To John Lear and Sleeper: Planet Neptune - A Waterworld?

pstrron, thnx for the links, I found them very interesting. So, the sun is just a super-big, ascended planet, taking good care of all the other little mortal planets under its watch. I guess even NASA is allowed to update its opinions, as technology and therefore knowledge increases and keeps revealing stunning 'new' facts, which may suggest there could be Luna updates soon, as well . . maybe it really is a big ball of cheese!

reply to post by OptionToChoose

maybe it really is a big ball of cheese!

Maybe green cheese at that!! Now I wonder if that would go with red wine or white?

reply to post by pstrron

Well, I do not like green eggs and ham (may have been the box or the fox), although I cannot yet speak for green cheese, although I am inclined towards a sparkling red beverage!

So perhaps someone exists (like this seems to show) who is not nearly as awed by Sol as we are, who simply recognize it as the resource it is, not a thing of worship, so to speak.

[edit on 1/5/2008 by OptionToChoose]

Originally posted by ChocoTaco369
I base this speculation on a few things. In order to speculate, we need to recall some of John Lear's past statements:

\

Uhh..i wouldn't base your findings around the "Scientific" works of john lear. Everything i've seen him state as "Fact" seems to be based more in science fiction than in science fact. Far as i can tell his "findings" can't actually be proven (by sceintific standards)..so i wouldn't use him as the basis for any serious research.

Planets colors dont' nececarily have anything to do with what's on their surface..their distance away from the sun determines that. Neptunes mad far away from the sun..even if it did have water..it would be all ice, because there's no heat to thaw it out and turn in back into water..water freezes, nobody can debate that. Without heat and light..water will remain ice. Neptune isn't close enough to a high enough heat, or light source to have liquid water.

it's pretty simple conclusion..if you're using *real* science.

Now I said earlier that it might be liquid Hydrogen,or maybe even solid.But here is my delema.

If its ice,if it is solid anotherwords then It sure would stink if the ice melted,given the fact that because its methane it might turn right into
a gas,instead of going through a liquid stage.


Who knows,it might be quick sand in the center with Frozen Water in the
middle layers,the as it gets to the top it gets less solid.

When I say quick sand,I don't meen it in the literaly since.I meen it could be semi solid gunk of molten sand like particles wich cause you to sink to the center wich is Rock.

[edit on 13-1-2008 by John Guffey]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
.it is NOT a solid iron ball any more than the false-color images in '2001: A Space Odyssey' are showing 'solid' oceans on Earth undulating wierdly...

From the first paragraph in the linked document...

This visible neon plasma layer, as well as a thicker, deeper plasma layer of silicon, entirely covers the actual rocky, calcium ferrite surface layer of the sun. The visible photosphere covers the transitional region that is the actual surface of the sun, much as the earth's oceans cover most of the surface of the earth.

Wikipedia says...

"Ferrite, iron or iron alloys with a body centred cubic crystal structure."

United States Patent 3649248
PROCESS FOR PRODUCING A CALCIUM FERRITE FOR MAKING STEELS
www.freepatentsonline.com...

Repeat after me...

IRON

reply to post by zorgon


Well, I have some shirts that need ironing...

Really? OK...sunspots. Coronae...what manifestations of our life-giving Sun are these?

reply to post by zorgon


Z,

Just came back from Wiki...here's what I read:

Surface of our Sun consists of Hydrogen (about 74% of total mass), He, (24% of total mass) and trace quantities of...Fe, Ni, O, Si, S, Mg, C, Ne, Ca and Cr.

Now, I am not a chemist...but I seem to remember that 'Fe' is...hmmm...short for 'Ferrous'. I remember that ferrous metals were able to be magnetized....ah HA! 'Fe' is IRON!!! In 'trace' quantities, according to Wikipedia.

Let's see, that's also traces of...Nickle, Oxygen, Silicon, Magnesium, Carbon, Neon, Calcium and...Chromium? The last one puzzles me, but I can go look it up, no problemo...

Thanks for the link...

Originally posted by ChocoTaco369
I had an interesting thought lately. We all know Earth is known as "the blue planet." Reason being is that nearly three quarters of our surface is covered in water. Well, we all also know that planet Earth isn't the only blue planet in our solar system - Neptune is even bluer. So I had the thought: what if planet Neptune is a waterworld?

I base this speculation on a few things. In order to speculate, we need to recall some of John Lear's past statements:

1.) John Lear has stated that he believes there are no such things as "gas giants," or more formally, "the only gas giant in our solar system is NASA." This would mean that all planets have some type of solid surface.

2.) John Lear has stated that the sun is not a giant thermonuclear ball of fire, and that is actually an electromagnetic sphere. The sun's electromagnetism interacts with the atmospheres/electromagnetic properties of planets. This interaction then generates the planet's temperature. This would imply that a planet's distance from the sun does not dictate its temperature, and as long as the planet is within reach of the sun's energy (within the heliopause), the planet could be sufficiently warmed.

If these two things are in fact true, that would mean that Neptune could have a temperature similar to Earth's, along with a solid surface to walk on.

