Krishna v/s all religions!

There is a vedic prophecy,which says that in this Age of Kali-the Iron Age,the main genuine religion will be based on Lord Krishna,and His Holy Maha Mantra:

Hare Krishna-Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna -Hare Hare

Hare Rama - Hare Rama
Rama Rama- Hare Hare

Since 40 yrs now,as the Krishna society,by the grace of its leader

Govindas, first of all, if you listen to most mainstream religions, anything that is different is infiltrated by the "illuminatti." Mainstream religion, whether it be Judaism,Christianity or Islam, is fighting to maintain the power and control it once had. You can't base whether a group has been infiltrated by some "satanic" power on what mainstream theology states.

Religions are usually created by a handful of true believers and then corrupted by the followers who sign on later, move up in the organization and realize all the money and power that is coming their way.

Is there a corrupt element in the Krishna movement? Absolutely, there is a corrupt element in every religion. They don't have to be illuminati or demonic or anything else, they need only be human.

How is something like that defeated? You focus on yourself and your relationship with the divine and let them do the same. Spirituality is a deeply personal thing and should be.

Just my thoughts on it,

wupy

Originally posted by mrwupy
Religions are usually created by a handful of true believers and then corrupted by the followers who sign on later, move up in the organization and realize all the money and power that is coming their way.

Is there a corrupt element in the Krishna movement? Absolutely, there is a corrupt element in every religion. They don't have to be illuminati or demonic or anything else, they need only be human.

How is something like that defeated? You focus on yourself and your relationship with the divine and let them do the same. Spirituality is a deeply personal thing and should be.

Just my thoughts on it,

wupy

The founder of the Movement came to USA,with only Rs. 40. inhis pocket,and travelled on a cargo boat,as a donation from a rich person.In his belongings,were the sacred books of the Vedas,that he had the intention to translate from Sanskrit to English.So,by means of his literary work,and with the help of American disciples,his books were sold in great quantities,due to the enthusiam of the disciples,and centres were implanted,first in USA,and then globally.

Contrary to other religions,where the words of the Master were written centuries after,Srila Prabhupada had his voice taped for nearly everything-letters and book translations.So,the original is here,but for some important issues,these tapes are misssing.

One of the issues that split the different groups is the guru issue:did the Master mean all his disciples are gurus after his death,or only the 11 disciples,who formed the executive committee?

Anyway,with time,most of these gurus turned out to be incapable of looking after their disciples,some got married again,and one was involved into sex scandals...When these gurus left,the disciples,of course,had no one to guide them,and many left and led another life,somehow frustrated with the whole thing.Due to the enormous quantity of books printed and assets bought,the society is now well known all over the world.At one time $60,000 was the daily income! With such money,land was bought,and building temples were carried out,but still,many think the Movement could be much better and more powerful.....and blame the management.

The Master wished a society for simple ,sustainable communal living,growing their own organic food and protecting cows,as milk is essential for brahminical work:very good for brains.However,after 40 yrs,apart for some temples in India and elsewhere,such living is not available to members,who have to live like others:factories/nursing etc...

Just like the first christians were persecuted,the genuine devotees seem also to be apart,and,though there is some kind of preaching,the essence of that preaching is not seen in society.The first devotees were frustrated young hippies of the sixties,sometimes of wealthy families,and there's even a Ford among them. Nowadays,the temples of USA have difficulty to recruit new people for ashrams,and the elderly ones prefer to stay away....

I believe that if the Master's instructions were followed,this confused planet,on the brink of WW3,mass starvation,murders,genocides....would get a better chance for peaceful living....

some links.
iskcon.com... list of centres
krishna.com... philosophy books
iskconirm.com... reform?

Same is true of Buddhism which is the faith which most appeals to me.

Original teachings are inspired and genuine but followers in every church or religion take their own interpretations and distort the meaning.

In Buddhism priests an monks have engaged in disgusting power struggles within their own sects and against other forms of Buddhist sects.

I am quite interested in a Japanese form of Buddhism called Nichren where the followers in effect sacked the priesthood in 1980 and went their own way. Their followers eschew withdrawing from the world into monasteries or temples and say that you have to function in the real world with real people and real problems.

Buddhism is not alone in this. we have examples of TV evangelists feathering their own nests and leading sworded sex lives. The Catholic church had the inquisition. All religions are only as strong as their weakest links.

So,by means of his literary work,and with the help of American disciples,his books were sold in great quantities,due to the enthusiam of the disciples,and centres were implanted,first in USA,and then globally.

