respectable, but theoretical.

Besides, fully half of what passes for fact here is nothing more than conjecture.

I disagree.

The A&UFO forum has given up a myriad of great pictures
and stories (I DO accept stories if the OP is honest) that are
worthy of looking into.

At least the OP hasn't made up in details, and that's a step in the right direction for a lot of these threads.

I agree.

The OP stated his/her opinions.

Fine by me.

But, still conjecture. Nothing tangible.
No picture. No video.

And it does at least concern the UFO phenomenon.

So do a lot of things.

Without something to see, hear or touch. Hell, even something
to read if it's honest and informative.

I'm sure I'll be accused of splitting hairs, but when it comes
down to the nitty-gritty; isn't that what's needed ?

Respect,
Lex