Meeting U.S. Army Recruiting Goals

I've heard that the U.S. Army is currently having some problems meeting it's recruiting goals. Due to this problem, many citizens are concerned that the draft will make a comeback.

In many ancient civilizations, recruitment came as a product of violating the law. Perhaps history holds some good lessons for us here.

On my criminal cases, where I have a young client (otherwise eligible to join) I'm asking the District Attorney to reduce the felony to a misdemeanor, contingent upon my client's enlistment in the armed services. I had one such case recently, and I found that the DA was willing to allow the client to join, rather than to face life as a felon or felony probation.

This methodology would allow young people that made a mistake or that essentially became part of the wrong crowd, to become a relevant force in the war against terror. They could be taught a trade, and emerge from the armed services as a productive member of society. Yes, of course some will be killed in war, but war appears to be both timeless and inevitable.

I am informed that it costs $30.000.00 per year per inmate to house, administer and supervise an inmate in our penal system. The amount of return is minimal. Currently, scores of National Guardsmen are being required to face extended tours of duty, when a simple tweak to our criminal justice system could bring them home in short order.

Would it not be better to have an otherwise suitable candidate plead to a misdemeanor, waive a signup bonus, and thereafter enter into active service?

After all, what could be more rehabilitating than quality time with a drill sergeant?

Should the US Army recruiters write to the DA's, and communicate the desirability of such a reciprocal arrangement, their target goals for recruitment should be met in abundance in short order.

Unfortunately, this is already happening and has been for some time. Going back to the inception of this country, criminals have been given second chances contingent on their service in the armed forces.

Call me crazy, but I think it's a terrible idea.

The finest fighting forces in history have one thing in common, they were all comprised of professional soldiers, not retainers, not slaves, not prisoners.

We have two separate problems here, the swelling prison populations (seven million plus on probation and parole and in prison) and declining enlistment rates. It's tempting to kill two birds with one stone, but I think it's a duct-tape solution at best.

I have a solution for declining enlistment rates - no more wars for profit. I can guarantee that if our nation was invaded, or we had to fight a righteous war for the good of mankind, there would be no shortage of recruits. I'm even a fan of mandatory service requirements, as long as individuals are given the option of staying within the borders.

It's hard to defend our nation if you're getting blown to pieces in some desert hell-hole half the world away...

As far as solutions for the prison problem, stop prosecuting victim-less crimes, and start exiling violent criminals to the wastelands of Montana or something. Anybody who doesn't appreciate society doesn't deserve society's protection IMO. Exile is better than the death penalty simply because it doesn't beg the same severe moral dilemma.

The only problem with exile is, where the hell do you put these people? I'm all for it, but we need a good place to go with all these criminal assholes.

bring back the draft...2 year manditory for anyone under 30! its time the spoiled people of this country see first hand what it takes to keep this land free and to see what others go through so you can open your mouth to say whatever you want! We have (for to long) allowed people to think:

I AM AN AMERICAN I HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO/SAY WHAT I WANT!
when infact what people should be saying is:
I AM AN AMERICAN, I HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE RIGHT TO DO/SAY WHAT I WANT!

The building of this great nation came on the blood of EVERY able man during the Revolution, while woman supported them however they could. Then as time went one Men and Women continued to fight and build the nation into a world superpower. Then, we had enough brave souls willing to die for others and the others went off and did their own things knowing they would be safe THANKS to those who signed up.

Now we live in a country where everyone wants everything, thinks their entitled to anything but shouldn't have to sacrifice anything for it. They have this idea that all the things they can do and say are always going to be there...well thats BS! and it's going to end real soon...

It all rather depends upon your point of view, I suppose. Yes, as I stated, it has been a common practice throughout history. The Romans drove their criminals before their armies towards the enemy as a buffer force. Those that survived were allowed to become Centurions.

There is a good genetic argument for the practice, as it keeps the cream of our youth off the front lines. The rehabilitative function for surviving lawbreakers should also serve to make them stronger citizens and better parents.