Well my first encounter with Krishna was at the county fair when I was eighteen years old. Some spike haired disciple offered me a book then asked for a donation. I took the book and told the freak I’d give him five bucks for it. Smallest bill I had on me was a twenty though so I gave it to him and waited for my change. First he gave me a ten then asked for it back then gave me a five then asked for it back then gave me the ten again and on and on……

When it was finally over Krishna had ripped me off for five dollars.

I was an eighteen year old child and your God had stolen money out of my pocket.

I know, I know, your going to say that good old Krishna can’t keep an eye on all of his followers all the time…..

Well consider this a complaint against your God.

If he is real, He will return the five dollars that was stolen from me that night.

If I don’t get my five dollars back, Krishna is no better than Jim Baker.

I know I won’t get my money back so believe what you want.

I believe all religions are a scam.

Krishna taught me this.

Originally posted by mrwupy
When it was finally over Krishna had ripped me off for five dollars. I was an eighteen year old child and your God had stolen money out of my pocket.

mrwupy, your criticism is absolutely justified. This was one of a number of common tactics of devotees, and the practice was not only encouraged by Prabhupada; he promoted devotees to higher levels of prestige and power based on their literature sales. For him, the ends definitely justified the means when it came to furthering his organization (ISKCON). He was formerly a businessman in Calcutta, and he used those skills to create a Krishna movement of monolithic proportions.

Religions are usually created by a handful of true believers and then corrupted by the followers who sign on later, move up in the organization and realize all the money and power that is coming their way.

Which is exactly what happened with the Krishnas. Govindas merely touches on the problems that beset ISKCON, which included rampant drug use, drug distribution, gun running, pedophilia, assasinations and who knows what else. Incidentally, all of those acts were committed by the leaders, the "gurus" themselves.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
Original teachings are inspired and genuine but followers in every church or religion take their own interpretations and distort the meaning.

Exactly. If you contrast the teachings of Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita to the behavior of his supposedly most ardent devotees, it would be hysterically funny if it were not so sad, if so many people's lives hadn't been destroyed and wasted.

Originally posted by mrwupy
How is something like that defeated? You focus on yourself and your relationship with the divine and let them do the same. Spirituality is a deeply personal thing and should be.

Which is the path I chose after making a careful study of ISKCON.

Originally posted by mrwupy

I believe all religions are a scam.

Krishna taught me this.

That knowledge is worth more than five $s.
And Krshna made you sure never engage in conversation with a spike haired guy from Hare Krshna.
I think Krshna paid you back that very moment.

Originally posted by mrwupy
Religions are usually created by a handful of true believers and then corrupted by the followers who sign on later, move up in the organization and realize all the money and power that is coming their way.

Is there a corrupt element in the Krishna movement? Absolutely, there is a corrupt element in every religion. They don't have to be illuminati or demonic or anything else, they need only be human.

wupy

Along those lines, no matter what your opinion is about the Krishnas, you must agree that they are outside the mainstream. Despite the Krishnas' proseletyzing efforts, there must be a part of every Hare Krishna that does not want the religion to become successful and become mainstream because then their religion would no longer be the same. It is like having a favorite band that plays in small clubs that one day becomes wildly successful and starts playing 100,000 seat stadiums.

Dear friends,

Thanks for your replies!

However,I do not wish to be a negative contributor to Srila Prabhupada,by just pointing out the defects of some devotees,who,in spite of their deviations,took the responsibility of initiating newcomers,and that's how also came across the Movement:when a house is on fire,you don't care who is the fireman!

So this whole material world is on fire,and Srila Prabhpada came to extinguish it,by means of the greatest yoga system:bhakti yoga,by which one can serve,through the disciplic sucession,God Himself.

By reading the Bhagavad Gita,we are in touch with the Lord's instructions about how to deal with this material world,an enormous jail,consisting of billions of universes,created by the Lord to please the rebels who prefered to live away from Him.Such universes are temporary,though in higher abodes,life can last billions of years,and enjoyment much more than here on earth.Still,it ends eventually....whereas in Vaikuntha planets,where the Lord resides,life is eternal,and the bodies of the residents are spiritual.

This is just a small resume of the teachings,that are more complet and satisfying to the mind than other ones I knew before.Prabhupada translated 80 books from sanskrit,and answered questions daily from enquirers,and all such details are available on tape as it is.So those who wish to learn has everything in hands to do so.

To Mrwupy: i

f you are sincerly inquest of truth,money is not important;forget about the incident and go deep in the books:the teachings of a bonafide guru isworth millions of dollars,as it can save you forever from samsara,the eternal cycle of rebirths,due to ignorance of laws of God.

