How can you say that!? How can YOU say that!?

Yesterday at work, I heard a co-worker of mine say two things that just really got to me. Not so much at first, but the more I think about it the more it gets to me. She's normally a very nice girl, although a tad on the hippie side. I always figured, though, that she was pretty open-minded and intelligent nonetheless. We work at a coffee shop, by the way. It was kind of close to closing time. I was mopping the floor, and she was on register. A customer came up to her and made small talk. They started talking about this guy who was trying to start up a small business and how hard it was. He started telling her about all the hoops he had to jump through, and that it feels like he'll never get started, and she says "Well, that's capitalism!" in a way that obviously means she's not happy with capitalism.

First off, a free market system is a system that's geared towards citizens starting up their own business. Ideally, this should be the easiest system to start up a business, but she says it like this customer's troubles are all the fault of capitalism. Is this just out of sheer ignorance? Did somebody tell her this and she repeated it without really thinking? Does she actually have a logical argument to back this up? I had to find out. I waited until the customer was gone, then brought up the subject again. She started talking about how she doesn't like the way that nobody looks out for each other in capitalism. I told her "Yeah, but to start a small business, capitalism is still the best we have. It's about the freedom to do what you want with your money. Maybe it's not the best for the poor, but we're talking about opening a business here" or something along those lines, and she drops another bombshell. "And that's why I hate America." Right after she said it, a rush of customers came in so we never really got to finish our discussion.

How can a person, especially a fairly privileged American, say something like that? She's all about helping the oppressed, the homeless, etc. Does she realize how much this country does for charity in our country and in others? For Christ's sake, she just got accepted into a pretty well-known and prestigious college. How can a person who has lived such a good life so far, taking advantage of all of the freedoms this country has given them, turn around and say that they hate it? It's like a spoiled child telling their parents that she hates them because they didn't buy her enough toys. :bnghd:

Like I said, this girl is usually pretty intelligent and open-minded. I didn't start this thread to trash anybody or to start up an argument on whether or not the U.S is a good country. This just seriously bothers me how people like her can say things like that, and I'd like to maybe dissect it and discuss what makes privileged Americans turn their backs on their own country like that. And no, she wasn't joking. She did back up her statement with "Well, I don't hate the people."

Not to defend her, or start a big debate, but I thought I'd just throw one little item out for you to think about:

She is protected by the First Amendment. If she wants to say she hates America, she's entitled to.

Frankly, a lot of us love the country and hate the government. It's not unusual for people to feel this way.

She may be ignorant, but she has a right to be ignorant. She may be right, she may be wrong, but love it or hate it, part of the greatness of this country is that she's allowed to say whatever she likes, and feel however she wants.

I've found that a good working definition of "stupidity" is "willful ignorance." There are plenty of people in this world who are otherwise intelligent and educated, but are still stupid, at least in relation to some issues. Obviously, we all can't know everything, but most of us don't think that's a desirable state of affairs, and we at least try to know something of the import matters in our lives. (Such as... the economic system of the country we live in.)

I'd hazard to guess that your friend here has no clear understanding of what Capitalism is, other than some icky process of grubbing for money, which, of course, is completely beneath her dignity. Hopefully, she won't rack-up too much debt in the course of attending college -- she'll learn all about Capitalism pretty quickly, with a five or six-figure student loan demanding service.

As to "hating America," that just sounds like typical adolescent hyperbole -- willful ignorance coupled with absolute surety of convictions. Hey, kinda like George W. Bush! Kids are always saying stupid stuff like that, I wouldn't pay it much mind.

Sounds like your friend as some growing up to do, and is in need of a little learning. Hopefully, college will provide some help along those lines.

Baack

[edit on 5/28/07 by Baack]

Originally posted by Herman
Is this just out of sheer ignorance? Did somebody tell her this and she repeated it without really thinking? Does she actually have a logical argument to back this up?

Not everyone agrees with capitalism you know, and it's certainly not perfect.

Does she realize how much this country does for charity in our country and in others?

A tremendous lot less than most western countries. Do you want me to list your military activities / CIA conspiracies that organized coups and proxy wars? embargo's that killed off children? ...

said, this girl is usually pretty intelligent and open-minded.

So if you don't like the US system and government your stupid and close-minded?

Dark Side, don't twist my words. I didn't say that disagreeing with capitalism is stupid. The standpoint that she was taking was that capitalism is worse for business than other economic systems. This is ignorant.

[edit on 28-5-2007 by Herman]

I have a lot of things I could say in response to this, but I'll refrain from it because I might shock a lot of you and I may even get a warn.

I will say this though; she may just be following a trend.

Originally posted by Herman
The standpoint that she was taking was that capitalism is worse for business than other economic systems. This is ignorant.

I think it would be a good idea for you two to explore this topic that is bothering you so much. If you are both open minded about it the two of you may come out of it with some level of understanding each other.

She sounds like to me, someone who doesn't seem to be able to say what she is trying to say. Maybe she means that she doesn't like how this country treats capitalism. The laws made here aren't really geared to help the small business owner, but the large corporations. On top of that those corporations are also working to take over anything that was small in the first place and monopolize the markets. It's really not easy for anything small, to get all the permits, licenses and so on to function or operate.

That being said, it's a lot easier for a small business to get off the ground here than it would be in a communistic or dictatorshiplike government. Still.... It's not really easy for the small guy here.

Originally posted by Umbrax

Originally posted by Herman
The standpoint that she was taking was that capitalism is worse for business than other economic systems. This is ignorant.

I think it would be a good idea for you two to explore this topic that is bothering you so much. If you are both open minded about it the two of you may come out of it with some level of understanding each other.

See, normally finding somebody my age who is interested in these kinds of things is great. I'd be happy to sit down and exchange ideas. The problem with this girl is that she gets extremely passionate about these kinds of issues, to the point that she even dislikes a lot of people who don't agree with her. I think that she relates issues like this too personally. It's very tricky and I'd hate to get into some kind of fight over something like this.