There were other Holocausts?

Hi:

This, unfortunately, is a subject that I have studied at great length. The greatest genocide in world history was what the Spanish perpetrated on the Native Americans between 1492 and the early 1600s, when they had the New World nearly to themselves to rape and plunder. About 90% of the Western Hemisphere’s population vanished during that period. There is no comparable event in world history.

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Columbus was only the first in a long line of European/American genocidists:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and the U.S. has a national holiday in his name. When the English set up their first permanent military foothold in the New World, at Jamestown:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

the region had already been devastated by European-introduced diseases, so what the English and Americans inflicted on the natives of North America had a death toll far less than the Spanish tally. However, the English intentionally inflicted genocide on the Native Americans, with smallpox blankets only part of the scene:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

The Spanish killed off 90% of a hemisphere as a mere SIDE EFFECT of history’s greatest gold rush:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

After colonial elites prevailed with their American “revolution,” (won due to French intervention, not by the “heroic” actions of the colonialists):

www.ahealedplanet.net...

George Washington (another genocidist who we honor with a national holiday) quickly proposed a strategy to swindle the Native Americans out of their land with fraudulent treaties:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

in what may be history’s greatest swindle. His strategy became official American government policy until there were no more natives left to swindle. As David Stannard once wrote, that as the dust settled on Wounded Knee: “At last, there was almost nobody left to kill.”

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Making tobacco pouches from murdered Native Americans was SOP for those “noble” American pioneers:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

www.ahealedplanet.net...

www.ahealedplanet.net...

There were genocides before the European conquest of the world (read the Old Testament) and they continue. The greatest continuing genocide today is what the U.S. has been inflicting on Iraq, with somewhere between 2 to 3 million deaths since 1991 (with nearly a million since we invaded in 2003).

The 20th century saw numerous genocides, with the one in the Belgian Congo probably being the first, as Europe and America profited from the “rubber boom.” That one claimed far more than ten million lives (10 million in the Belgian Congo alone, and the other powers inflicted similar depopulation in their colonial domains in the region - it was about a 50% depopulation, in the name of rubber), but the first and I believe only time it has ever been given scholarly attention in the West is with Adam Hochschild’s “King Leopold’s Ghost”:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

What the Western powers did to Africa in the late 19th century has been called the “Scramble for Africa.”

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Hitler was inspired by the American example of “Manifest Destiny”

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and its Native American genocide for his Lebensraumpolitik policies. The main difference between Hitler’s plan for Eastern Europe and Washington’s plan for North America is that Hitler did it in the industrial age, when killing people could be accomplished on a vast scale (where death factories made their appearance). Hitler’s crime was doing it to white people. Other forerunners to Hitler’s concentration camps were Padre Serra’s California missions:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and American Indian reservations. That Wikipedia list of massacres is highly biased, leaving out every massacre of Native Americans by the European invaders, and they FAR exceeded what the natives inflicted on the invaders:

Here are SOME examples:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

www.ahealedplanet.net...

www.ahealedplanet.net...

www.ahealedplanet.net...

I can cite many more.

Although he is too militant for my taste, Ward Churchill’s work is brilliant, and his troubles at his university are due to a political witch-hunt far more than any academic misconduct. Anybody who has studied his work and the “findings” against him knows that.

The Jewish Holocaust was very real,

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and the Holocaust “revisionists” usually have an unsavory agenda:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

but their holocaust denial is not the only one practiced:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

The Israelis have plenty to answer for, regarding their treatment of the Palestinians. It qualifies as genocide. They are playing a modern version of the “Promised Land” game that their distant ancestors did:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

However, in my lifetime, the U.S has inflicted the greatest international killings.

www.ahealedplanet.net...

There are no contenders.

Those are not pleasant subjects to study, especially for Americans.

