"The Missing Bees Explained" Hoagland's Groundbreaking Theory.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by stumason

Actually, Byrd, the Sun (and every other star in an Arm) isn't a permanent member of said Arm. All the stars move in and out of different Arms throughout their Galactic Orbit. The Galaxy isn't a rigid structure, but is rather fluid.

Do you have a source for this?

The Sun takes 100 million years to change arms completely, taking 10 million years to pass through the denser part of an Arm. The Arms are just representations of gravitational density waves in the galaxy.

I hadn't heard of this (but on that time scale, I guess it's not implausible.) I'd just like to see the physics behind this.

It has been postulated that our motion into and out of the different arms and also the oscillating motion of the solar system through the galactic plane is cause for mass extinction events. This has to do with the amount of cosmic radiation able to reach Earth during these different phases in the Solar Galactic year.

Here ya go:

curious.astro.cornell.edu...


The solar motion on top of it's circular orbit about the centre of the Galaxy (which has a period of about 230 million years) can be described by how fast it is going in three different directions
U = 10 km/s (radially inwards)
V = 5 km/s (in the direction of Galactic rotation)
W = 7 km/s (northwards out of the plane of the Galaxy)
Of course the Sun won't keep on going in this direction forever. In fact we approximate it's motion by an 'epicycle' on top of the mean motion around the Galaxy. The period of oscillation in and out of the plane of the galaxy (up and down) is about 70 million years. This means that we pass through the Galactic midplane about every 35 million years which some people have compared with the period between mass extinctions on Earth to come up with yet another doomsday theory. In fact it is true that the number of cosmic rays which hit the Earth will increase during the (about a) hundred thousand years we are closer to the Galactic plane. There have also been some plausible theories about the overall temperature of the Earth increasing (with the relevent climatic changes that implies).

[emphasis Rren]


That page also links to: The Enigma of the Extinction of the Dinosaurs Russel, D. A.

Also see wikipedia's: Spiral Galaxy (origin of structure section):

The pioneer of studies of the rotation of the Galaxy and the formation of the spiral arms was Bertil Lindblad in 1925. He realised that the idea of stars arranged permanently in a spiral shape was untenable due to the "winding dilemma". Since the angular speed of rotation of the galactic disk varies with distance from the centre of the galaxy, a radial arm (like a spoke) would quickly become curved as the galaxy rotates. The arm would, after a few galactic rotations, become increasingly curved and wind around the galaxy ever tighter. Or, the stars on the outermost edge of the galaxy would have to move faster than those near the center, as the galaxy rotates. Neither behaviour is observed. According to Bertil Lindblad, with the Density Wave Theory, the arms represent regions of enhanced density (density waves) that rotate more slowly than the galaxy’s stars and gas. As gas enters a density wave, it gets squeezed and makes new stars, some of which are short-lived blue stars that light the arms.

Explanation of spiral galaxy arms.

Subsequent work was developed by C. C. Lin and Frank Shu in 1964. They suggested that the spiral arms were manifestations of spiral density waves, attempting to explain the large-scale structure of spirals in terms of a small-amplitude wave propagating with fixed angular velocity, that revolves around the galaxy at a speed different from that of the galaxy's gas and stars. As the compression wave goes through, it triggers star formation on the leading edge of the spiral arms. They assumed that the stars travel in elliptical orbits and that the sizes as well as the orientations of their orbits are slightly-varying from each other, i.e. the ellipses vary in their orientation (one to another) in a smooth way with increasing distance from the galactic center. This is illustrated in the diagram. It is clear that the elliptical orbits come close together in certain areas to give the effect of arms

Byrd:

Except the time frames don't match mass extinction events. There's no apparent periodicity to them.

Do you have a link? What's the average time between extinction events? Do they occur at regular intervals? I always assumed they didn't but don't know for sure.

Regards

Something I have not seen mentioned here is that its only the commercial bees that are either dying or not returning to their hives.

