A few unorganized thoughts regarding the Trade Center

www.fredoneverything.net...

(1) We lost. Our moral posturing about our degradation is merely embarrassing. We have been made fools of, expertly and calculatedly, in the greatest military defeat the country has suffered since we fled from Viet Nam. The Moslem world is laughing and dancing in the streets. The rest of the earth, while often sympathetic, sees us as the weak and helpless nation that we are.
The casualty figures aren't in, but 10,000 dead seems reasonable, and we wring our hands and speak of grief therapy.

We lost.

(2) We cannot stop it from happening again. Thousands of aircraft constantly use O'Hare, a few minutes flying time from the Sears Tower.

(3) Our politicians and talking heads speak of "a cowardly act of terrorism." It was neither cowardly nor, I think, terrorism. Hijacking an aircraft and driving it into a building isn't cowardly. Would you do it? It requires great courage and dedication -- which our enemies have, and we do not. One may mince words, but to me the attack looked like an act of war. Not having bombing craft of their own, they used ours. When we bombed Hanoi and Hamburg, was that terrorism?

(4) The attack was beautifully conceived and executed. These guys are good. They were clearly looking to inflict the maximum humiliation on the United States, in the most visible way possible, and they did. The sight of those two towers collapsing will leave nobody's mind. If we do nothing of importance in return, and it is my guess that we won't, the entire earth will see that we are a nation of epicenes. Silly cruise-missile attacks on Afghanistan will just heighten the indignity.

(5) In watching the coverage, I was struck by the tone of passive acquiescence. Not once, in hours of listening, did I hear anyone express anger. No one said, coldly but in deadly seriousness, "People are going to die for this, a whole lot of people." There was talk of tracking down bin Laden and bringing him to justice. "Terrorism experts" spoke of months of investigation to find who was responsible, which means we will do nothing. Blonde bimbos babbled of coping strategies and counseling and how our children needed support. There was no talk of retaliation.

Originally posted by LOBO
www.fredoneverything.net...

(4) The attack was beautifully conceived and executed. These guys are good. They were clearly looking to inflict the maximum humiliation on the United States, in the most visible way possible, and they did. The sight of those two towers collapsing will leave nobody's mind. If we do nothing of importance in return, and it is my guess that we won't, the entire earth will see that we are a nation of epicenes. Silly cruise-missile attacks on Afghanistan will just heighten the indignity.

I don't understand why this person sees the need to do something of 'importance' in return. I suppose the writer wants several people to die, in return. It's bad enough people were extremely disturbed. And where exactly would we retaliate? Against a nation?

An administration Should know all the facts before they act!

Obviously a little old. I'll take these one at a time.

(1) We lost. Our moral posturing about our degradation is merely embarrassing. We have been made fools of, expertly and calculatedly, in the greatest military defeat the country has suffered since we fled from Viet Nam. The Moslem world is laughing and dancing in the streets. The rest of the earth, while often sympathetic, sees us as the weak and helpless nation that we are.

It wasn't a military defeat. AQ is not a military, it is a group of terrorists who are too weak to oppose the US in open warfare.

Also, what is eh referring to when he says 'We lost'. Lost what? The battle? Sure. The war? Far from it.

We lost.

We turned around and utterly destroyed the Taliban and much of AQ.

(2) We cannot stop it from happening again. Thousands of aircraft constantly use O'Hare, a few minutes flying time from the Sears Tower.

You can't stop anything surely. But with proper security in place, we can do the best that is possible.

(3) Our politicians and talking heads speak of "a cowardly act of terrorism." It was neither cowardly nor, I think, terrorism. Hijacking an aircraft and driving it into a building isn't cowardly. Would you do it? It requires great courage and dedication -- which our enemies have, and we do not. One may mince words, but to me the attack looked like an act of war. Not having bombing craft of their own, they used ours. When we bombed Hanoi and Hamburg, was that terrorism?

It's terrorism because it ahd no military obejctive at mind. Even the bombings of Hanoi ahd clear military objectives. 9/11 was a terror attack to scare us. It worked. Too well. It scared us in to fighting back. And blowing yourself up for 70 virgins isn't bravery, it's good economics.