Wade


[edit on 22-7-2007 by wadefrazier3]

On the question, "Why have these past actions been covered up?", here are some possible answers:

1. History is written by the survivors, especially when the majority of survivors are of a different ethnic group than the victims of the genocide. In Turkey since World War I, for instance, each national government has denied the reality of the Armenian holocaust, much of which happened within that country. The government brands any attempts to publish proof of this holocaust as "crimes against Turkishness". That policy was largely successful within that country until the imposition of external requirements Turkey currently faces before it can join the European Union.

2. The psychological phenomenon known as "cognitive dissonance" is also a factor. Both for people present during the time of a holocaust, and for those born afterwards, it is psychologically necessary for each person to decide how to resolve conflicting versions on a single controversial topic ...thus the appeal of pressure groups of "holocaust deniers".

3. Scholarly reports on holocausts can yield further insights on motivations to cover up holocaust history. Today, the U.S.-based nonprofit C-SPAN website (C-SPAN 3) shows a scheduled TV channel broadcast on the World War II Holocaust. They also offer the broadcast for sale as a videocassette (in the U.S. video format, that is). Here is that link:

inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080...

On the website of the U.S. Holocaust Museum (Washington DC), many resources for further holocaust study are posted. Here is one such page, which focuses on ways to seek justice for holocaust victims:

www.ushmm.org...

I agree with earlier comments in this thread about the importance of film and video recordings from surviving holocaust witnesses as a means of convincing audiences about the reality of each holocaust. Here is a link to Hollywood film director Steven Spielberg's Shoah Foundation which tapes and maintains film and video records of interviews with Holocaust survivors:

www.usc.edu...

The "What We Do" link, for instance, has a very interesting option to click on called "Why Visual History", which discusses the benefits of classroom discussions following viewing one or more Holocaust survivor interviews. These classroom discussions help reveal to the participating students the roots of bias and discrimination in everyday life.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
And yes cjakforest I have done my homework. I was raised Catholic. I am fairly familiar with the text you call the bible. And many other ridiculous things that I don't need to mention. I have taken religious history classes as well. I am well versed in biblical history. That does not mean I believe all of it.

Whoa.... Settle down tiger. I'm merely pointing out that Israel was a name given to a man, who a race of people descended from, long before it was a country. So you were raised Catholic, and I assume from your signature that you converted to Islam. Talk about two revisionist organisations that have relied on either keeping their Holy Book away from the masses, or worse yet, writing a revisionist text, which is paints God out to be insecure, trying to prove that He is "greater" than something else, rather than laughing off anything that tries to compare as a joke.

Fine, say you don't want to argue religion, but don't follow up such a statement with religious propaganda, built around a superstitious belief about the holy grail. After all, that is where British Israelism comes come, European monarchs trying to put themselves into the Rovingian dynasty, in order to usurp Christ's throne. Even Hitler himself tried to put himself into Christ's bloodline.

I am far from a Zionist, and in fact believe that modern day Zionist Israel is nothing more than a NWO instrument from provoking the Islamic world into another World War. The arrogance of their insistence of saying that they will never let another Holocaust happen, will result in the fulfillment of the statements in their Tanakh, regarding the Time of Jacob's Trouble, where two thirds of the world's Jews will be wiped off the face of the earth.

The consistent theme of all groups with a NWO concept, is the eradication of Israel, as a people, and the quashing of Biblical Christianity, whether by Roman Popes, Luciferian government officials, or Islamic Clerics.

Now that you've had your religious rant, and I've had mine, how about we learn how to play nice. Okay?

Originally posted by Kr0n0s

from Websters Dictionary-

Main Entry: ho·lo·caust
Pronunciation: 'hO-l&-"kost, 'hä- also -"käst or 'ho-l&-kost
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin holocaustum, from Greek holokauston, from neuter of holokaustos burnt whole, from hol- + kaustos burnt, from kaiein to burn -- more at CAUSTIC
1 : a sacrifice consumed by fire
2 : a thorough destruction involving extensive loss of life especially through fire
3 a often capitalized : the mass slaughter of European civilians and especially Jews by the Nazis during World War II -- usually used with the b : a mass slaughter of people; especially : GENOCIDE

Is it used to describe the mass killing of jews by hitler? Yes.
Is that the only use for it? No. Is anyone familiar with the words, "Nuclear Holocaust?"

