Is my dad a disinfo rep?

Besides which, let's be real.

He's Army. So was I. I learned a lot of neat crap, but none of it was UFO related, because Army doesn't do UFOs. Army's into biologicals, mainly, for their freaky sideline. Well, that and some other stuff that would definitely fit on ATS but it's not UFO related.

All the UFO stuff is run by a joint Navy/USAF group with Marine frosting. That's why you see the cool stuff at Kirtland, NRL, Wright-Pat and the like.

The only stuff in the UFO world he might have seen would be at Lockmar, but then all the extensively cool stuff is at the Works, and he probably wasn't working there.

I would bet there's a lot of cool stuff you could learn if your Dad was Ranger battalion, so he can most likely teach you how to tie knots and break things. So learn how to tie Swiss seats, jump out of airplanes and camp out with nothing but a poncho liner. I bet he knows a lot of crafty world politics too, being an officer, from an insider's perspective. But what I wouldn't bet is that he's up on UFOs in a one-on-one sort of way. He might have some cool "this ain't no s--t" stories though. Just understand that's the other way of saying "once upon a time" and you have to sort of filter them.

Tom,

I'm surprised at you to suggest this guy trick his own father into getting drunk and giving up classified info.

When my father was living I never nor would I even consider drinking with him let alone tricking him in such a way.

I'm going to assume that you were just adding flavor to the conversation on that one.

Personally, I have yet to decide if I even believe the OP's story.

Originally posted by jbondo
Tom,

I'm surprised at you to suggest this guy trick his own father into getting drunk and giving up classified info.

I originally thought the same thing, but IMO he recovered nicely with this post.

I wish my dad would've been around long enough for me to hoist a few with him. I lost him when I was the same age as the OP is now, and there isn't a day that goes by that I don't miss him. Best I can do is raise one to his memory occasionally.

Just sayin'.

My interpretation is that he may know something, but he is unwilling to tell you, and he is trying to play it off the best he can. He probably is unwilling to lie to you, but he is also unwilling to tell you the truth.

Depending on what he knows, he may be withholding from you to protect his job, or even to protect his family.

Either that or he is trying to make you think he knows a lot more than he does just so you can be proud of him.

I know someone who says he had very high secret clearance. His answers are always as if he knows something, but won't quite go there.

Once I asked him if area 51 was only accessible by plane and bus with blacked out windows, and he said was not at liberty to tell me.

Why didn't he just say no, unless he was trying to tell me without telling me, or trying to make me think he knows something when he knows nothing.

I think he really does probably know something. He's probably not spreading disinfo on a large worldwide level, but he's probably just trying to walk the line between protecting himself and his job.

After years of asking my own father similar questions (though they were of a more specific and personal nature and had less to do with his work than with me and my mother,) I came to the conclusion that he either knew nothing, or knew only things that would hurt him, me, or both, were they revealed. In either case, I decided not to press the issue, because damaging my relationship with him or endangering he and his family isn't worth that.

I can also say that my father was - at least according to him - trained to resist hypnosis, suggestion, interrogation, and being targeted by espionage. Trying to liquor him up for such a purpose would likely be foolhardy, because if he was in a position to even potentially know anything or be exposed to sensitive information, he too would have receieved such training in all probability.

Also, depending upon the reasons for your parents' separation, you may or may not unknowingly be projecting suspicion and distrust onto him for reasons other than those being considered in this thread. I had that problem for a while, too (I'm not saying you do, but it's worth considering for the sake of objectivity.)

In the end, it comes down to what you care more about: your father-and-son relationship, or the possibility that he may or may not know anything. I chose the former, but I would respect and understand either choice. It's a hard call to make, and it's a decision only you can make. Think with both your head and heart rather than purely one or the other, and you'll end up making a decision that you can live with and that won't keep you from sleeping at night.

Originally posted by jbondo
Tom,

I'm surprised at you to suggest this guy trick his own father into getting drunk and giving up classified info.

When my father was living I never nor would I even consider drinking with him let alone tricking him in such a way.

I'm going to assume that you were just adding flavor to the conversation on that one.

Personally, I have yet to decide if I even believe the OP's story.

Mea culpa. The fake drink trick is one the intelligence guys do if they're trying to see if you'll leak. For some reason it struck me as funny at first but then I came back and tried to cover my trail.

First of all I would just like to explain that I didn't do this in any way to hurt my father's image or hurt his career at all...


Let me clear up a few things...