Financially it makes a great deal of sense, and it eliminates the problems associated with prison overcrowding as well.

Practices such as enlistment in lieu of prison have persevered throughout history due to these simple, pragmatic considerations.

To say that an "enlistment diversion program" is a "terrible idea" is to miss the point. (Not to imply that you err, but ridicule is quite the counterfeit of argument). Yes, it would be wonderful if we had no war, but war has always existed. The issue posed is just not a question of "abolition of war" or "withdrawal from Iraq". The issue is whether a simple, time proven technique for dealing with felonious behavior in meritorious instances should be resurrected; and whether the benefit to society and the rehabilitative results are compelling enough to take action towards implementation of a draft alternative.

As a practicing attorney, I can assure you that this methodology is not common practice in this day and time. Thus, the issue is whether it ought to become a prevalent common methodology towards disposal of felony cases in meritorious instances.

Believe it or not, there are many talented people accused of criminal behavior worth saving. One of my clients that recently voluntarily enlisted, after reduction of a "Class A" burglary of a motor vehicle charge, to a "Class C" disorderly conduct charge, is fluent in Arabic. The DA in that case reduced the charge due to his meritorious defense, but the client's expression to me of his intention to enlist brought the topic, and the technique, to mind for posting on the ATS forum. That client's talents may save American lives, and I commend him for becoming part of the solution as he departed from his problem.

Yes, let's turn the dregs of our society into professional killers...why I am I the only one in here who can apparently see the stupidity of this idea?

The LAST thing you want to do is train the criminals to fight, this will only dig your own grave. When you send them to war they not only criminals with a level of freedom now, but armed ones. They will rape, pillage, murder and steal like has never been seen before and will gladly murder anyone who gets in the way. Just take how bad things are right now and multiply that by 5000 or 10,000. However, they are already letting in criminals so whats the point of denighing it? All a recruiter has to do is leave out a few details and BAM! They met recruiting quotas for the month.

As for a draft, they will probably just hire more murdering mercenary forces. They never count on the "KIA" list because they are not official, they are the silent fighters in their dirty wars. So untill they run out of mercenaries there will be no draft, if they run out of mercenaries... Then you have something to worry about.

There are 2000 Federal Felony offenses in our Country, and too many State offenses to mention. Perhaps you missed the "in meritorious cases" part of my "enlistment diversion program" post. As I mentioned in a previous reply, ridicule is the counterfeit of argument. Generalizations tend to miss the point, and painting all felony offenders with the same brush is generalizing. Clearly, only those who don't pose a risk to society should be allowed the benefit of this form of rehabilitation. I'm sure the armed services are competent to establish qualifying criteria. Mercenaries are not the issue in this post.

You obviously need to learn that when you commit a crime in this nation you are done for when it comes to federal jobs. That is how things work, however there is nothing wrong with rehabilitation. I will NEVER EVER support turning people who have commited crimes into military personel, not now, not ever. Do the crime pay the time. Tough luck if you do not like it, it is the law, and that law was made for a reason. The only problem we have right now is there IS no rehabilitation and whatever "does exist" is a sham. Also they have 0 chances for job opportunities once being convicted, I will not blame people for NOT wanting to hire a murderer though, frankly they should never even be allowed out, that and rapists and others of such lowly caliber. Lack of job opportunity is the primary problem for the ones who have been convicted of stealing things and other such petty crimes. Mc.Donalds and Wal-Mart are not jobs, that is slave labor made legal by beurocracy.


Anyway, mercenaries are an issue because someone brought up the DRAFT. Thus mercenaries come into account, because of them there are enough to feed the warmachine right now, if they run out, then they turn to the regular folks and demand their first borns and their everlasting souls.