I always thought that the word "holocaust" was point to fire, as in the ovens in the death camps. Certainly the Jews weren't the only target, but they certainly were the primary. Hilter's ideology was largely developed from Helena Blavatsky's writings, which has roots in Tibetan Hinduism. He distorted the Hindu myth of the White Arian, to mean the Germanic people. Hindu theology teaches that God is a creator (Brahma), from whom came a redeemer (Vishnu), and a destroyer (Shiva). Although there are other God's in the Hindu pantheon, these are the primary.

Shiva's destroying work began with creating a temporal, physical world, which we mortals are trapped in. The ultimate goal for a Hindu, is to break free of the cycle of death and rebirth, and become a part of Nirvana, which is in essence to become absorbed into God. So therefore, creation is evil.

Question, who claims that there God created physical matter? The Jewish God of course. To the Hindu, Islam and Christianity are mere offshoots of what the Israel unleashed on the world, by daring YHWH (Shiva [sic]) to be the Almighty God. Belief in this Deity is effectively stalling evolution, which according to Blavatsky is working toward producing the "God-man".

Therefore, eradicate the Jew, liberate humanity.

And the Native Americans weren't really destroyed in a systematic way like that, it was much more decentralized.

Untrue, it was called 'Manifest Destiny'.

The U.S. government and armed forces had a plan to eradicate the Indian way of life. It started with the the Sullivan-Clinton campaign and was elaborated upon throughout the 'Indian Wars'.

The eradication of the Indians was systematic and cruel, driven by greed for the land and the riches within that land. The Indians were in the way, and weren't afraid to fight back, so they had to be eliminated. Many steps were taken to do this.

* Starving them out--destruction of crops before the winter (Sullivan-Clinton techniques) or the wholesale slaughter of the Buffalo, etc, etc
* Rounding up of Indians to reservations
* Illegality of Native religions (many Natives weren't allowed to worship their own religions legally in the U.S. until the late 1970's) Wikipedia link
* 'Schooling' Indian children in military-style schools were their customs and language were suppressed, often violently.

Then there's the two dozen Congressional Medals of Honor awarded to soldiers responsible for Wounded Knee...

I just thought I would add these pictures here.
Most of this stuff shows the targets of the many holocausts. You will find these paintings in an airport here in the USA.

Here is a Jewish girl


Here is an african woman



And lastly the Native Americans



Im just waiting for them to Add the muslim coffin painting when they are done with that holocaust. As I belive its going on right now, as I type this.

They stick it in your face all over the place, little hints. And they dont care if you know! Like you could stop them anyway. Most Americans are to busy hating on eachother, and only care about money.. Not all but most.
I find ATS members to be much more compassionate when it comes to life.
But this is a very small % of people that live in this world!

Edit: Added text.

[edit on 023131p://3519 by zysin5]

Yes, those paintings that are hanging up in the newest Denver Airport are really strange, to say the least.
Some people, have drawn comparisons between some of the paintings and the future that the US is heading for, NWO, Police State, etc..

Here is another example of Israel trying to throw their weight around, trying to force their will on others.

You know, its funny because I really dont have to dig very much to find many examples that proves my point about their attitudes towards the rest of the world.

Fury as Israeli textbook admits expulsions

ISRAELI right-wingers are furious at the acknowledgement in a new schoolbook that Palestinians were forcibly expelled when Israel was established in 1948.

They claim it undermines Israel's legitimacy as a Jewish nation state.

Zevulun Orlev, the leader of the National Religious Party, called on the education minister, Yuli Tamir, to step down after she gave the go-ahead for the new textbook, which is much more honest about the 1948 war than many Israelis are.

"Some of the Arab residents were forced to leave their houses and some were expelled and became refugees in the neighbouring Arab countries," the book says.

