Has anyone ever actually flown into Area 51 airspace?

My question is. Has anyone ever actually flown into AREA 51 airspace?Either accidentally or intentionally. What happened?

We suspect AREA 51 has missile launchers to shoot down aircraft. Do you think AREA 51 would shoot down an identified civilian aircraft infiltrating the airspace?

Admin edit: I've edited this post/title slightly to avoid the commonly re-occurring theme of "what if scenarios" regarding an everyday person getting into Area 51. There is already a huge thread about this.

[edit on 15-5-2007 by SimonGray]

These guys on youtube have a 10 min video about their flying around AREA 51 but not into it. Also they had contact with the tower, which told them to leave... This is the closest actual flight contact with Area 51 I have found on the web.

Caption From the Youtube vid page:
“Finally, we took to the skies and flew impossibly close to the base itself, and got a fantastic first-hand view of the runways, hangars, and the tower.
You won't believe what the tower told us over the radio....”

It is possible that others have had more successful incursions into AREA 51 via air and ground, but those people were either killed, arrested and black-bagged.

A civilian aircraft may have flown into AREA 51, been shot down and covered-up. This may have happened a few times, how would we ever know?

There are several documented stories of unauthorized civilian and military aircraft landing at Groom Lake.

28 July 1957 - Civilian pilot Edward K. Current Jr. got lost during a cross-country flight and landed on Watertown Airstrip at Groom Lake. Current, a Douglas Aircraft Company employee, was held overnight and questioned. He was released the next morning and sent on his way. The incident was reported to the Civil Aeronautics Administration and a statement was made to the news media.

8 October 1963 - An F-105, one of a flight of three, experienced an oil pressure malfunction over the Nellis Range during a training sortie. One F-105 returned to base while the flight leader (a British exchange pilot) led the stricken aircraft to the nearest airfield which happened to be Area 51 at Groom Lake. He advised the student pilot to land despite the lack of radio communications from the Area 51 control tower. Two F-101s intercepted the F-105s prior to landing and advised the flight leader to land as well. The base commander, Col. Robert Holbury, and security personnel escorted the F-105 crewmen to a interrogation sessions in separate rooms. They damaged F-105 was repaired and both aircraft departed to Nellis.

A civilian plane landed at Area 51 during the mid-1960s, according to one of the OXCART project pilots. It was refueled and sent on its way.

A similar incident reportedly occurred during the HAVE BLUE program in the late 1970s.

area 51 is in the middle of nowhere basically. So, they know you are coming from miles away. Maybe you can a view but you might as well stay in and look at google earth then.

You'll get your ass shot down if you fly anywhere close.

I suppose that almost anything is possible, but let's look the scenario over carefully. You are in command of a top-secret military installation (be it Area 51, or wherever). You know several minutes in advance that an aircraft positively ID'ed as a civilian flight will be entering your airspace. Bear in mind that your first priority is keeping the installation secure, and its work out of the public eye. Do you:

1) Give a "weapons free" order to the sophisticated SAM sites ringing your base, and order them to engage?

2) Clear a runway, direct the straying plane onto said runway, then issue the pilot an airspace violation, and optionally confiscate cameras from the crew and passengers before sending them on their way?

Bear in mind that if you go with option 1, you aren't the only witness. Every ATC worth his or her paycheck will notice the sudden vanishing of a pip off the radar screen. You've just issued an open invitation to the NTSB to come waltzing in with an investigative team, and put out a prime bit of reporter bait. I hope you like cold weather, because your next assignment is probably going to be in Thule Greenland.

They're going to do whatever it takes to draw as little attention as possible to the place. 99 times out of 100, that means you get asked to land, and you get to have a nice, polite chat with some fellows from the intel shop. The missiles, if they exist, aren't going to be wasted on something that isn't a threat.

Originally posted by Brother Stormhammer
I suppose that almost anything is possible, but let's look the scenario over carefully. You are in command of a top-secret military installation (be it Area 51, or wherever). You know several minutes in advance that an aircraft positively ID'ed as a civilian flight will be entering your airspace. Bear in mind that your first priority is keeping the installation secure, and its work out of the public eye. Do you:

1) Give a "weapons free" order to the sophisticated SAM sites ringing your base, and order them to engage?

