Please help me change my view!

I have a personal view/belief which I feel is a bit discriminatory. I'm starting this thread because I want to rid myself of this view, but have seen nothing to swing me in the opposite direction. With that said, it could very likely be that the news i've been listening to and absorbing is perpetrating my view. So, if you feel the media plays a big role in this view, please tell me it.

My view: While I don't think all Muslims are terrorists, are most terrorists muslim? To that question I would answer yes!

Again, if this offends anyone I am terribly sorry. Ive recognized a character flaw and I want to change.

Is there anywhere I can find statistics on terroist groups and their origins? How many terrorist groups are there? Where do most of them come from? Which ones produce the most chaos? (obviously a little more weight has to be given to ones that produce mass murder than ones that have sent out one letter bomb in their groups lifetime). Or is that a wrong way to approach it all together?

Like I said, I've been getting most of my info from mainstream media and this will likely be the reason for my view. But is there any truth to it? Is the media wrong?

Please help.

Alright let me give a whack at this.

First off, it's not so much a flaw as it is that you are probably misinterpreting what you see and read. It's a common feeling amongst conservatives (no offense).

One could say what you are feeling is from the media constantly talking about Iraq, Iran, Hezbollah, Isreal, Al-Qeada and other such things. Even from shows like 24 who often show Middle Easterns as the bad guys (24 is awsome by the way), Hollywood likes to play of sterotypes. Jack Shaheen wrote a book surveying 900 diffrent Arab appearances in films. A dozen were positive and only 50 were neutral, while the rest were negative.

You could also be having a mild form of Islamophobia, which could be understandable. They have placed a Jihad on America, and many western contries, which is why there are terrorist attacks. The point of a Jihad is to instill so much fear that you will convert to Islam.

It is increadibly hard say how many terrorists there actually are. The reason is that most people are driven terrorism, not waking up one day saying, "Death to America". Terrorism is the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes. So to jugde how many there are you must see how many claim to be part of an organization who supports terrorism, or someone who has taken part in terrorism.

Reports say there is only a couple thousand in Al-Queada, and there are hundred of millions in the Middle East. Thats not many at all compaired to how many live there.


A question arises though, do you count people who blow up things in Iraq? I would say no, because if someone invaded our country I would be doing the same thing, trying everything possible to get them to leave and get out. We invaded Iraq so we cannot count everyone in Iraq who fights against our troops terrorists, they just meerly want us out.

I hope my post in some way helped!

-Reform America

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 17/5/2007 by Mirthful Me]

I once made a small statistic of terrorist groups.

Some groups were Muslim, other groups weren't, but the most common cause for their existence was territorial. Even the problems between Israel and its neigbours are more territorial problems than religious problems.

I will try to find that small statistic I made, but I am sure someone will post a list.

May I ask how YOU determine what a terrorist is and does?

Edit to add: Because this is personal to you.

[edit on 17-5-2007 by intrepid]

Religon distorts the truth and drives reaction. Imagine a "Red Dawn" scenerio. Would you be classified as a terrorist?

would hate groups be classified as terrorist?

www.splcenter.org...

because if they are, in the USA the majority of terrorists are actually christians (though the majority of african-american terrorists are muslim)

Ok,

Does terrorism correlate with religion?

Or is terrorism a by product of environment?

Is there any sense saying some one is a muslim terrorist? Or a christian terrorist?


I'd be interested to know exactly what the statistics show. If we were to include hate groups, could we say there are more christian terrorists? I am not suggesting its one way or another, I am simply trying to grasp the numbers behind it all.

I've said most of my information comes from mainstream media (and I do read a variety of newspapers and sites so that it isnt coming in exclusively from one source). Why am I only hearing about sunni and shia terrorism if hate groups should be considered terrorism?



[edit on 17-5-2007 by LuDaCrIs]

I would count the insurgents in Iraq as terrorists. It's a mistake to think they're just "concerned Iraqi citizens trying to defend themselves". Arabs from neighbouring countries poured into Iraq with their own agenda - not defending the Iraqi people against those terrible american invaders but to create their own powerbase.

While in the last century there have been various terrorist groups linked to political (communism) and religious/territorial (IRA) these days the majority certainly appear to be muslim.

I agree though it would be useful to have a list of current active terrorist groups in the world and their political/ideological/religious makeup.

Terrorism, as a technique seems to be old as the hills. As for the religous beliefs of most modern day terrorists, the kind you hear about in the media, I think you'd have to be right. Most of them do seem to be Muslims.

However, while the act of creating terror is in no doubt a deplorable tactic, I think the relevant question here is ..

"What is prompting this behaviour?