The book says that what for Jews was a fight for Israeli independence was for Arabs "a catastrophe, a war of disaster and loss".

The departure from the official Israeli version that all Palestinians ran away during the 1948 fighting rather than being evicted, as many were, comes in a book called Living Together in Israel that is being introduced into schools among Israel's Arab minority this September.

Originally posted by wadefrazier3
About 90% of the Western Hemisphere’s population vanished during that period. There is no comparable event in world history.

And it was almost exclusively due to disease, especially smallpox.

Originally posted by wadefrazier3
Columbus was only the first in a long line of European/American genocidists

www.ahealedplanet.net...

I'm not sure about some of the accusations listed here, but the sources are cited well. Much of Columbus's actions weren't really recorded well, so much of it is speculation. Either way, the Spanish were ruthless, and obviously had no problems with conquering native peoples and enslaving them under the encomienda system. Whatever the details are, the Spanish were terrible to the Native Americans.

Originally posted by wadefrazier3
and the U.S. has a national holiday in his name. When the English set up their first permanent military foothold in the New World, at Jamestown:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

the region had already been devastated by European-introduced diseases, so what the English and Americans inflicted on the natives of North America had a death toll far less than the Spanish tally. However, the English intentionally inflicted genocide on the Native Americans, with smallpox blankets only part of the scene:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

The Spanish killed off 90% of a hemisphere as a mere SIDE EFFECT of history’s greatest gold rush:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

After colonial elites prevailed with their American “revolution,” (won due to French intervention, not by the “heroic” actions of the colonialists):

www.ahealedplanet.net...

George Washington (another genocidist who we honor with a national holiday) quickly proposed a strategy to swindle the Native Americans out of their land with fraudulent treaties:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

in what may be history’s greatest swindle. His strategy became official American government policy until there were no more natives left to swindle. As David Stannard once wrote, that as the dust settled on Wounded Knee: “At last, there was almost nobody left to kill.”

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Making tobacco pouches from murdered Native Americans was SOP for those “noble” American pioneers:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

www.ahealedplanet.net...

www.ahealedplanet.net...

There were genocides before the European conquest of the world (read the Old Testament) and they continue. The greatest continuing genocide today is what the U.S. has been inflicting on Iraq, with somewhere between 2 to 3 million deaths since 1991 (with nearly a million since we invaded in 2003).

The 20th century saw numerous genocides, with the one in the Belgian Congo probably being the first, as Europe and America profited from the “rubber boom.” That one claimed far more than ten million lives (10 million in the Belgian Congo alone, and the other powers inflicted similar depopulation in their colonial domains in the region - it was about a 50% depopulation, in the name of rubber), but the first and I believe only time it has ever been given scholarly attention in the West is with Adam Hochschild’s “King Leopold’s Ghost”:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

What the Western powers did to Africa in the late 19th century has been called the “Scramble for Africa.”

www.ahealedplanet.net...

Hitler was inspired by the American example of “Manifest Destiny”

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and its Native American genocide for his Lebensraumpolitik policies. The main difference between Hitler’s plan for Eastern Europe and Washington’s plan for North America is that Hitler did it in the industrial age, when killing people could be accomplished on a vast scale (where death factories made their appearance). Hitler’s crime was doing it to white people. Other forerunners to Hitler’s concentration camps were Padre Serra’s California missions:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and American Indian reservations. That Wikipedia list of massacres is highly biased, leaving out every massacre of Native Americans by the European invaders, and they FAR exceeded what the natives inflicted on the invaders:

Here are SOME examples:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

www.ahealedplanet.net...

www.ahealedplanet.net...

www.ahealedplanet.net...

I can cite many more.

Although he is too militant for my taste, Ward Churchill’s work is brilliant, and his troubles at his university are due to a political witch-hunt far more than any academic misconduct. Anybody who has studied his work and the “findings” against him knows that.

