Germany gets Tough on Scientology

An article on BBC news today carried the following

Germany has banned the makers of Tom Cruise's new movie from filming at military sites in the country because the actor is a Scientologist.

The German defence ministry said Cruise has "publicly professed to being a member of the Scientology cult".

Scientology masquerades as a religion to make money, Germany said, but leaders of the church reject this.

Cruise's producing partner Paula Wagner said the star's own convictions had no relation to the film's content.

"Personal beliefs have absolutely no bearing on the movie's plot or themes," she said.

Full story
news.bbc.co.uk...

Of course, this may also have something to do with this
news.bbc.co.uk...

And on a broader front this
news.bbc.co.uk...

news.bbc.co.uk...

I wonder if this is anything to do with France and Germany's desire to see a homogenous Europe, with everything standardised, including forms of worship.

It has to be said though, that there is a certain restriction of freedom of expression not seen in the US.

In the United States, where Scientology has attracted a number of Hollywood celebrities, it enjoys the full rights of a recognized religion.

In Europe, the business side of Scientology has prompted several governments to deprive it of tax exemptions enjoyed by other churches.
srce news.bbc.co.uk...

I'm not a fan of scientology, but I do believe people have the right to express themselves as they choose.
Why should it be up to government to decide what is a religion and what isn't?

They have no rights! They are doing this to spread Scientology: helping people after natural disasters, helping drug addicts, building schools in 3rd world countries, donating to some charity. This is all fine, but when they suck you in, they will take all your money for few stupid stories Ron wrote. Of course you can notice they will later try to convert people they help at first place. Like Catholic Church did in Africa and other countries.

They are like a cult and i hate them all.

[edit on 26-6-2007 by sb2012]

Originally posted by sb2012
They have no rights! They are doing this to spread Scientology: helping people after natural disasters, helping drug addicts, building schools in 3rd world countries, donating to some charity. This is all fine, but when they suck you in, they will take all your money for few stupid stories Ron wrote. Of course you can notice they will later try to convert people they help at first place. Like Catholic Church did in Africa and other countries.

They are like a cult and i hate them all.

[edit on 26-6-2007 by sb2012]

This could have been said as the first christians were being "thrown to the lions"

I'm not sure of how many religions there are in the world, but I'd be willing to bet that a lot of them were persecuted when first introduced.

They are a brainwashing cult. It's OK to destroy those. I don't care about freedom of speech when they just prey on unsuspecting people and take their money and time.

Originally posted by sb2012
They are a brainwashing cult. It's OK to destroy those. I don't care about freedom of speech when they just prey on unsuspecting people and take their money and time.

I take your point, but IMO it's never ok to take away some peoples freedom of choice - I'd also question just how helpless you think Tom Cruise and other hollywood stars are, who belong to the "movement"

It is also wrong for them to go and harrass those who disagree withe their pratices....

They suck people dry of their finances and once they are done with them the chuck them out on the kerb......

The founder was an occultist, most of his work is based around santanic teachins, so no it is not a religion it is a cult....

Well, i dont care for them either, but they still have the right to travel and do whatever others do.
I think the Germany 's defense minister is full of it.

Maybe he had a bad experience with one of them.

People, this is the German DEFENSE MINISTER prohibiting Tom from filming on MILITARY SITES. Military sites are government property and the government may utilize these sites to their discretion as long as they are not breaking the law.

Point taken ubercanist, but the fact that cruise is a scientologist was integral to his decision not to allow filming - this was mentioned in the article.

I think another factor was scientologies public proclamation that they were "targetting" germany as the next place to expand.

Germany and France tend to stick together these days, and I'm pretty sure the french had some influence on the german decision, if only behind the scenes.

Why are you so worried about the rights of some cult pretending to be a religion, based on a bad sci-fi story, taking money from the people and even damaging them? They need to be banned everywhere and leaders brought to justice. Visit xenu.net for videos and material from people who escaped this cult.

[edit on 29-6-2007 by sb2012]

Originally posted by sb2012
Why are you so worried about the rights of some cult pretending to be a religion, based on a bad sci-fi story, taking money from the people and even damaging them? They need to be banned everywhere and leaders brought to justice. Visit xenu.net for videos and material from people who escaped this cult.

[edit on 29-6-2007 by sb2012]

I've had quite a close look at scientology, and I disagree with everything they do/stand for.

Yes, some of their shadier practices need dealing with, and there should be investigations into their methods in attracting vulnerable people.

That said, they seem to have a lot of "members" who are quite satisfied - maybe these are just the high profile ones - but they exist nonetheless.

What I would advocate, is a law enforcing an open door policy on what they do - get it all out in the open, then let people make their own choices, rather than government making them for us.

Originally posted by budski
An article on BBC news today carried the following

Germany has banned the makers of Tom Cruise's new movie from filming at military sites in the country because the actor is a Scientologist.

The German defence ministry said Cruise has "publicly professed to being a member of the Scientology cult".

Untrue. This was a misreported statement. The german defence minister argued about the preventing of using military property for filming in a non-official setting. Somehow it ended up in the media. This was NOT an official statement, and it came BEFORE there even was a formal inquiry by the producers to use any specific locations. The MoD has since stated that there was no principal problem to use military sites for the film. Source

What is true is that the producers have been denied two other sites they wished to use. They were denied to film at a Berlin police station because of the interruption of service this would cause, and to film at the "Bendlerblock" which is a historic memorial site and thus "not eligible" for a commercial film.

It has to be said thNo Scientology mistreatment in here.

And on a broader front this
news.bbc.co.uk...

news.bbc.co.uk...

I wonder if this is anything to do with France and Germany's desire to see a homogenous Europe, with everything standardised, including forms of worship.

No it doesnt - namely because there is no desire for a culturally homogenous Europe like you describe. Economic and scientific standardization is an entirely different thing.

It has to be said though, that there is a certain restriction of freedom of expression not seen in the US.

[...]
I'm not a fan of scientology, but I do believe people have the right to express themselves as they choose.

Untrue. Noone is barred from being a Scientologist or voicing their support for the company or its ideals. And what makes the US American view of Scientology valid and the others unvalid?

Why should it be up to government to decide what is a religion and what isn't?

They didn´t, you´re mixing words and definitions here. Initially the Scientology organization applied for the status of a Church, mainly for the tax breaks. After a lengthy review by the Constitutional court, the interior secret service and the relevant government branches, all three came to the conclusion that the self-titled "Church of Scientology" is foremost a private enterprise - nothing more nothing less - and that it does not deserve to be awarded the tax status of a church. That is the main beef that Scientology has with Germany, and upon which they like to display themselves as oppressed by the evil Germans - they don´t like to lose money.

The FAITH in or the religion of Scientology however is recognized as merely an ideology among a lot of others, no intrinsical problem with that. You wanna be a Scientoogist, noone´s gonna stop you.

Additionally however the aforementioned interior secret service monitors the Scientology institution because it has concluded that certain ideals that are practised there are contrary to the ideals of the German people and -state; they are monitored just like any other unconstitutional group, be it left- or right wingers or radical Islamists. That is their duty.