If the US falls

On a global scale, if the U.S. came apart, I don't think there would be someone to replace it,
I mean even now we're only barely more powerful than many places, of course that is
in different ways though.

I think the EU (as a supranational organization), Japan and PRChina, along with an up
and coming India would become the most powerful geopolitical bodies, China backed
by Russia would become a major military player in the 3rd world, the EU would be a
major Economic and world military player, and India may just play the role America
did before it was the world superpower.

Honestly I see something similar to how America and Russia were with the EU and
PRChina, though with considerable less military show-offey and no Cold War.



Now, as to what would happen to America, well I agree with others, some of it would
split into separate countries, I can see the East coast more or less staying together,
since that's more or less the seat of government.

However, the rest of the country would most likely split apart, Texas would declare
itself a nation again, and would probably go to war with Mexico if they tried anything.

Arizona and New Mexico I'm not sure of, I can't really see them going back to Mexico,
though they may form some sort of Confederation.

California I can actually see declaring itself a country as well, since in reality it has
a large enough population and economy to successfully do so, I can see Nevada maybe
joining up with them in it to.

The plains states and middle states I'm not sure of, they could go many different ways,
though I think they would be more neutral.

Michigan could Join Canada.

The Pacific North-West, that is Washington and Oregon I could see joining together and
forming a new nation, heck maybe the dream of Cascadia would be realized.
As for Eastern Washington, well I can see the state either staying together,
or Eastern-Washington joining together with Idaho.

Hawaii I think would become an independent nation, not only are they isolated from
the rest of the country, but they have a strong enough economy and have been trying
to regain there Independence since we forced them into the Union.

Alaska I can see going three ways.
Either it stays as part of the United States, if nothing than in name only, it becomes its
own entity or it joins Canada.


Ok, to be specific about who would become nations.

Texas:
They have a record of being so before, have a huge amount of land, have an adequate
population, are socio-politically close enough to not have a lot of internal problems and
have the massive amount of oil and money, so they would be able to become a nation.

California:
It has a massive population, the largest economy of any of the states, have a strong
enough government and would be bale to do well as a nation.

Cascadia/Washington & Oregon:
Oregon I don't think could really do to well as an independent entity, however I
don't see the joining California, but I can see them joining Washington as a new nation.
Washington has a strong economy, with some of the worlds largest companies based here,
including Starbucks, Microsoft, NOA and many others, we have good international trade
relations with the Pacific nations, we have both an agricultural and technological base
and we really are unique among the states in our socio-political views and attitudes.

call me the party pooper

central banks across the globe are locked in a quagmire

we are in recession right now but the figures are manipulated

STAGFLATION is growing



[edit on 2-6-2007 by cpdaman]

In the prophecy from Harvest Time magazine May-June 1964 it says in He Sent Prophets "In a couple of days thousands of Russians and Chinese soldiers were flown in to restore order.All the leaders of the american way of life were immediately shot. A proclamation was issued by the communists for everyone to return to their homes and they would be cared for and protected. Everyone was required to register with the communists, and at that time recieved instructions to turn their property over to the state with all moneys. All children were seperated from their parents and made wards of the state.....the final blow came when all adult Americans were shipped out as slaves to every nation of the world. every nation was calling for american slaves so they could humiliate and utterly destroy the vestige of Americanism. People from China India and other over populated areas were brought to America to take the place of the enslaved americans being shipped out to every nation under the sun. (there are three paragraphs of this prophecy i have omitted)