Criminals and ex-cons should never be permitted to have anything to do with federal jobs. It is too dangerous. Call me a generalizer but they ARE in prisoner for a REASON. Maybe YOU should spend some time checking out the kinds of people you are talking about recruiting... Also spend some time TALKING to them or at least meet one or two, you will change your mind rather fast.

How about in the case of involuntary manslaughter due to a car accident? Many people who are charged with felonies are not really criminals, they are individuals who have made a disastrous mistake. Someone who would receive a felony for a drug offense could really benefit from this option. They could kick their habit and learn discipline at the same time.

Just a historical warning on what may happen if criminals are forced into military service: Dirlewanger Brigade

Good point Northworlf, I was unaware of that piece of history. I suppose desperation lead the military to accept a wider range of convicts if the need arose.

flashdancer

As a practicing attorney, I can assure you that this methodology is not common practice in this day and time. Thus, the issue is whether it ought to become a prevalent common methodology towards disposal of felony cases in meritorious instances.

This has always been standard practice, as far as I knew, to give offenders a chance at reduced sentences or a sealed conviction in exchange for service.

I know it was more common during the Vietnam/Korea era, and that more recently (10 years ago or so) the 'strict' standards of the military made it more difficult. However, the standards are lower now than they have been in some time, so it makes sense that more felons would qualify for the deal.

I still think it's a bad idea, for two main reasons. One - volunteer forces are more effective and have higher morale, and Two - dangerous felons should pay for their crimes against society and can't be trusted with the skills they'll pick up in the military.

If we're not talking about dangerous people, then I don't see any logic for them being in the gunsights of the law in the first place. All these poor people up the river on drug charges are a national disgrace, their victim-less crimes are nothing to get excited about, certainly nothing to warrant a mandatory term of service in a foreign war-zone...

As I said before, if we stopped prosecuting victim-less crimes, we wouldn't have such a glut of non-violent offenders to deal with, and the recruiting solution becomes less and less attractive if all you've got to pick from is a handful of violent, anti-social scumbags.

I do agree that we can't paint all felons with the same brush, but a better solution, I think, is to change the way we run our society rather than just ship a bunch of harmless people over to Iraq to relieve overcrowding in prisons.

Many 'criminals' in our society have hurt nobody and don't deserve any sort of punishment.

I have no problem using murderers and rapists as human shields on the battlefield, but please, for the love of God, don't give them guns. (Yes, I know, you're talking about those harmless criminals - explain to me again why they're up the river in the first place.)

Originally posted by shadow_soldier1975
bring back the draft...2 year manditory for anyone under 30! its time the spoiled people of this country see first hand what it takes to keep this land free and to see what others go through so you can open your mouth to say whatever you want! We have (for to long) allowed people to think:

I AM AN AMERICAN I HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO/SAY WHAT I WANT!
when infact what people should be saying is:
I AM AN AMERICAN, I HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE RIGHT TO DO/SAY WHAT I WANT!

Wrong. See it's not about being American or not American..the point is that all humans, have the right to do, say, think, and practice what they want. The problem is that idiot humans a long time ago decided they wanted power, so they made up rules and restrictions to place on other humans.

The rules we follow were made by old white men. They have no bearing on me, further more..they are not "God's" rules, if God even exists. They are simply the rules that those white men felt should be layed down at that time.

I owe America nothing. In fact it owes me a lot. I don't have to put myself on the front line to be able to have my "Freemdoms". Those freedoms are my right as a human, and i need to apologize to no one, and work for nothing.

the problem i see it is that nowadays people seem to think that we need to work for things that should just be our basic rights as human beings.

Spawwwn...so if we ALL did things your way where would that leave us? I can tell you this much, it would be a HUGE killing field...thats all earth would be. 1 gigantic war zone. You can get rid of all laws, borders, and feel free to do ANYTHING you want...and there will still be people wanting more, wanting what you have, not liking you, or just in the mood to be a bully. If we decided to run things your way all I can say is I hope your ready....because even you would have to agree, things would get ugly REAL quick!