We need to find the root cause of the problem, and i think "they just hate everything free and good" is somewhat simplistic.

Just my 2c. Good luck with your goal!

Close your newspapers and put them under the sink. Turn off your radios. Turn off your TV, all music or electronic distractions. Go outside and look at the brilliant blue sky. Inhale a few deep breaths of fresh (or fresher than inside) air look at the deatails in any trees or gardens that are around. REALLY look closely and for a long time. You will be amazed. THIS is life, this is where our ancestors lived. Wait till dark, watch the moon rise and the stars shine. Eat a nice meal. Wake up the next day and go outside instead of reading a paper that gets you all riled up. Drink coffe in the early morning sunrise. I garantee it works.... Peace.

P.S The media is not necessarily wrong. You only see one side though. I challenge you to find different countries news reports and find one that agrees. It's like when theres a bar fight. Everyone has a different story.

[edit on 18-5-2007 by DuncanIdahoGholem]

interesting question, i think terrorism is a pretty ambiguous term, others have said similar things, but in my opinion, if a terrorist is anyone that uses terror as a military tactic, then the US military using ''shock and awe'' as a tactic class it as terrorist organization, but i assume you mean illegal paramilitary organizations. (IPO)

i'ld say quite a few major IPOs are muslim at the moment but IPOs can come from any group, off the top of my head you have FARC in south america, you have ETTA in spain and there are a ton in northern ireland.

religion is general used as a part of an IPOs image because religion is a big part of national identity, or racial identity, not because religion causes terrorism. it's a very useful tool to bring groups together that would otherwise be very disparate.

take osama bin laden for instance, he's a rich saudi prince thats hates the fact that america has such a hold on his country, so he uses religion to pull together groups across national boundaries and economic classes into a more cohesive force, thereby giving him access to both rich funders and poor foot-soldiers.

as for actual stats, well it's going to be difficult to find any reliable ones, and if they claim to be reliable then they're clearly lying, these organizations usually find it useful to keep the details of their membership secret

Originally posted by kojac
Most of them do seem to be Muslims.

Ok, from this, can you answer why they are mostly Muslim?

go to the CIA Factbook 2007,

they should have a official list of 'terrorist organizations'
~i tried to access this factbook, but i keep getting the 404 ERROR routine~

Originally posted by LuDaCrIs
My view: While I don't think all Muslims are terrorists, are most terrorists muslim? To that question I would answer yes!
...
Please help.

I hear what you're saying and I understand why you're having a problem with it and I REALLY think it's great that you've asked for help, if, in fact, your request is genuine.

I can answer your question with a simple question:

While I don't think all men are rapists, aren't most rapists men?

Just think about it.

Well, here is a list of terrorist organisations according to the U.S. State Department

Current List of Designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations

From this list, this is my view of the reasons for their actions.

Abu Nidal Organization - Political and territorial
Abu Sayyaf - Religious and territorial (Muslim)
al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades - Territorial
Ansar al-Islam - Religious (Muslim)
Armed Islamic Group - Political and religious (Muslim)
Asbat an-Ansar - Political and religious (Muslim)
Aum Shinrikyo - Religious (Based on Buddhism)
ETA (Euskadi Ta Askatasuna) - Territorial and political
New People's Army - Political
Continuity Irish Republican Army - Political (maybe territorial and religious)
al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya - Political and religious (Muslim)
Hamas - Territorial and religious (Muslim)
Harkat-ul-Mujahideen - Religious (Muslim)
Hezbollah - Political
Islamic Jihad - Territorial and religious (Muslim)
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan - Political and religious (Muslim)
Jaish-e-Mohammed - Territorial and religious (Muslim)
Jemaah Islamiyah - Religious (Muslim)
Egyptian Islamic Jihad - Political and religious (Muslim)
Kach and Kahane Chai - Political (and religious?) (Jewish)
Kurdistan Workers Party - Political and territorial
Lashkar-e-Toiba - Territorial and religious (Muslim)
Lashkar i Jhangvi - Religious (and political?) (Muslim)
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam - Territorial
Libyan Islamic Fighting Group - Political and religious (Muslim)
Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group - Religious (Muslim)
People's Mujahedin of Iran - Political
National Liberation Army - Political
Palestine Liberation Front - Territorial
Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine - Territorial and religious (Muslim)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - Political and territorial
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command - Political and territorial
Al-Qaeda - Religious and territorial
Real Irish Republican Army - Territorial
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia - Political
Revolutionary Nuclei - Political
Revolutionary Organization 17 November - Political
Revolutionary People's Liberation Party-Front - Political
Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat - Political and religious (Muslim)
Shining Path - Political
Tanzim Qa'idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn - Religious and territorial
United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia - Social and political

And this is a list of terrorist organisations according to the EU.

