100% PROOF only

Sorry if this is in the wrong section.

1st off I love this site and spend hours a day reading here. But one thing I notice the word PROOF seems to have a different meaning anymore. My understanding is that proof means 100% fact 0% doubt or debate about it. Now with that said..........

I thought it would be interesting to see how much PROOF is actually here on ATS. In all the time that ATS has been here What have we proved.

Maybe its a stupid idea, but would like to see what we come up with!



[edit on 14-6-2007 by dirtyclean]

"Proof" has the same meaning it always has. The question/problem is that "proof" is a completely subjective phenomenon.

Proof:
Evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.

The effect of evidence in convincing the mind.

(italicized by me)

This is the internet; so if you're looking for what many people mistakingly assume "proof" to mean, then you're, likely, looking in the wrong place. All you're going to find here is evidence. It's up to you to decide what evidence, and/or how much of it, constitutes as proof to you.

Proof is simply; any evidence that convinces you to believe, and beliefs are always debatable.

[edit on 6/14/07 by redmage]

Yea i gotta agree i mean it's what your perception of ie (proof) is that really constitutes that question, two people could go see a movie and you might want proof that this movie is good before you go see it, now both could have totally opposing viewpoints concerning this movie, so your proof is which one you believe in a sence.


In terms of religion i believe in god while others don't, i'v seen some supernatural stuff that can't be explained(kind of wish i hadn't tho)but to the skeptic he will come up with some logical explanation for these occurrences even tho his logic might even be more far fetched then the simple idea of something supernatural, he choses not to believe, i also believe Jesus is the son of god again others don't and truth be told from the total view point of perception there are many religions that have a ring of truth to them, so it's really up to you to either just trust, do enough research on what ever topic religion/ufos/nwo..ect..ect to the point were your perception has constituted enough fact, and in this process your bound to make mistakes, because sometimes perception is reality and other times it's not, that's why were human we make mistakes.

Threadstarter, proof does not mean anything anymore. We all live in a tabloid newspaper world, where lies are more important than truths.

The real world is full of lies, why do you want proofs in here. You probably get only 10% truths in everything you see and here from people, so why do you want proofs here.

A persons life can be destroyed on the basis of lies, without any evidence or proofs, so how is the information here any more important than a persons life. Your saying you need proofs, but for what, and what proofs would you accept, probably not the same proofs as the next person.

Society is just a tabloid newspaper, and everyone here knows that, so there is no need to ask for proofs here, and no need to give any proofs here.

Just accept that, and you will find it better here.

andy1033 great point, i agree 100 percent in that based on lies a persons life can be ruined in a instant it, sucks that this is the case and it shouldn't be, another reason why some would say this is hell on earth.

I really can't say it any simpler then this, proof is in the pudding now whatever you see in that pudding is your proof.

Maybe I worded it wrong. I'm not just saying proof that somethig is, but also something that is not. I'm not on ATS for proof. I'm not making this thread to upset anyone or knock down the credability of ATS. I and am sure others also would be interested in what ATS has accomplished in the subjects it holds. Thats all.........

I'm not sure if i understand your question 100 percent (sorry if i answer it wrong), fist off i'm relativity new here but as far as what i saw there is more then one topic that has opened my eyes and made me say wow there's something to that, and i'm sure i'm not the only one and if any topic can even get anybody to start thinking about the truth, well i think this board did it's job.

[edit on 14-6-2007 by WhatIsWhat]

Originally posted by dirtyclean
Maybe I worded it wrong. I'm not just saying proof that somethig is, but also something that is not.

That's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that "proof" is a subjective phenomenon. What you'll find on ATS is evidence, and it's up to each individual to decide what, and/or how much of it, constitutes as "proof" regarding any given topic. I guess the issue is in your "definition"; there is no 100% (non-debatable) "proof"; there's only evidence for people to accept, or deny, as "proof".

Originally posted by dirtyclean
I and am sure others also would be interested in what ATS has accomplished in the subjects it holds.

To see what ATS has accomplished; you merely need to read the threads and decide for yourself.

I think your wrong about not finding proof on this site. If anything I think this site would be the best place on the internet to find proof on these subjects.

Also, can you not say that there is no proof that earth has life on it. I would say that we have 100% proof of that. And I dont't think that can be percieved any other way. ???


Also when I made the statement about proof having a different meaning anymore I was simply saying in recent post people have been claiming they have proof of something, and not even have slight evidence.

So in order for this thread to move forward maybe we need to define truth, proof, evidence, etc............

