What counts as derailment?

At what point do mods step in and surpress thread derailments?

Say I start a thread like this:

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
This is about proving Global Warming. Is it possible? This is about scrutinizing the strongest data from the 'pro-Global Warming' view.

I cannot be more clear: This isn't about rhetoric, or opinions, or anything but hard facts. In fact, it's not even about evidence that shows otherwise. It's about intensely scrutinizing the best data that supports it, so that we can truly understand it.

The idea is that we can have straightforward analysis of the best supporting data from each side, in seperate threads, and then synthecize the truth from the results. I can't promise this won't be derailed, as I'm just a member too, but I hope that this can succeed as an "efficient inquiry".

So if someone mentions something out of context, does that give somebody else the "right" to jump in and take a discussion purely abotu science data into a rhetoric filled melodrama citing politics, fascism, economics, propaganda, emotional triggers etc for pages and pages until everyone throws in the towel?

Can the thread starter try to set such rules to get a good science discussion?
Does it count as derailment when the derailer / flamer takes the thread starter asking to stay on the topic and uses that to further derail the thread for post after post?

What counts as derailing specifically?

I even provided a sibling thread so the other side could submit their data that supports their view. If the derailer suspect doens't even contribute to that thread, but does their seemingly strategic derailing in the thread that doesn't support their view, isn't that self-evident that the person is in fact there to derail?

What about if all of that happens by the same individual who destroyed the first thread meant for that purpose the day before?

You should know better than most IgnorancisntBliss ...Lately I have observed changing the subject is your favourite move when you can't argue the OP.

If you are unsure what derailment is, just look back over some of your own posting and you'll see some prime examples.

In my general experiance, derailing a thread usually involved picking a fight or trying to switch the OP''s question or point to something totally differant.

Say someone is in the religion forum and wants to discuss why Jesus actually existed. Another person comes along and won't stop flaming or tries to prove why Buddha was the answer. Totally off topic from the OP's intended discussion.

It's a tough call and sometimes it's best for the OP to complain to get some action on it.

Derailment is in the eyes of the beholder.

If you think a thread of yours is being derailed, ask a mod to look into it by filing a complaint. That's why they are here.

My two cents on it.

Yes... well... we got both complaints filed about this thread earlier today...

You know what's funny?

Looking at page three of that thread, YOU seem to be the only one NOT talking about global warming and ignoring your own "rules" in the original post.

In my experience, starting a thread with a bunch of ground rules never works.

You should know by now that any global warming thread is going to devolve into a man-made v. not man-made or it's happening v. not happening slugfest IMO.

How many threads do we need on this topic anyway?

An attempt was made some time ago to curtail the proliferation of these and keep other Fragile Earth threads on topic: www.abovetopsecret.com... yet you chose to start yet another "Is global warming man-made" thread and are not happy with how it turned out.

What exactly are you looking for in this BQB thread?

Some advice: Use the ignore feature if you have a real personal problem with another member. It'll do wonders for your ATS experience.
.

[edit on 6/13/2007 by Gools]

Some advice: Use the ignore feature if you have a real personal problem with another member. It'll do wonders for your ATS experience.

What and deny us all the entertainment. Gosh this is a sandpit for everyone to play in and you can't go flicking sand in other people's faces and then start crying cos you got some in your own eye. ha ha ha

Originally posted by sy.gunson
You should know better than most IgnorancisntBliss ...Lately I have observed changing the subject is your favourite move when you can't argue the OP.

If you are unsure what derailment is, just look back over some of your own posting and you'll see some prime examples.

I schooled you on Iran history and U.S. "interests" in Iran, which is what the thread was about, but since I mentioned how it was ok for islamic-fanatic Pakistan to have nukes as part of the hypocrisy I was therefore derailing the thread?? I didn't hear any protests from the thread poster, but if I had I wouldn't have complained I would have felt my slippage of my values, but sadly there are some real psycho/sociopaths out there. If you really feel I derailed that thread you're going to need a better example than my mere mentioning Pakistan/India fr 1 sentence in one post and then 2 sentances to your response in another, and how I moved on (in the same paragraph each time) back on direct topic after even somewhat agreeing with you diversion about how nukes solves their history of war. My context was its ok for Pakistan but not Iran, your context was the history of their wars.

yawn. My time is wasted in threads if I dare ask to stay on topic.... then my time is wasted even further in a board business and questions thread about what counts as time wasting derailment. It's sad that you selfish people don't vaue time nor respects others or their time.