2) Clear a runway, direct the straying plane onto said runway, then issue the pilot an airspace violation, and optionally confiscate cameras from the crew and passengers before sending them on their way?

Bear in mind that if you go with option 1, you aren't the only witness. Every ATC worth his or her paycheck will notice the sudden vanishing of a pip off the radar screen. You've just issued an open invitation to the NTSB to come waltzing in with an investigative team, and put out a prime bit of reporter bait. I hope you like cold weather, because your next assignment is probably going to be in Thule Greenland.

They're going to do whatever it takes to draw as little attention as possible to the place. 99 times out of 100, that means you get asked to land, and you get to have a nice, polite chat with some fellows from the intel shop. The missiles, if they exist, aren't going to be wasted on something that isn't a threat.

I'm thinking every ATC in the neighborhood is told to ignore anything in that area. And you don't really think the NTSB is going to be able to "waltz" into Area 51, for a minor civy plane crash, do you? Maybe for a commercial airliner, with more than 10 passengers, but even that I doubt. Too much risk of something getting leaked out.

And I don't know if it was valid or not, but a few years ago, Art Bell (C2C) got a live phone call from a guy who was claiming to be flying into Area 51. He told of the jets that were scrambled after him, and a spotlight, and then he mentioned some type of rail gun being moved out. His communication ended shortly after that. Again, I don't know if it's valid, but it was very interesting to hear.

Have you ever looked at restricted airspace in the United States?

Practically all of the western side of the United States is restricted airspace

And yes. If you enter restricted airspace you will get shot down if you dont comply with control tower orders. A friend of mine tried it one time and he was escorted out of the air space by a F-16.



[edit on 14-5-2007 by Trinity2492]

Let me get this straight. Some fellow is flying an aircraft (which can be a real handful at times, particularly at night...and if this fellow was calling Mr. Bell, I'm fairly sure it was, indeed, night).

While flying in restricted airspace, he somehow sees jets that were being scrambled to intercept him. I can believe this part, becaue the jets would be under orders to make themselves visible to a civilian aircraft. However, I find it really hard to believe that somebody who a) was for bloody certain about to kiss his pilot's ticket adios for a while (if not forever) or b) felt himself to be in immediate, mortal danger, would have the time and / or presence of mind to set up an air-to-ground phone link and call C2CAMWAB.

I also wonder...why does the military need a spotlight? It's not like the F-16 doesn't have a very effective air-search radar, and I'm fairly sure that there's at the very least an approach-control radar at Area 51. A spotlight (particularly a single one) doesn't make sense.

This fellow also must've been part peregrine falcon, if his distance vision was good enough to see (and correctly identify, no less) a mobile railgun being moved into position to shoot him down. As with the spotlight, even granting that he could see and ID a railgun, why not just use a missile? A man-portable SAM would do the trick, so why haul out a railgun? For that matter, why use *anything* ground-based to shoot him down? Those F-16s could more than handle the situation without help, and with them in the engagement zone, any ground-based fire ran the risk of hitting one of their own.

In short, it's a dramatic story, but it's not a logical chain of events. I can't say for certain that it was a fabricated event, but I can say that I find it very unlikely for a variety of reasons. I can even explain the sudden end to the transmission. It's called a disconnect button. I use it on telemarketers all the time.

As for being escorted out of restricted airspace, this is news? That's why it's called 'restricted', after all...and believe it or not, it's not all restricted in order to hide fleets of UFOs and an alien base...though I'm sure those are better reasons than the possibility of finding your Cessna in the middle of a life-fire training exercise, or ACM practice...or simply occupying (thanks to St. Murphy) the same bit of airspace as that prototype X-whatever that's on final approach. I never said (nor meant to imply) that there was no way to get yourself shot down over Area 51...given sufficient stupidity, anything can happen. What I did intend to point out is that a shoot-down is more than likely an option of last resort, since it would generate more problems than it would solve.