The wild bees and organic bee keepers are not having the same problems with there hives.

The difference between the wild bees organic bees and the commercial bees is that the commercial bees are somewhat larger than either the wild or organic bees and consequently their octagon honeycombs are slightly larger measured in diameter.

What hogland is postulating and I have know idea if its correct or not is that the larger honeycombs are affected by the torsion field frequency to a greater extent than the smaller ones of the wild and organic bees. As a result the commercial bees are abandoning their hives.

The lager honeycomb is the one difference that the commercial bees have from the wild and organic bees. Otherwise they all live in the same atmosphere and feed off the same food sources. So the problem is something specific to the commercial bees.



[edit on 24-5-2007 by etshrtslr]

Originally posted by etshrtslr
The lager honeycomb is the one difference that the commercial bees have from the wild and organic bees. Otherwise they all live in the same atmosphere and feed off the same food sources. So the problem is something specific to the commercial bees.

Couldn't some of these bees' issues be related to feeding/pollinating on GMO crops? A blog I like to read has a good post (and comments) on this:

telicthoughts.com...

Bees are disappearing everywhere and nobody's sure why. Though there is one bizarre symptom that has turned up in the few carcasses found in California, Texas and Florida. But nobody knows what it is…

It's a strange parasite-like condition that readily crosses species boundaries as if they didn't exist at all. Worse for insects and amphibians than mammals, and it's striking humans too. They call it Morgellons Disease and it's nasty. Lots and lots of theories on what it is and where it comes from (some of them bizarre), and there are research groups at various universities and medical research facilities like Johns Hopkins and Mayo Clinic working hard to get a handle on it. So far, though, no luck.

One of the theories is that it's a result of genetically engineered organisms, probably some radically hybrid nematode/mold/fluke. This isn't really so bizarre a notion, given Genetically engineered crops and organisms can now be developed and rushed straight to market sans testing for toxicity and without consideration of any environmental concerns, ruled long ago by government regulators to be equivalent to all naturally occurring organisms.

I don't claim to know it's GMOs. I don't know if Morgellon fibrils are 'live' parasites or just strange protein formations. I don't know if it's the fibrils killing bees or something innocuous they've no resistance to anymore. But if they're the proverbial Canaries in the Coal Mine to tell us something's gone drastically wrong, it may already be too late.

Some good stuff in the comments section wrt how bees are used/transported to pollinate certain crops. Has Hoagland ever been right about anything? I don't know, but something seems to be going on here. I guess his guess is as good as any atm. He had me at Iapetus :shrug:

Still I think we should be looking closer to home and the practices of the farm industry, especially GMOs. "Canary in a cold mine" seems an appropriate analogy to me.

Regards

(edit)From Myrmecos, in the comments section of the TT blog I linked to:

Hives of honeybees are trucked around the country regularly by the hundreds of thousands. These aren't friendly neighborhood bees kept by the nice old gentleman down the street. No, for crop pollination it's industrial-scale business. Any disease that pops up anywhere is transported everywhere else in very short order. We've set up a perfect system for infecting bees with everything that comes along.
Also, I'm not one to wax nostalgic about honeybees. The honeybee is an introduced species in the Americas. Our hundreds of species of native bees (and flies, and moths) were perfectly capable of keeping up with the pollination before we devastated their habitat and forced them into competition with an artificially boosted monoculture of honeybees.

Industry/Big Business has a way of mucking up [mother nature's] works. Typical, and getting scarier by the decade, imo.



[edit on 24-5-2007 by Rren]

Originally posted by Rren



Couldn't some of these bees' issues be related to feeding/pollinating on GMO crops? A blog I like to read has a good post (and comments) on this:

I really have no idea...Then again wild bees and organic bees are feeding on these same crops and so far they are not suffering the same fate as the commercial bees.

reply to post by greatlakes


I recently found this article on msn new, it explains that bees are being attacked by a fly parasite which causes them to abandon their hives....
sync.sympatico.ca...