My view is that this may answer some of your questions coming as it does from a genuine proamerican source at a time in history that was critical if we take the long view namely : that the sins of the first generation are visited upon the third and the forth generations (from the second of the 10 commandments)
My own unique (that is because I yet to hear of anyone else saying anything similar but they miust be if i am speaking from God...) point of view is that the reason why USA will go into this trama is because as you may be able to see from reading The Arabists by Robert D Kaplan that US foreign policy apart from being driven by self interest and oil has actually not been very proJewsih at all.
Thus the trama that USA will undergo with the deaths of countless millions in the intial attack and those who flee to the open places... will happen primarily to ensure that millions of Jewish and Israel seeking people can and will make it home to the middle east. For this purpose i believe there is alredy significant Arab ownership of the worlds cruise liners and merchant fleet although i suggest that just as in the Exodus of Russian Jews brought about by the collapse of the Soviet union in 1990 christian prophets and christians giving their lives for the task will be critical in getting these people and all their intellectual and real wealth out of the US and onto the ships for the trip "home"
Now in When the Almond Blossums Word Publishers 1993 the experienced Time magazine journalist and fluent Russian and Chinese speaker has his own look at what he thinks will happen. I respectly suggest to my dear brother that already China is way past the kind of friendship needed to side with liberty forces in a US civil war.
As an outsider i have been for over thrity years concerned at the technological dependancy of the US command and control system upon technology that no longer functions in a high altitude nuclear explosion situation.
New Zealand is 4-5000 miles away from where high altitude nuclear tests were conducted by USA in the Pacific. We lost all communications with the world based upon the atmosphere and the sky turned red The Thor conspiriacy is a book with a theory about what happened at that time.... While my other people whom i know distantly tell me how easy it is to engineer a system collapse and if your disgusting display of stupidity occuring on the 11th of Sept 2001 (when what is in some parts of the world an every day event occured) is anything to go by then already your society is ready for quick and easy take over especially if there is some degree of treachery from your elite in allowing it all to happen.
Now I do not say anything here in all of this wit hatred or malice.
Since 2002 i have been actively in any way I know to get you to safety.
for some however it is case of trust God sit tight and go with your intuitions as God either speaks or leads your heart love paul

Now because you may have taken from what i have written above that I do think that God has some place in the insanity of wars that take truly massive numbers of people down into death...
I want to have a word to say about one chapter in the bible which even if it is not a direct fulfillment of future events with regard to USA does give us some clues about where God is in world war style events (In the midst of WW2 one of our England based Open Brethren elders- a freind of Vine of the New Testament words-Harry Lacey wrote-God and the nations)

Ezekiel 38 begins with an incrediably long incubation period as a selection of nations (including Europe) decide to attack something called "the mountains of Israel" a nation drawn from the nations of people living in peace rich in cattle and "without bars and gates" lacking a defensive attitude as far as their houses are concerned....
God takes his hooks and drags these reluctant nations into attacking and they go into to loot (and rape no doubt) and take control of the territory and they seem to be having quite a lot of success in this; then the tenor of the prophecy changes and God exacts revenge on them for what they have done..... with a massive earthquake among other things.
Now you probably have not read or understood the bible as a military and historical text book but this kind of prophecy fits well into the pattern of real history and the things that God spoke to Israel through Moses.
So first (say in Isaiah 45 speaking about and Iranian President) some leader who has no fear of God is sent by God to achieve some divine objective then having done that the tide turns and something else happens.
In WW2 classically this happened when totally irrationally Stalin and Hitler signed an agreement to work together then Hitler attacked USSR so that Stalin couldn't believe it was really happening... Germany did a massive amount of damage to Western Russia; then on the day USA chose to enter the war (Dec 8th 1941) the tide turned at the gates of Moscow and a greater largely untold story of retribution occured against Germany and once again Western Russia suffered terribly.
All this stuff is not nice and i guess if you are Christian you won't want to have anything to do with it... but read the book and you find it all there!

More practically, as a Non-American, you guys are looked upon with rather confused eyes. On one hand you are supposed to be this shining light of freedom and prosperity... you have what poor buggers in third world countries everywhere wish they could have.

But then you're also looked upon with fear and anger. "Are they gonna bomb us?" You're getting more unstable and scary.

What I can see happening is that the USA will just eventually decide that the world is too tough a place to mould into it's image, and withdraw into itself. This will leave the world open for other influences. Better one, more positive ones? Probably not.

If China does not invade, the American people will have Jericho (the TV show) tribes.


I'm more worried about urban centers because no one has gardens able to sustain the masses requiring food.


It all depends if interstate trade is maintained. Can our current communications systems work for the people instead of money in a time of chaos...?

Thanks, the posts have been great!

I see many people talking about the US splitting into multiple "nations" and such and much talk about these places retaining an economy reflective of what was apparent before the "breakdown".

I would wonder if there would be enough stability retained for this to be possible. Would State level authorities retain the ability to enforce order without federal support? If not I don't feel we would see any nations organised by state boundaries, I feel it would be more like a "Mad Max" type scenario... with warlords, gangs and stuff... maybe national guard commanders would become these "warlords" retaining control of manpower and munitions...?

Once again thanks for the time some of you have put into this thread, this is some really thought provoking stuff! LETS GET SOME FLAGS HAPPENING

[edit on 4-6-2007 by sobolwolf]

Originally posted by truttseeker
I dont think that any country could take over the United States. It's like almost impossible. If we ever got weakened to the point where we couldn't run things on a global scale, then I think they would go to a policy of isolationism, just like after World War I. Then there would more than likely be a depression due to the shock of trade loss. However I don't see the US getting ruled by a foreign force. We just won't be the huge superpower that we are now.