Here is the assumed "accepted" composition of Neptune:




To John Lear, Sleeper or anyone else that knows more than the average Joe: do you believe the above diagram is accurate? Basically, what are your views on Neptune? Do you believe that it possesses a solid surface and a surface composed nearly entirely of water?



Bright blue, white wispy clouds...it sure looks beautiful. Does anyone possess the belief that Neptune is not a gas giant/ice giant and is in fact a giant planet covered in a vast, blue ocean?

I just thought it was an interesting possibility...

The great Nikolai Tesla also talked of the earth having its own Electromagnetic source that can be tapped into, thus creating free energy for all earths habitans. So yes, I generally do believe in that Sun Energy theory.

reply to post by topsecretombomb


topsecretbomb...do you really think that looks like water? Do you believe it is a true color image, or is it possibly enhanced in some way to accentuate the clouds, and the gaseous features?

Consider the source, research it to find the answers.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
Uhh..i wouldn't base your findings around the "Scientific" works of john lear. Everything i've seen him state as "Fact" seems to be based more in science fiction than in science fact.

So I suppose we should take YOUR version on face value instead huh?

it's pretty simple conclusion..if you're using *real* science.

Well I really wonder what you mean by "*real* science" Last I checked real science involves RESEARCH... It might do you a little good to actually do some before you shoot off about the knowledge of others... I mean nowadays you don't even have to go to a library... a simple google search and Voila !

Now THIS is from REAL scientists...

Liquid Water Oceans in Ice Giants

Starting from an assumed temperature at a given upper tropospheric pressure (the photosphere), we follow a moist adiabat downward. The mixing ratio of water to hydrogen in the gas phase is small in the photosphere and increases with depth. The mixing ratio in the condensed phase is near unity in the photosphere and decreases with depth; this gives two possible outcomes. If at some pressure level the mixing ratio of water in the gas phase is equal to that in the deep interior, then that level is the cloud base. Alternately, if the mixing ratio of water in the condensed phase reaches that in the deep interior, then the surface of a liquid ocean will occur.

Now these scientists think its to hot on Neptune for the oceans so the water is still in the state of water vapor
Cornell University LANL Archives

But if you want a real monkey wrench tossed into this theory.... how about going further out? Say all the way to Pluto's Moon Charon?

Yup more liquid water way out there....

From more REAL scientists....

Icy geysers may erupt on Pluto's largest moon
18:23 18 July 2007
NewScientist.com news service
Maggie McKee

Geysers of liquid water and ammonia are erupting on Pluto's large moon Charon, new observations suggest. The work bolsters the idea that Charon may harbour a liquid ocean beneath its surface – and just possibly, life.

SOURCE

Water Water Everywhere... the stuff of Life...

Europa

It may sound like science fiction, but most of this fanciful description is true. NASA's Voyager and Galileo spacecraft have shown Europa to be a frigid world dotted with remnants of "cryo-volcanoes" and rafts of ice similar in appearance to those seen on Earth's polar seas during springtime thaws. As astonishing as the surface sounds, Europa may be even more interesting underground. Many scientists think that tidal friction from nearby Jupiter heats the interior of the moon to temperatures where liquid water is possible.
Beneath its icy crust, Europa could harbor the solar system's largest ocean!

NASA Science

Saturn's Moon Enceladus

Cook suspects the process is akin to one occurring on Saturn's moon Enceladus, where a vast plume of water vapor has been found spewing from long fissures in the ice – dubbed "tiger stripes" – on the moon's south pole (see Giant water plume spews from Saturn's moon).

SOURCE

And don't forget about Mars...

NASA - NASA Images Suggest Water Still Flows in Brief Spurts on Mars
Liquid water, as opposed to the water ice and water vapor known to exist at Mars, is considered necessary for life. The new findings heighten intrigue about ...
www.nasa.gov...

And finally deep beneath the ice in Antarctica we have Lake Vostock... Liquid water that hasn't seen the light of day for many thousands of years...

Lake Vostok (Russian: восток, "east") is the largest of more than 140 subglacial lakes found under the surface of Earth's southern-most continent — Antarctica. It is located at [show location on an interactive map] 77° S 105° E, beneath Russia's Vostok Station, 4,000 meters (13,000 feet) under the surface of the central Antarctic ice sheet.....

Due to the lake's similarity to a moon of Jupiter, Europa, confirmation that life can survive in Lake Vostok might strengthen the argument for the presence of life on Europa......

To probe the waters of Lake Vostok for life without contamination, plans were initiated by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory to start with a melter probe — the so-called "cryobot" — which melts down through the ice over Lake Vostok, unspooling a communications and power cable as it goes. The cryobot carries with it a small submersible, called a "hydrobot", which is deployed when the cryobot has melted to the ice-water interface. The hydrobot then swims off and "looks for life" with a camera and other instruments.

en.wikipedia.org...

You know it would seem there is a LOT of liquid water in the solar system... and I see the word 'LIFE" in every article...