EU list of terrorist organisations, 29 May 2006

And my view of their reasons.

Abu Nidal Organisation - Political and territorial
Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade - Territorial
Al-Aqsa e.V. - Territorial
Al-Takfir and Al-Hijra - Religious (Muslim)
Nuclei Territoriali Antimperialisti - Political
Cooperativa Artigiana Fuoco ed Affini — Occasionalmente Spettacolare - Political
Nuclei Armati per il Comunismo - Political
Aum Shinrikyo - Religious (Based on Buddhism)
Babbar Khalsa - Territoriaç
Cellula Contro Capitale, Carcere i suoi Carcerieri e le sue Celle - Political
Communist Party of the Philippines - Political
Continuity Irish Republican Army - Political (maybe territorial and religious)
Euskadi Ta Askatasuna - Territorial and political
Gama'a al-Islamiyya - Political and religious (Muslim)
Great Islamic Eastern Warriors Front - Religious?
Grupos de Resistencia Antifascista Primero de Octubre - Political
Hamas - Territorial and religious (Muslim)
Hizbul Mujahideen - Territorial (Political?, religious?)
Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development - Territorial and religious
International Sikh Youth Federation - Territorial
Solidarietà Internazionale - Political
Kahane Chai - Political (and religious?) (Jewish)
Khalistan Zindabad Force - Territorial
Kurdistan Workers' Party - Political and territorial
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam - Territorial
Loyalist Volunteer Force - Territorial (religious?)
Mujahedin-e Khalq Organisation
National Liberation Army
Orange Volunteers - Political (Religious? protestant)
Palestine Liberation Front - Territorial
Palestinian Islamic Jihad - Territorial and religious (Muslim)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - Political and territorial
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command - Political and territorial
Real IRA - Territorial
Brigate Rosse per la Costruzione del Partito Comunista Combattente - Political
Red Hand Defenders - Political, religious (Protestant)
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia - Political
Revolutionary Nuclei - Political
Revolutionary Organisation 17 November - Political
Revolutionary People's Liberation Army/Front/Party - Political
Shining Path - Political
Stichting Al Aqsa - Territorial and religious (Muslim)
Brigata XX Luglio - Political
Ulster Defence Association - Territorial, political
United Self-Defense Forces - Social and political
Nucleo di Iniziativa Proletaria Rivoluzionaria - Political
Nuclei di Iniziativa Proletaria - Political
Federazione Anarchica Informale - Political


It's interestig to note that in the US some organisations may be considered terrorists by the State Department but not by the Treasure Department and vice-versa.

I suspect that there are dozens more than aren't included in the above list. I can think of a load more without even trying that are just from N. Ireland (IRA, CIRA, RIRA, PIRA, RHC, RHD, UVF, UDA, UFF, LVF, INLA, RHC, CAC, Cumann na mBan, Fianna na hÉireann, Orange Volunteers).

Makes you think, doesn't it. How many groups are there actually out there? And consider - of the 16 groups that I've named, there isn't a single Muslim among them!

Edited to add the definition of terrorism in the UK as per Section 1 of the Terrorism Act 2000 (just for reference)

Section 1. -

(1) In this Act "terrorism" means the use or threat of action where-

(a) the action falls within subsection (2),
(b) the use or threat is designed to influence the government or to intimidate the public or a section of the public, and
(c) the use or threat is made for the purpose of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause.

(2) Action falls within this subsection if it-

(a) involves serious violence against a person,
(b) involves serious damage to property,
(c) endangers a person's life, other than that of the person committing the action,
(d) creates a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public, or
(e) is designed seriously to interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system.

(3) The use or threat of action falling within subsection (2) which involves the use of firearms or explosives is terrorism whether or not subsection (1)(b) is satisfied.


[edit on 19-5-2007 by PaddyInf]

[edit on 19-5-2007 by PaddyInf]

I would not say that all muslims are terrorists. However alot of they're belief systems are a bit on the extremist side. However who is to say there have not been christian extremists?


Needless to say there is a little spectrum or chart that classifies people as certain things. So if you were profiling someone you would match characteristics. Almost like a psychologist classifies someone into diffrent mind states depending on interpritations and so fourth.

I dont work for the government, however if I had someone in my family that was some left wing extremist or if 30 years ago someone in the family was I would be extremely reluctant or hesitant of anything someone does. and the more you sit there and defend why this is a fradulent statement you dig yourself deeper in the hole. and usually answer your own question. i have been the victim of this.