To Sensfan: Yeah he's an alchoholic so he's going to drink regardless whether I entice him or not...that's why he's an alchoholic dummy. And I do have respect for him...must I go over that again?

To Inannamute: I appreciate your advice (sounded right up my alley)...but from what I'm getting from others is maken me lean more to not doing anything at all...like it's always going to be...people are going to talk about getting the truth...and talk about how they're going to do it...are they going to do it? 80% I'd say no...I was just taking the steps needed to actually "be about it" and not "talk about it" like most...

To annestacey: I believe he know's something...he's not the type to joke or play around with issues of high importance...that's why I tried to catch him off guard so he might spill the beans...obviously didn't happen.

To NGC2736: Angry? I'm an angry and troubled young man? Wanna know why? Because I have to go the these length's for the truth to be known? That my government is lying to me and the people i love and care about? Your damn right I'm angry...And how am I not treating him as a human being? I already stated...he's an alcho and hes going to drink regardless...I dont feel like explaining my dads relationship with liqour...all im going to say about it...is that he has a better relationship with the bottle then his own blood...period...I appreciate your input.

To schuyler: Yes I do agree that his response was totally what the norm response is from ex or active military personell...and trust me when I say this...I'm not angry at him for not telling me...theres more to our relationship then this single incident...but im not gunna go into that...im angry at the government which runs this country...not the people.

To Anathema: I greatly appreciate your input...your post opened my eyes to the alternative routes I could proceed with this...also the consequences of my actions...will take it into mind.

To WhiteWash: Yes I have "love" for my dad...but I do not love him as my father no...I never had the chance to love him...he wasn't in my life at all for 15 going on 16 years of my life...so growing up having to be my own man...learn my lessons the hard way...looking up to other male figures as father figures...also helped in me feeling the way I do. If I were to dissapear atleast I would have left an imprint on the ATS community...

To Bumross: Na he doesn't know about ATS from what I know...I will take your advice that If anything does come about from this...that you won't be seeing this name posting it. I agree he would be dissapointed...and I do feel guilt for doing what I did...but It was all for the greater good.

To PisTonZOR: I hope he was joking...but I never seen him get so cold and weird about anything...and the way he looked at me when he said it...I could tell he meant it...

To observe50: Indeed a time will come when the truth will be known...i just want to be alive to witness it. I'm in a current conflict with myself to proceed or not...will take what you said into mind.

To Tom: Yeah he might not be into U.F.O's but I believe he knows more then he let's on...appreciate you throwing your perspective on this.

To jbondo: I hope people aren't saying this to add "flavor" ...because I made this post with good intent.

To Yeahright: I don't know If it would make a differance In how I feel if he was gone...it's a sad deal.

To c3hamby: I agree with your post...except that he might be trying to make me think he knows something to be proud of him...seems unlikely to me for some reason...he doesn't really have pride issues...he's done more then enough for this country.

I appreciate your input as well Acewombat...as a matter of fact i was waiting for someone to post who's been in the same shoes I'm in...and will take your advice into mind.

If I felt there was a chance that me and this man would actually have that father & son relationship I wouldn't even have brought this up....but the hope that was once there...which faded while in my teenage years...and all the promises broken over the course of my life growing up...have brought me to this fork in my excistance...

In my conclusion...The truth (for me) is worth dying for...but I'm far more useless dead then alive...and I have family and friends that i care about who I don't want to be in any danger because of my actions...so I'm going to have to ponder over this decision for the next couple month's.

I appreciate everyone's input...and thanks to the people who were kind enough to send me a message with their words of advice. I will definately look at all the angles that have been presented to me...and make my decision accordingly.

Thanks ATS

To Sensfan: Yeah he's an alchoholic so he's going to drink regardless whether I entice him or not...that's why he's an alchoholic dummy. And I do have respect for him...must I go over that again?

Dummy? Sorry, If a dummy is defined as someone that thinks encouraging an alcoholic to drink is a bad idea, then yes, I must be a dummy. Perhaps you should instead try to sit down with him sober and convince him to get help for his disease? Just my 2 cents. Would you throw water on a drowning man? Didn't think so. Think of him first, instead of yourself.

I'm out, this kind of disgusts me.

OP, please re-read your reply to me. It seems you are doing this as a way to get even or equalize the hurt you feel. While I do not consider myself qualified to follow up on that, it is nevertheless very blatant in your words.