So seems NASA et al is getting closer to accepting John's beliefs



[edit on 16-1-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
The great Nikolai Tesla also talked of the earth having its own Electromagnetic source that can be tapped into, thus creating free energy for all earths habitans. So yes, I generally do believe in that Sun Energy theory.

The not so great NASA knows this and tried to tap it with the tether experiment... only problem was that their scientists said there would not be much energy there... only to find that the power was up to 10 times what they expected hence it created a sustained arc that continued well after the tether broke free....

And this energy is simply that produced by running a copper wire through Earth's magnetic field... about as simple as it gets....

Now it seems that while NASA is busy rewriting the books on Water in the Solar System....

They have also adopted the Plasma Universe theory ... this ought to make the folkes at Thunderbolts go out and celebrate... and, as it says in my signature... this truth is entering the third stage...

More than 99 percent of matter in the Universe exists in the plasma state though nature rarely produces plasma on Earth's surface. Earth's electrically neutral environment is a rare exception.

Plasma processes are important factors in the behavior of stars, interstellar clouds, comets, the aurora, and even in our upper atmosphere. If scientists are to fully understand astrophysical and geophysical phenomena, they first must have a clear understanding of how matter behaves in the plasma state.

liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov...

Springtime is blooming on Neptune! This might sound like an oxymoron because Neptune is the farthest and coldest of the major planets. But observations by NASA's Hubble Space Telescope reveal an increase in Neptune's brightness in the southern hemisphere. Astronomers consider this increase a harbinger of seasonal change. The observations, made over six years, show a distinct increase in the amount and brightness of the clouds encircling the planet's southern hemisphere.

NASA Hubble Space Telescope observations in August 2002 show that Neptune's brightness has increased significantly since 1996. The rise is due to an increase in the amount of clouds observed in the planet's southern hemisphere. These increases may be due to seasonal changes caused by a variation in solar heating.

hubblesite.org...

reply to post by zorgon


Zoron, regarding Europa... John Lear said a few times that the tidal lock theory is crap. There is only one reason why it can be the case, and that is to assume there is no tidal friction. So in your exposition of possibility of water on Europa you fell victim of mainstream science.

Edit: as usual, the sensational topic of the thread fades into something more mundane... We like to proclaim balmy seas on Neptune, only to demote them to water under deep ice or pockets of water in icy caverns a few pages later.



[edit on 16-1-2008 by buddhasystem]

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Zoron, regarding Europa... John Lear said a few times that the tidal lock theory is crap.

Ummm this has what to do with the existence of water?

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Zoron, regarding Europa... John Lear said a few times that the tidal lock theory is crap.

Ummm this has what to do with the existence of water?

Perhaps for once you should read what you post (and even highlight). Quantities of liquid water can be possible, according to some scientists, due to tidal friction. That's what you posted. So either you retract this, or tell John he has no clue about tidal effects. Your choice.

Neptune is blue due to Rayleigh scattering in its upper atmosphere and a lack of cloud cover.

The solid bit is from compression.

Did you know it rains diamonds on Neptune?

A lot of super Earths are more bluish than our own and many have shallow oceans even in their sometimes hot atmospheres because of the higher pressures under those atmospheres.

Water lapping up onto a liquid lava beach, phssss the steam goes...a real haven for life! Those worlds can afford literally billions of more years for life to flourish, and a much more protected environment than our own. They are also far more common than Earth like worlds.

edit to add exoplanet examples

[edit on 1/20/2008 by Matyas]

Originally posted by Matyas
Did you know it rains diamonds on Neptune?

No, I didn't know that, and neither does a single scientist on Earth. That's a guess. Until any of us actually go to Neptune, my guess is as good as the scientist with the most expensive rectangular piece of paper in the world.

That's my point, here. No one knows anything for sure. No one knows that Neptune is blue because of Rayleigh scattering in the upper atmosphere. It could be due to water on the surface or an infinity of other reasons. No one knows Neptune rains diamonds. No one has ever seen a diamond on Neptune (or if they have, they haven't lived to tell about it). No one knows anything for sure.

The true skeptic is skeptical of all claims. That's what bugs me most about most skeptics. They'll trounce anything that isn't mainstream with the most twisted logic they can come up with, yet they'll believe anything NASA says with open arms. How is that being skeptical? It's just being a sucker for something else.

Originally posted by ChocoTaco369
Did you know it rains diamonds on Neptune?

No, I didn't know that, and neither does a single scientist on Earth. That's a guess. Until any of us actually go to Neptune, my guess is as good as the scientist with the most expensive rectangular piece of paper in the world.

Not really... their 'guess' is better because all you need is the right temperature and pressure and carbon crystallizes to diamond...

Only problem is that many diamonds would make them worthless

The true skeptic is skeptical of all claims. That's what bugs me most about most skeptics. They'll trounce anything that isn't mainstream with the most twisted logic they can come up with, yet they'll believe anything NASA says with open arms. How is that being skeptical? It's just being a sucker for something else.

Hmmm good point... maybe those skeptics are not really skeptics, but the REAL disinfo agents... I mean you find the same ones in all the threads... so they can't have a day job... unless this IS their day job... IMO of course