People with Religion More Judgemental Than the Non-Religious?

I have been on ATS for almost a year and have watched the religious and political debates unfold, but it appears that when religion is the issue, the threads tend heat up with passion and sometimes blind ignorance.

Whether your religious or not are people that have a religion more judgmental than those without a religion or perhaps the opposite?

I also have seen people of the same religion, being judgmental and critical members in their own community or circle of faith?




[edit on 11-7-2007 by Realtruth]

No, no, no. To me it seems like the atheists are the ones attacking anything and everything, always trying to stir things up.

But it probably is just a matter of personal opinion as to who's worse.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
No, no, no. To me it seems like the atheists are the ones attacking anything and everything, always trying to stir things up.

But it probably is just a matter of personal opinion as to who's worse.

Now I am not taking sides here, but why do you think this? I am going to play the devils advocate a bit here in this thread. No pun intended, one way or the other. Please be more specific in your response.

Thanks RT

[edit on 11-7-2007 by Realtruth]

I am not atheist, however I have seen too many instances of judgemental religious institutions. I have been to a church where a young boy was humiliated by his pastor because he wore a printed t-shirt instead of a collar and tie. That is one of many reasons I do not worship in a church.

Why go to church when one can have a personal relationship with God out of church?

People can be judgmental whether they are atheists or are part of an organized religion. I have seen atheists be as judgmental as any fundamental christian, muslim, etc.

It is up to the individual person to let their beliefs be put aside for a second and listen to another opinion. If one is not open to new ideas, it is basically like trying to talk to a brick wall. You can shout all you want, but the wall is not going to move.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
No, no, no. To me it seems like the atheists are the ones attacking anything and everything, always trying to stir things up.

As you later said 'it's personal opinion'.
I get tired of the constant overt/covert attempts at conversion of atheists/agnostics, or the threads with posts which basically say 'my opinions are formed by my interpretation of the Bible/Koran/Talmud'
Yes, there are atheists/agnostics that occasionally 'stir things up' so to speak, but we ain't that bad.
Or are we?

To me it really does seem that some of the most judgmental people on this planet are those who hold (or indeed, claim to hold) strong religious beliefs.
For an example of this, we need only look at the recent debate in the UK over gay adoption. The Church went berzerk over it all.
From my experience, those people who blindly follow the teachings of a 'book' or 'enlightened individual' will cling passionately to their own sense of how things should be done and not even consider taking on board another's viewpoint simply because it does not agree with their chosen holy text.

As for atheists attacking everything, I'm really not very sure about that. I'm an atheist myself and the only thing you'll find me attacking is intolerance. Now, before some of you start saying that I'm being intolerant of religion here, let me point out that I am not - they can worship what they like as long as they don't expect me to live by their rules or expectations.

For some reason, these devout people appear to think that believing in some form of deity allows them to pass comment on any social issue at any given time (just listen to or read any mainstream media). They judge. They condemn and they fight wars in the name of their God(s). All strikes me as very hypocritical.

Religious people are not more judgemental than non religious.
Non religious people are not more judgemental than religious.

Everyone of every belief/non-belief group have judgemental people.

Athiests judge the religious people .... Religious people judge athiests....

I don't see any difference in that behavior being displayed.

I'm an atheist, and I see a double standard in the faith forums.

I try to have reasonable debates about things that I really question and get called names, told I'm a bully, told to butt out of threads.

I think, from my personal experience on the boards, that it seems that religious people don't like to have their beliefs questioned and when a question they can't answer comes up, or someone presents an argument that they cannot answer and are not allowed to get off with the "faith" fallback position, that the theists can get rather nasty.

The only time that I have no patience is with the people who claim to be prophets. I have yet to see one that has been correct, and not a single so-called prophecy that isn't just a vague story spun from current events and from things that are probably inevitably going to happen at some point anyway.

I have called these people frauds and liars, and I will continue to do so. I give them a chance, when the prophecy doesn't come true, I tell them they lied, and then of course the inevitable cries of bully, jerk, etc. come up.

I don't think faith can stand up to rational scrutiny, and it makes people defensive. So in my own opinion and from my own experience, I think the religious -- mostly the fundamentalists -- are more judgmental. There are several Christians on the board here that I have on my friend list that are not judgmental, are reasonable, and that I can have a discussion with about any aspect of belief or non-belief without it resorting to hostility.

But I say this: If I enter a debate and try to remain calm and reasonable, and it devolves to accusations and name calling, I will not "turn the other cheek." I'm more than capable of standing my ground and returning the favor.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Why go to church when one can have a personal relationship with God out of church?