Originally posted by Gools
Yes... well... we got both complaints filed about this thread earlier today...

You know what's funny?

Looking at page three of that thread, YOU seem to be the only one NOT talking about global warming and ignoring your own "rules" in the original post.

So did you see the thread he ruined the day before? This time I actually avoided respnding to him because I knew what would happen, and I respectfully issued a blanket request to stay on topic. He avoided that and I didn't blow up until after he had successfully derailed my thread for the second time.

EDIT: Look at page 2. Actually follow the discussion.

How many threads do we need on this topic anyway?

My idea semed rather unique for getting around the typical rhetoric that every GW thread seems to turn into by page 1.

Your link ever states staying on topic. Staying on topic was the entire idea behind what I was trying to do. No mods said a thing to support the idea and keep it real. How is that BBQ??

Some advice: Use the ignore feature if you have a real personal problem with another member. It'll do wonders for your ATS experience.

I tred that before (with the first person who replied (off topic even, first reply) to the first thread that was derailed) and it didn't work. That over over in another thread I tried to steer to staying on topic, and it was flamed and derailed. I hit that ignore thing several times and it didn't change anything or keep his responses from showing up in my ATSfavorites). No mods stepped in ther eeither. Why do I bother


EDIT: What not funny is mods seen the alert and none even posted to merely promote the idea of staying on topic.

[edit on 13-6-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

ummm..

This is a the perfect opportunity to say:

Please stay on TOPIC, discuss the topic, and not each other.

The topic?
What Counts as derailment?

The biggest problem with these issues, and I am guilty of this myself, is that we fail to realize when our own posts are off-topic. If someone steps out of line, and you take a moment to correct them, that post in and of itself is off-topic. Now, instead of one off-topic post, the next member coming in has two off-topic posts to handle.

While our intentions might be good at heart, it only pushes the thread in the wrong direction a little farther.

If you see someone "trolling", or posting off-topic, ignore it! Trolls are like bullies, they feed off of attention. When they don't get any, they move on to the next place to cause a little trouble. Feeding a troll is probably the worst thing we can do. Most of us are guilty of it.

So the next time any of us find ourselves ready to put someone in their place for posting off-topic, think about it for a second and ask yourself if your own post is actually on topic. Odds are it isn't, and you are guilty of the exact same thing.

Sugar, I am guilty of derailment or what . . . so many times I feel ashame

It happens you know, sometimes you are in the topic and out of nowhere you find yourself in another topic within the same thread.

It happens, specially if somebody also encourage the derailment.

We are only humans.

[edit on 13-6-2007 by marg6043]

Tangential discussions are a part of normal discourse that eventually lead back into the main discussion and often add clarity to the discussion. Most people should be able to distinguish a tangential discussion from one that distorts or derails the topic.

If a thread does not cover the tangential elements sufficiently, then that's a good sign that maybe a new thread is in order.

Threads are most often derailed, not by tangential discussions, but by ad hominem attacks and malicious nitpicking.


[edit on 2007/6/13 by GradyPhilpott]

Although I am VERY guilty of derailment and have made efforts to prevent any further incursions into that realm of maddening behavior, I would like to present this...

How many time in a normal real life discussion with someone have you stopped and said..."Now what were we talking about?"

I know that I have said it hundreds of times. That is because in the course of a normal conversation, we as humans, can and do go off on tangents occasionally.... It is a natural compulsion. That being said, I think that sometimes, maybe not every time, but sometimes the derailment can be unintentional.

Another persons thoughts may not follow the same pattern as mine and so he/she presents views that are not in line with what I intended to discuss. He/she is not derailing, just discussing something on his/her terms...

Just my thoughts on the matter...

Semper

Just to throw my two cents in here...

Yes conversations can sometimes go off on a wild tangent, even within the realm of disscussion boards such as this. Many times, it is an unintentional recollection of a prior event, etc. (That which gets thrown into the mix)

But, when it is apparent that the off topicness is deliberate, or occurs because of a certain member repeatedly, it does go noticed here.

Not only by the staff, but the members here as well.

Occasional strays from the topic being discussed can and will happen, but it is appalling to see how many members here do it on a frequent basis. (Which could make appear that it is deliberate)

Topic derailment has been explained. This topic should have been a complaint if anything. Closed.