And to answer your other question, yes, I do believe that an NTSB response team would be allowed to waltz into Area 51. A better question would be "Do you really think they'd see anythiung that the USAF didn't want them to see?"

[edit on 15-5-2007 by Brother Stormhammer]

A documentary here in the UK (I'll never remember the name of it, the host was a rather chunky guy ) a few years back involved the host, cameraman and pilot flying a small civilian aircraft as close to Area 51 as they could get before it became apparent they were pressing their luck.

They were warned off over the radio (all replayed on the show) and eventually were buzzed by a fighter plane when they decided to call it quits and head back.

A documentary here in the UK (I'll never remember the name of it, the host was a rather chunky guy ) a few years back involved the host, cameraman and pilot flying a small civilian aircraft as close to Area 51 as they could get before it became apparent they were pressing their luck.

I would really like to see that documentary you're talking about. If anyone out there knows anything about it, i'm sure i'm not the only one who would like to see it. In the mean time, I'll start searching for it on my own (maybe youtube has it).

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
There are several documented stories of unauthorized civilian and military aircraft landing at Groom Lake.

Well, there's a surprize! I always though no civilian had ever flown into the Dreamland Airspace that surrponds Groom Lake. So, civilians have actually Landed at Groom Lake.

Tim

Originally posted by peter51

A documentary here in the UK (I'll never remember the name of it, the host was a rather chunky guy ) a few years back involved the host, cameraman and pilot flying a small civilian aircraft as close to Area 51 as they could get before it became apparent they were pressing their luck.

I would really like to see that documentary you're talking about. If anyone out there knows anything about it, i'm sure i'm not the only one who would like to see it. In the mean time, I'll start searching for it on my own (maybe youtube has it).

i remember that as well, i think (not 100%) but it may have been hosted by mark Thomas i would search but i need to go off line...hope this helps

There is not "shoot to kill" order for entering restricted airspace. You are intercepted by fighters, identified, and escorted out of the area. When you land you are met by officials from the FAA, and depending on the area, the FBI. Unless you have a DAMN good reason for violating airspace, you are probably going to lose your ticket.

ATC around Area 51 actually keep a close eye on anything flying near there, so they can jump on the pilot and get them steered away from the restricted airspace.

The spotlight most likely came from the F-16 that intercepted the plane. F-16ADFs have a spotlight on the nose of the plane, so that when they come up next to someone at night they can use it to look over the plane, and use it to get the pilots' attention if they don't answer or listen to radio calls.

The white arrow in the first pic shows the light. The black arrow shows the antennas used to interrogate the transponder of the plane.

Just to show my Noob colors here, I remember a Cessna pilot called into Art Bells show a few years back, and he was going to fly over Area 51.
Art atttempted to talk him into turning around, becasue he didnt want him getting shot down but in the end, the pilot made an exclamatio of something coming toward his plane, and then a quick scuffle, and then silence.

I dont know what the over all attitude is on Art Bell here, but it sounded a bit canned, but it was entertaining.

Simon Grey and Peter 51..

The Documentry you are reffering to is an episode of " The Cook Report" called Close Encounters.

Heres the Cook report Episode Guide: ftvdb.bfi.org.uk...

I have hunted high and low to find a copy of this episode but to no avail. Ive even considered trying to obtain a copy from ITVs archives.

I remember watching this many many years ago, and yep Roger Cook does not hang about when investigating his topic of the week.

He hops in a cesna and heads straight for area 51 ignoring 2 control tower broadcasts to turn round immediately.. Next thing hes got either 4 x F16s or 4 x F18 Hornets ( im sure it was hornets ), 1 front, back, left and right of the cesna.

He is then told he has 15 seconds to move to alternative co-ordinates, to which he replies " I am a UK Journalist and i am going to fly over Area 51 seeing as this does not exist".

ATC then respond with " you have 15 second to adjust to the alternative co-ordinates or we will shoot you down".. At this point Roger bottles it ( too right with 4 fighters all around you ) and returns to mccarran to land.