Very Interesting point having a relationship with God out of the church, according to most religions if you don't go to prayer, mass and gatherings you are not a devote religious person, therefore making you not a person of God, thus making the religious institutions judgmental and looking only for money to run their agendas.

Am I off base here?

Originally posted by Realtruth
Very Interesting point having a relationship with God out of the church, according to most religions if you don't go to prayer, mass and gatherings you are not a devote religious person, therefore making you not a person of God, thus making the religious institutions judgmental and looking only for money to run their agendas.

Am I off base here?

No you hit the nail head on.

I don't consider myself religious. I don't belong to any religious denomination.

I would consider myself spiritual though. I do not disregard any religious truths, as all religions (well most not all) have some truth to them in their books or oral traditions. I am open to all ideas pertaining to each and have not shut myself off from any.

I choose not to join any though. For lack of a better reason, I don't want to be sucked up in the corruption.

I find God within myself and every other piece of life. I do not need to go outside of myself to find God, to find truth. It is already here. It is within all of us.

Granted, everyone's perception of God may be very different and that's alright. God is still love.

I do pray, I do meditate, I do show thanks for the life I am given. I just don't do those in a 'house of God' so to speak. Its funny, the bible mentions how each person is a temple of God, yet the Christian churches sprung up soon after Yeshua passed away. I find it pretty ironic. And the Jewish temples had been there for thousands of years prior.

I think religion was used to help people find their moral compass. When killing your neighbor was ok because he stole a loaf of bread, or chopping his hand off like they still do in places like Morocco, that's when these sort of biblical laws were necessary.

I know what is 'right' and 'wrong' for me. I have my own strong moral compass and I find it unnecessary to go outside myself to find such things.

You do not have to be a devout religious person to be a child of God. We are all children of God, even the atheists. Belief is irrelevant, we will all be God's children no matter what. You do not all of a sudden cut God out because you ignored Him/Her/It for some time. It all comes back around sometime.

Ask for a spiritual experience yourself, from your own higher power, and you will never need a church or religious book again. It is interesting to read holy books, but that does not mean I need it to find my God. You don't either.

Churchs need cash flow to stay afloat, correct. The Pope has billions of dollars in artifacts and gold, yet there are millions of starving people in the world. I cannot subscribe to a religion of such hypocrisy. And no, don't tell me its the Pope's priveledge because he is the bearer of Christ's message on Earth. You know that's not true.

The Pope had been hijacked hundreds of years ago by those wishing to control and manipulate rather than spread a message of good will...

One doesn't have to look very far to see the current Pope's hypocrisy. Not only was he a member of the hitler youth during WW2, he now attacks other Christian churchs because they don't follow apostolic precession. Like he even knows what that is!

I am skeptical to believe that an Apostle even started a church. Yeshua ben Joseph never wanted a church/religion to follow him in the first place.

He always mentioned 'go straight to the Father.' There is no mention (maybe in the corrupted versions of the Roman bible I guess) of how he ever wanted a religious following. He was sent to disband the current religious order, I don't think he would have created another one.

He said it best, himself. Not long after my death, my truth will be greatly corrupted.

Well, Rome took over that job for him...including countless other mistranslations and addenums/subtractions.

#, Christians for the most part don't even use Yeshua's real name. They call him Jesus, the Romanized version of Yeshua.

Let me spread some knowledge here, I'll do some research for you.

It seems like sometimes Christians and atheists/agnostics aren't fighting the real battle at hand. I don't think most rational atheists are angry that Christians believe in God, and vice versa. I think the problem is tolerance, as someone mentioned earlier. I read this and thought it was very appropriate:

"As a Christian, I am taught that the Bible is absolute truth. So could I admit other truths without defying my own?

Relativity and Christianity are like oil and water. They do not and cannot mix. The only way they could, would be if one of their foundational components were compromised. But if H20 were just H2, then it wouldn’t be water. So if I admit relativity, I compromise the very foundation of my belief.

But only part of his accusations about me were true. True: I cannot accept that other people may be right as well. False: I am close-minded.
Time and time again people who embrace the idea of absolute truth are called judgmental, a word that carries with it certain negative connotations, making it synonymous with close-minded.

This is fallacious, under the fallacy that's commonly known as "Begging the Question"--assuming something that has yet to be settled. The supposition is this: Absolute truth and open-mindedness cannot coexist."

Anyways, I found this to redirect the topic, ever so slightly, to help get at the real issue. Personally, I agree that believing in something firmly isn't always "blind following" even if someone doesn't have ALL the answers (no one really does anyways). Likewise, I don't think it is judgmental to be intolerant. I think that imposing your own beliefs in a forceful way is wrong, no matter the party. But I think that calling someone judgmental just for having made up his/her mind on this topic is a judgmental accusation in and of itself.

Just some thoughts...