I cannot agree that it is "almost impossible" any country could gain control of the United States. It is most certainly a historical cliche to say, but if history follows the same path it always has, then America will one day fall as all empires do. Within my lifetime of I have seen the fall of the Soviet empire with the Soviet Union ceasing to exist in 1991.

For years it was said by many that that "the sun never sets on the British Empire." It controlled enormous wealth and territory. Down she went too.

History is littered with them - Napoleon's French Empire. The Ottoman Empire. The Islamic Empire. The Roman Empire. The Hellenistic Empire of Alexander the Great. The Persian Empire. Babylon. Assyria. Egypt of the pharaohs.

One major danger sign i see for the USA is that rather than appear as a benign hegemon, it appears predatory to many other nations. The USA is appearing to lose its legitimacy as a great power with a markedly increased number of former allies refusing and even criticising the USA for its foreign policy.

If i was a betting man, i would see a unified Europe as the biggest threat to the USA. Europe has witnessed staggering changes in recent years. The European Union has risen from the rubble since WW2 to become a superpower that's already flexing its muscles. Politically, it's challenged the United States on Iraq and Israel. Economically, it's challenging the entire rest of the world. The European Union has 450 million citizens and territory stretching from the Atlantic Ocean to Russia. There are plans for a common European constitution and a common European military force......these are but a few factors to take into account, but Europe is starting to flex its muscles.

geez! what an eye-opening topic. I shudder to think of this as a possibility. But agreeing with some of the viewers, I don't doubt that it could happen. I also put my dibs on Russia and China being the most likely two that would do it.
I can't see what Europe would gain from a take over. At least not the England area. We seem to wash each others back too efficiently.
and to the viewer who thought that somehow the U.S. deserves it, I would hope that we would get a more fair shake than that. The American people are not the American government. We are also unhappy with the shape of things in this country. We never know if our gov't is sabbotagging us, or if it is outside terrorist activity.

another view i had on this is whether texas would stand strong. i used to live in texas as a full time resident, now i just come down and visit with friends. at one time i would have said that tx was one our more stronger states. but i think it has become weakened with far too many illegal alienss who do not wish to become a real part of the American way of life. they are just here to make a buck to send back to mexico or wherever. i would not see texas as standing strong. imho.

reply to post by DarkStormCrow




Some psychic featured on Coast to Coast predicted that the nation-wide awakening of the truth of 9/11 will cause state after state to secede from the union, resulting in 30-40 individual sovereign regions. The US as we know it today will become a bunch of small countries, because none of us want to play tthis game with the Federal Government anymore.

Lies lies lies, including


the income tax
the federal reserve
the irs
social security
fractional reserve banking
fiat currency
open borders
the cia
homeland security
wmds
ufos
fema!


the list goes on.

I think the American people have almost had enough. People say that we're not smart enough, not informed enough, too lazy to make any real changes.

I see it quite the opposite.

How do you explain the awakening that is going on right now?

We are getting wise, and we're on to them.

I don't know a single person in my very large family who is in the military who is pleased with anything going on in politics right now.

I think it's only a matter of time before the military itself revolts.

The american public is coming close to that proverbial straw that will break the camel's back.




[edit on 14-11-2007 by dionysius9]

reply to post by dionysius9

to add to your list, FEMA is the biggest lie of all! i personally see this org having a major impact on how the U.S. will change. and not for the better. i see it as the launching pad for the nwo.

Its a moot point and hate to disappoint all the Anti-Americans out there. We are not going anywhere. We are not going down.

Do you honestly think anyone would be left if the US were to be "taken down"?????

If Americas governemt fell apart war would start> England and a few other countries would be right in there to try and take control, 'and we'd do it for the right reasons of course'

Other countries would do exactly the same. More than likely it would become a bit like Germany during the cold war with different countries taking control of different sections.

Originally posted by traderonwallst
Its a moot point and hate to disappoint all the Anti-Americans out there. We are not going anywhere. We are not going down.

Do you honestly think anyone would be left if the US were to be "taken down"?????

That completely depends on the circumstances. While I feel that more than likely any event large enough eliminate the US federal government would probably cripple most of the rest of the world, it's not exactly impossible for some sort of localized scenario to occur. I think a prime example would be the eruption of Yellowstone, which would surely cause problems across the globe but would hit the US the hardest.