You're right it's a fact there's life on this planet it can't be perceived any other way but the thing is so many topics on ATS are controversial topics that have either been hidden from the masses/various religious debates ect ect..

The best(and maybe simplist)way i can put this is find what topic you're looking for, read all the posts and research that ensues and i guess it's up to you to decide if it's proof enough, i know it can be frustrating in a sence i'm giving you the same answer David Chase gave me on the final episode of the Sopranos in that it's up to me to decide and even tho i didn't like that ending it's what i got, if you're looking for 100 percent proof like there's life on this planet i don't think you will find that here without a open mind, hey look if we had that 100 proof of fact you're looking for then we would all have millions with those UFO photos or whatever.



[edit on 14-6-2007 by WhatIsWhat]

Originally posted by dirtyclean
I think your wrong about not finding proof on this site. If anything I think this site would be the best place on the internet to find proof on these subjects.

It can be, but the issue is that you're not taking into account the fact that "proof" is an entirely subjective phenomenon.

Subjective:

Existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought.

Originally posted by dirtyclean
Also, can you not say that there is no proof that earth has life on it. I would say that we have 100% proof of that. And I dont't think that can be percieved any other way. ???

The key parts of these statements are "I would say", and "I don't think". Simply put; they're based on your personal beliefs.

I would agree that there is evidence of life on earth, and that the evidence I've perceived adds up to "proof" in my eyes, but there are some people here who believe that "life" is merely an illusion, and they're fully willing to debate the topic here on ATS.

Originally posted by dirtyclean
Also when I made the statement about proof having a different meaning anymore I was simply saying in recent post people have been claiming they have proof of something, and not even have slight evidence.

I would agree that the term "proof", often, gets tossed around pretty carelessly around here. I think it's because many people don't understand its definition (or its subjective nature).

Originally posted by dirtyclean
So in order for this thread to move forward maybe we need to define truth, proof, evidence, etc............

Well, I've already shown the definitions of proof, and subjective; so you're welcome to take it from there.

[edit on 6/14/07 by redmage]

Originally posted by dirtyclean
Sorry if this is in the wrong section.

1st off I love this site and spend hours a day reading here. But one thing I notice the word PROOF seems to have a different meaning anymore. My understanding is that proof means 100% fact 0% doubt or debate about it. Now with that said..........

[edit on 14-6-2007 by dirtyclean]

Then you´d better start with the science contingent of this world.

# Evolution = no proof (apart from survival of the fittest)
# Big bang = no proof
# Quantum Physics = no proof
# Relativity = no proof
# Black holes = no proof
# Global warming = no proof

I could go on and on:- all theories, but some are taught in a factual way

I think you're looking more for "truth" than "proof."

"Proof" is generally seen as the result of a hypothesis that has been tested to the best of our current abilities, and conforms to the expectations of our hypothesis. The hypothesis that your thumb will hurt if you hit it with a hammer is tested by whacking your thumb with the hammer. The resulting pain is the proof that your hypothesis was correct. Of course, the result is dependent on the variables involved. Your thumb won't hurt if it's a foam hammer, or if all of the nerves to your thumb have been severed, etc.

When somebody in one of these forums asks for "proof," what they're usually asking for is for the claimant to state their hypothesis, then provide a logical, reasonable demonstration of evidence (from testing, if possible) that their hypothesis is correct. Claimant says the video of the flying saucer is a UFO not of earthly manufacture. Okay. Provide us with the evidence, step-by-step, that logically leads from the video to the determination of alien origin. If there's just not enough evidence presented to do that, there is no proof.

Of course, there is some debate about what is logical and reasonable. And at that point, since we are not in a court of law and have a judge making that decision, we generally rely on a consensus of peers and experts to determine whether or not the standard of proof has been met.

And yes, there may be a gap between what is "proof" and what might be the actual truth. Are people wrong en masse? Sure. Do innocent people get executed. You bet. Is proof by consensus fair? As fair as it's going to get.

Even our own reality is determined by consensus, so it's not completely unfair that matters of proof would be also. Just because you see a talking green goblin on your desk, telling you to kill nuns, doesn't mean that there truly isn't one there. You might be the only one who sees the real truth. However, we, as a society, reserve the right to lock you up as a complete nutbag for believing that.

William Blake once said, "Beauty is truth, truth, beauty." And I think that's about as close to the truth, or "100% proof" as any of us are ever going to get.

[edit on 14-6-2007 by SuicideVirus]