He also goes to the JANET terminal and is almost arrested by MPs for snooping around.

Dont quote me on the exact ATC wordings as i seen this documentry well over 10 years ago but it was one of THE best attempts at flying into area 51 ive seen.

Please please someone track this documentry down.

Update** ive dug a little deeper and i have now emailed Thames Television to see if i can obtain an archive copy of this. Ill let you know the reply, and if i do get a copy ill upload to streaming site for all to see.



[edit on 15-6-2007 by zeetroyman]

[edit on 15-6-2007 by zeetroyman]

Actually they're F-16s. The USAF has responsibility for Air Defense duties, and Nellis is the base that handles it for Area 51 airspace.

yep i know F16s operate out of nellis for A51, this was 1987 though and im sure they where hornets.

Anyway, reply from thames TV.

Thank you for your email expressing interest in "The Cook Report" - 'Close Encounters'

Unfortunately due to the extremely high number of requests and potential copyright issues we are not able to facilitate copying requests of this nature.

Thank you for the time taken in this request and I wish you all the best for the future

Boooo!

Then if they were Hornets, the whole thing was faked. There are NO Hornets that are used for the Air Defense mission for the US Mainland. The USAF is responsible for that mission, and they don't fly Hornets. In fact Hornets don't even operate in that area. The closest Hornets would be at NAS Fallon, in the Reno area. Now please, explain WHY they would launch Hornets from almost 345 miles away from Area 51 to intercept a plane, when they have F-16s at Nellis, which is RIGHT NEXT DOOR.

Whether it was 1987 or 2007 it doesn't matter. The USAF/ANG have been responsible for the Air Defense Mission from the start of Air Defense Command's existence.

Activation of Air Defense Command took place in March 1946 at Mitchel Field, N.Y. It was part of a general reorganization of the US Army Air Forces. It was commanded by Lt. Gen. George E. Stratemeyer, former head of USAAF in China. Stratemeyer drove himself, attempting to accomplish tasks for which resources would not be forthcoming.

At the time, the leading air defense specialist was Maj. Gen. Gordon P. Saville, who had formulated his ideas as an instructor at the Air Corps Tactical School. He had been heavily involved in the air defense issue early in World War II. He even wrote AAF's handbook "Air Defense Doctrine" in 1941.

Postwar budgets for the military were cut beyond the bone, and the services were constantly shifting and scrambling to cover shortfalls. On Dec. 1, 1948, USAF established the new Continental Air Command, with Stratemeyer in charge, as a coordinating agency for ADC and Tactical Air Command and the training of the Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve. Simultaneously, Saville became head of an ADC which was now a subordinate organization.

He continued to plug away at the problem, however. As the Soviet threat became generally recognized, so did a requirement for adequate early warning. In the earliest effort to provide it, USAF came up with a system in 1947 known as "Radar Fence Plan," which called for 411 radar stations and 18 control centers and was projected to cost $600 million. The cost of the plan clearly exceeded the Air Force ability to pay, and Saville was asked to develop a less expensive version.

Saville's answer was something that became known as the "Permanent System." It was to consist of 85 radar stations and 11 control centers, in the United States and Alaska. The cost was estimated to be about $116 million, spread over the period 1949-50. It became fully operational in April 1953.

However, the Air Force was loath to ignore the immediate threat, and it built a temporary system, sarcastically but aptly called "Lashup." It comprised 43 sites by 1950. The system used World War II AN/CPS-5 search radar systems that were deficient in range and in low-altitude detection capability. In addition, 36 ANG fighter units were called to active duty for the mission.

www.afa.org...



[edit on 6/15/2007 by Zaphod58]

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Then if they were Hornets, the whole thing was faked.

The documentary was very real and I too agree it was the best documentary about Area 51 I've seen to date. I doubt it will be broadcast outside the UK but I wouldn't be surprised to see it on TV again. It was shown on Sky One here a few years back.

As for the jets, they were F-16s.

Addition: The documentary I'm referring to was not made in the late 80s, but mid to late 90s.

[edit on 15-6-2007 by SimonGray]