(4) The attack was beautifully conceived and executed. These guys are good. They were clearly looking to inflict the maximum humiliation on the United States, in the most visible way possible, and they did. The sight of those two towers collapsing will leave nobody's mind. If we do nothing of importance in return, and it is my guess that we won't, the entire earth will see that we are a nation of epicenes. Silly cruise-missile attacks on Afghanistan will just heighten the indignity.

Proven false by action.

(5) In watching the coverage, I was struck by the tone of passive acquiescence. Not once, in hours of listening, did I hear anyone express anger. No one said, coldly but in deadly seriousness, "People are going to die for this, a whole lot of people." There was talk of tracking down bin Laden and bringing him to justice. "Terrorism experts" spoke of months of investigation to find who was responsible, which means we will do nothing. Blonde bimbos babbled of coping strategies and counseling and how our children needed support. There was no talk of retaliation.

I guess this guy never saw Bush's speeches and the reports on his meeting mere hours after the attack . "We will make no distinction..." ring a bell?

Originally posted by LOBO
www.fredoneverything.net...

(1) We lost. Our moral posturing about our degradation is merely embarrassing. We have been made fools of, expertly and calculatedly, in the greatest military defeat the country has suffered since we fled from Viet Nam. The Moslem world is laughing and dancing in the streets. The rest of the earth, while often sympathetic, sees us as the weak and helpless nation that we are.
The casualty figures aren't in, but 10,000 dead seems reasonable, and we wring our hands and speak of grief therapy.

We lost nothing. We were robbed by thieves. It was NOT embarrassing. It was gut-wrenching, heart-breaking and the moment our nationalistic virginal cherry popped, but it was not embarrassing.

We lost.

We did not lose.

(2) We cannot stop it from happening again. Thousands of aircraft constantly use O'Hare, a few minutes flying time from the Sears Tower.

This is true. I really don't believe we can stop it again. It most likely will never be like that was, but it will **be** in some form.

(3) Our politicians and talking heads speak of "a cowardly act of terrorism." It was neither cowardly nor, I think, terrorism. Hijacking an aircraft and driving it into a building isn't cowardly. Would you do it? It requires great courage and dedication -- which our enemies have, and we do not. One may mince words, but to me the attack looked like an act of war. Not having bombing craft of their own, they used ours. When we bombed Hanoi and Hamburg, was that terrorism?

It was cowardly. As stated in an unrelated thread on this board, what's the sacrifice if you're convinced you're trading in for something better. No bravery here. Just anger and an inability to accept that your choices (read your "people's choices") have led them right where they are - there is no Great Satan here on Earth to blame. You're too much of a coward to accept the consequences of your own actions, so you'll kill 2 or 3 thousand innocent people on your way to a better place - yeah, I'm impressed. It WAS terrorism. Unprovoked, civilian attacks for the purpose of instilling terror on the hopes of getting some one to play by your rules - THAT's terrorism.

(4) The attack was beautifully conceived and executed. These guys are good. They were clearly looking to inflict the maximum humiliation on the United States, in the most visible way possible, and they did. The sight of those two towers collapsing will leave nobody's mind. If we do nothing of importance in return, and it is my guess that we won't, the entire earth will see that we are a nation of epicenes. Silly cruise-missile attacks on Afghanistan will just heighten the indignity.

The act WAS perfectly conceived and executed. That's a given. The statement "if we do nothing of importance" we'll be the world's cheese-weinie is ludicrous. The French are still alive, there's no way we can replace them just off one incident. I think we have done a couple of important things since this, and I think the women having a delegation in the Loya Jirga of Afghanistan was one of them. Whatever.

(5) In watching the coverage, I was struck by the tone of passive acquiescence. Not once, in hours of listening, did I hear anyone express anger. No one said, coldly but in deadly seriousness, "People are going to die for this, a whole lot of people." There was talk of tracking down bin Laden and bringing him to justice. "Terrorism experts" spoke of months of investigation to find who was responsible, which means we will do nothing. Blonde bimbos babbled of coping strategies and counseling and how our children needed support. There was no talk of retaliation.

Yeah, I was too. I was struck by the same feeling inside me. It was beyond anger for that moment. That wasn't even the appropriate moment for anger. There was too much human tragedy, too much grief. The talk of cleaning up - not retaliation - came at the appropriate time.

Unlike the WTC attacks, when the Alfred P. Murrah building was bombed, there was a MUCH different feeling both in myself and in the coverage. That was the first instance of violation - and there was immediate anger.

We had two warnings that eventually the cherry would pop.