The Jewish Holocaust was very real,

www.ahealedplanet.net...

and the Holocaust “revisionists” usually have an unsavory agenda:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

but their holocaust denial is not the only one practiced:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

The Israelis have plenty to answer for, regarding their treatment of the Palestinians. It qualifies as genocide. They are playing a modern version of the “Promised Land” game that their distant ancestors did:

www.ahealedplanet.net...

However, in my lifetime, the U.S has inflicted the greatest international killings.

www.ahealedplanet.net...

There are no contenders.

Those are not pleasant subjects to study, especially for Americans.

Wade


[edit on 22-7-2007 by wadefrazier3]

I think that we should include China where conservative est. say approx. 30-70 Million perished as a direct result of Mao and his backers i.e. UK and other European countries that had vested interests, US and USSR. See the Book……. The Unknown Story by Jung Chang,Jon Halliday. The WW2 holocaust terrible as it was, does pale somewhat at these figures!

Has anyone mentioned the 10 million people killed by Belgium in the Congo? King Leopold's ghost stuff?

I did, above, and here


www.ahealedplanet.net...

Originally posted by mlmijyd
I think that we should include China where conservative est. say approx. 30-70 Million perished as a direct result of Mao and his backers i.e. UK and other European countries that had vested interests, US and USSR. See the Book……. The Unknown Story by Jung Chang,Jon Halliday. The WW2 holocaust terrible as it was, does pale somewhat at these figures!

Yea, China is a very good point as well. There were many people killed or just never seen again during their "purges".

I still want a clear answer to the question posed by a few other posters in this thread.
Why is the word Holocaust seem to be exclusive to what the jews went through in WW2 when any other mass killing of a race or religion is just called a "Revolution", Purges or Genocide?


[edit on 8/8/2007 by Kr0n0s]

I totaly agree with you! Here's a link to a very interesting series of movies that I think you will like.

www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com...

Have a good day.


Amon Goeth

Originally posted by Kr0n0s

Why is the word Holocaust seem to be exclusive to what the jews went through in WW2 when any other mass killing of a race or religion is just called a "Revolution", Purges or Genocide?

It isn't, we just assume it is because it is the Jewish Holocaust that is most widely read. Why? because it is easy to do so. It is very well documented, there are multiple sources and funding is readily available to those historians that wish to study the Jewish experience. Unfortunately funding and backing is not as readily available for anyone wishing to study the experience of the other victims. Nor up until the fall of communism was the information accessible or the people free to talk.

A clearer picture of the mass murders that occured in Eastern Europe, the Balkans and the Baltics is only now coming to the fore. Many of the Eastern European victims of the Nazi forced work programmes were liberated from the Nazis, only to be interred by the Soviets on their return home. The people that got to tell of their experiences are the ones who stayed in the west, these were mainly Jews. Those who fell under communism were mainly slavs. We have therefore for the past 50 years or so had a distorted view of the actions of the Nazis and therefore of the Holocaust.

About 3 million slavs were initially estimated to have been murdered by the Nazis, it is likely that this number was much higher. Unlike the victims in the camps, most victims in the east were not given a number and a record. They were just rounded up, murdered by the Einzatzgruppen or worked to death in one of the SS business concerns.

No-one was going to ask what had happened to them, as there would eventually have been no-one left alive who would remember they had ever existed.

The only slavs that did actually survive the war were those that escaped the pogroms by living in the forests and carrying out raids on the new 'German' settlers moved in by Reinhold von Mohrenschildt in his capacity as head of German resettlement in the East.

Unless you passed the vigorous tests to determine if you were racially German enough, you were unlikely to be transported to one of the work programmes in Greater Germany. Those that were never taken to a concentration camp or assigned to a forced labour programme were in no way recorded. Hundreds of thousands of men, women and children were taken from their homes and murdered en masse in isolated woods.