Tp yuefo:

There were surely some black sheep in the family:this is inevitable,as the guru acted in emergency,grabbing anywone who showed some interest,and hot him initiated,but most escaped from this "fishing",and went back to ordinary living,while some showed sincerity till death,and others,just saw a financial boon or cheap self-adoration.Krishna let everyone free to act as he pleases,but beware of the consequences,as the laws of justice is constantly watching the secretest of your thoughts!So cheating is not really possible!

But lets return to my thoughts of conspiracy,as this website is about such subject:howto know for sure who's who in the Movement?

Originally posted by govindas
I do not wish to be a negative contributor to Srila Prabhupada,by just pointing out the defects of some devotees...

Govindas, that is a valid distinction. However, I don't understand how anyone can hold Prabhupada unaccountable for the countless instances of sexual and physical abuse of his most vulnerable charges, the children of his gurakula boarding schools. To my knowledge, at no time did he indicate any awareness of the outrages occurring right under his nose. In his proselytizing zeal, children, it seems, were a nuisance to be hidden away and ignored. www.rickross.com...

But lets return to my thoughts of conspiracy,as this website is about such subject:howto know for sure who's who in the Movement?

I have wondered about this before. I suspect the FBI infiltrated the Krishnas as early as the late '60, as it's well known they were doing likewise to anti-war activists and others. The government was intensely concerned about the social upheaval of those times, and it seems unlikely they weren't concerned about the Krishnas. That may extend to the present also. I think any non-Christian religious movement attracts additional scrutiny from the IRS at the very least. But I suspect that the current subdued cultural prominence of ISKCON has taken them off the government's radar. Maybe the mistakes of the past leading to ISKCON's decline have left them better off and less vulnerable to criticism and suspicion in the present.

As a member of ISKCON, do feel that such an infiltration has taken place? and if so, why? Also, do you think it would difficult for the organization to be infiltrated by an outside entity?

Originally posted by yuefo

Originally posted by govindas
I do not wish to be a negative contributor to Srila Prabhupada,by just pointing out the defects of some devotees...

Govindas, that is a valid distinction. However, I don't understand how anyone can hold Prabhupada unaccountable for the countless instances of sexual and physical abuse of his most vulnerable charges, the children of his gurakula boarding schools. To my knowledge, at no time did he indicate any awareness of the outrages occurring right under his nose. In his proselytizing zeal, children, it seems, were a nuisance to be hidden away and ignored. www.rickross.com...

This is a mystery to me...When I was in France,where there were also chlildren,I didn't feel there was anything wrong going on,as they came to the 4 am service,and seemed quite ok.But maybe at other places,it was more cult-like.If they ahd any complaints,there were plenty of ways to voice them out,as there were many occasions to do it.

But lets return to my thoughts of conspiracy,as this website is about such subject:howto know for sure who's who in the Movement?

I have wondered about this before. I suspect the FBI infiltrated the Krishnas as early as the late '60, as it's well known they were doing likewise to anti-war activists and others. The government was intensely concerned about the social upheaval of those times, and it seems unlikely they weren't concerned about the Krishnas. That may extend to the present also. I think any non-Christian religious movement attracts additional scrutiny from the IRS at the very least. But I suspect that the current subdued cultural prominence of ISKCON has taken them off the government's radar. Maybe the mistakes of the past leading to ISKCON's decline have left them better off and less vulnerable to criticism and suspicion in the present.

As a member of ISKCON, do you feel that such an infiltration has taken place? and if so, why? Also, do you think it would difficult for the organization to be infiltrated by an outside entity?

Devotees are simple people,very much into utopia,love of all people and God,and very tolerant,when someone makes a mistake,as we are all imperfect,and it's not wise to throw the first stone!

There are definitely more precautions regarding children,and there are no new reports of abuse.Some schools have closed,though. The "kids"now are 30-40 yrs old!

The main reason for infiltrating Iskcon,in my opinion,is that it preaches simple living,meaning no consumption of any drugs,cigarettes,tea,coffee,no porn lterature,no cinemas,tv,meat,fish,eggs,and encourages self sufficiency of food in veg villages:you can imagine if a lot of people turn to this religion,what will happen to these industries doing them!
New recruits mean also less christians,muslims or Jews when they convert to Krishna.It's always a big fight for souls going on!

To pretend to be a devotee is quite easy,but these people may really get hooked to this way of life..and the Mantra ,I fully believe,does have a purifying effect on anyone,even FBI.