Action Reinhardt was dreamed up in response to the increasing demands on man-power in containing the populations in the Lublin and surrounding districts. The solution was to exterminate the Jews and therefore enable them to devote more resources to solving the slavic question whose raids and partisam activities was causing increasing concerns. There had also been attempted uprisings in some of the ghettos and the SS feared that a full scale revolt could occur.

Most studies on the Holocaust play it safe and do not break new ground, but some do and attempts are being made to write about the genocides with a renewed perspective. I have certainly read a number of books which attempt to paint a fuller picture. The added difficulty is that the waters were muddied in the East. Britain, the US and Russia all have secrets that they are not yet willing to give up. Until that happens some aspects of the Holocaust will remain a mystery and will keep allowing people to doubt its reality.

Well in some countries it is hard to the "Jewish holocaust" during WW2
For example, say youre an Investigator in some EU Nation and you decide to do a serious investigation that is independent from any Government agency, you will probably run into some roadblocks and heavy resistance from officials.
If you happen to discover any evidence at all that in anyway lowers the number of victims from whatever the "official" count is, you will find yourself behind bars and facing a trial, so for many people the risk is to great.
These "Holocaust Denial" laws are ridiculous and should be illegal in my opinion.
You dont even have to say it didnt happen to be arrested, simply lowering the number of victims or saying there weren't any gas chambers will get you arrested in many European Countries.
And people wonder why the USA doesnt join the world court. If we were a member and an American stated his opinion by denying it happened or just giving a different version of the "official" one, we could/would be arrested and tried.


Irving

Holocaust denier to be released
David Irving in court on 20 December 2006
David Irving says he has changed his views on the Holocaust
An Austrian appeals court has ruled that UK historian David Irving - jailed for denying the Holocaust - should be released on probation.

Irving is now being held in police detention and will be deported to the UK on Thursday, officials said.

Irving was convicted in February in a case that sparked international debate about the limits of freedom of speech.

In 1989 he spoke in Austria denying the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz, though he later said he was "mistaken".

The appeals court in Vienna had heard calls for both a reduction and increase in his sentence.

Irving on Wednesday welcomed his release and said he was "fit and well".

The 68-year-old said he would urge an academic boycott of historians from Germany and Austria until the nations stopped jailing historians.

"I was put in prison for three years for expressing an opinion 17 years ago," he said.

COUNTRIES WITH LAWS AGAINST HOLOCAUST DENIAL
Austria
Belgium
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Israel
Lithuania
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Switzerland



[edit on 8/8/2007 by Kr0n0s]

You missed one of the largest genocides here. The Japanese invasion of China. Millions of Chinese civilians were murdered, beheaded, and used as slave labour before and during WW2. It was proceedure for the Japanese army to cleanse the land, so that colonization could occur after the war was won. This also applied to all the islands and countries they invaded and occupied during their war. No one knows for certain how many were killed and buried in mass graves or burned on the streets.
This is another example of a genocide that occured, but is ignored by the world.

Good point! It's rediculous! What they don't realize is that they are doing exactly what the Nazis did. You can't have an oppinion besides theirs.

Amon Goeth

Originally posted by Direwolf
You missed one of the largest genocides here. The Japanese invasion of China. Millions of Chinese civilians were murdered, beheaded, and used as slave labour before and during WW2.
This is another example of a genocide that occured, but is ignored by the world.

Yet another good example, even though I was aware of this particular holocaust against the chinese people, I had forgotten about it.
Thanks for bringing it up.
It is yet another example of how easy it is for the populace to be conditioned and manipulated to remembering and believing only those events that the people/Nations with the agenda want you to believe and remember.
Where is the law that forbids people saying that this is BS, there is no way that happened?
There isnt one and never will be and thats the way it should be. The only law in the entire world that was pushed onto the world by Israel.
These laws, that prevent people from stating their opinions on the Holocaust are illegal themselves and should be abolished immediately.
After that, anyone that has ever been tried and convicted should receive reparations for the time they spent in prison and for the damage that was done to their reputations, especially in the case of the Historian, Irving, who was sent to prison for an opinion that he stated around 20 years ago.