I have stated my opinion, as have others, that to go on with this 'plan' is not a good idea and will lead to regret. Actions stemming from anger seldom cause satisfaction for any involved. I will depart this thread, leaving you to your fate, though as an elderly person, I will warn you one last time, speaking from experience, that in years to come you will rue this day if you continue along this path.

Peace.

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
Mea culpa. The fake drink trick is one the intelligence guys do if they're trying to see if you'll leak. For some reason it struck me as funny at first but then I came back and tried to cover my trail.

Mea culpa?

What's that, some sort of A-rab language?

In all seriousness though, I'm sure the OP is struggling enough just in dealing with his fathers problem with alcohol and in some subconscious way he may be reaching out in this roundabout way to cope with associated issues.

Also since he is an alcoholic and used to drinking to excess, I'm sure it would do no good to ask him questions while intoxicated.

I wish you the best with him in all aspects of life.

Originally posted by sensfan

Dummy? Sorry, If a dummy is defined as someone that thinks encouraging an alcoholic to drink is a bad idea, then yes, I must be a dummy. Perhaps you should instead try to sit down with him sober and convince him to get help for his disease? Just my 2 cents. Would you throw water on a drowning man? Didn't think so. Think of him first, instead of yourself.

I'm out, this kind of disgusts me.

First of all you don't know anything about my father...that's the point...so don't sit here and tell me how I should be handling his alcholism...he's a grown man...I've tried many times before to ask him to stop...but him having that disease is not the topic of conversation so please stop going to it, I also said I didn't want to get into that personal issue on this board so please respect my wishes...his drinking is a very painful ordeal for me and my family...but you can't force someone to change even if it's for their own good...it depends on if the person wants to change or not...and he doesn't want to change...trust me...I've seen my mom take him to the A.A. meetings...been to rehab...try to distract him so he wouldn't drink...cried infont of him begging him to stop...doesn't work...my dad's dad was an alchoholic aswell...I don't drink...but the whole point of the liquor even being brought up is because people tend to let more info out then they should when under the influence...

Please leave the thread I encourage it...your trying to make me look like im throwing gasoline on a forest fire...which I'm not...The forest fire is throwing gasoline on it's self...

The point of me doing all this was not to find sympathy in a public forum for my dad's abusive alcholism...I came to hear opinions about wether I should proceed or not...I've gotten exactly what I needed...heard both sides fo the story...now i can make my decision...

I appreciate the opinions either negative or positive. I had no one else to turn to in this matter...people tend to laugh at you when your asking about these type of things. Calling you crazy...or some conspiracy theorist like it's a bad thing...when all I'm doing is asking questions...

[edit on 5/10/2007 by UNnoticed]

Originally posted by UNnoticed

Originally posted by sensfan

Dummy? Sorry, If a dummy is defined as someone that thinks encouraging an alcoholic to drink is a bad idea, then yes, I must be a dummy. Perhaps you should instead try to sit down with him sober and convince him to get help for his disease? Just my 2 cents. Would you throw water on a drowning man? Didn't think so. Think of him first, instead of yourself.

I'm out, this kind of disgusts me.

First of all you don't know anything about my father...that's the point...so don't sit here and tell me how I should be handling his alcholism...he's a grown man...I've tried many times before to ask him to stop...but him having that disease is not the topic of conversation so please stop going to it, I also said I didn't want to get into that personal issue on this board so please respect my wishes...his drinking is a very painful ordeal for me and my family...but you can't force someone to change even if it's for their own good...it depends on if the person wants to change or not...and he doesn't want to change...trust me...I've seen my mom take him to the A.A. meetings...been to rehab...try to distract him so he wouldn't drink...cried infont of him begging him to stop...doesn't work...my dad's dad was an alchoholic aswell...I don't drink...but the whole point of the liquor even being brought up is because people tend to let more info out then they should when under the influence...

Please leave the thread I encourage it...your trying to make me look like im throwing gasoline on a forest fire...which I'm not...The forest fire is throwing gasoline on it's self...

The point of me doing all this was not to find sympathy in a public forum for my dad's abusive alcholism...I came to hear opinions about wether I should proceed or not...I've gotten exactly what I needed...heard both sides fo the story...now i can make my decision...

I appreciate the opinions either negative or positive. I had no one else to turn to in this matter...people tend to laugh at you when your asking about these type of things. Calling you crazy...or some conspiracy theorist like it's a bad thing...when all I'm doing is asking questions...

[edit on 5/10/2007 by UNnoticed]

Thank unnoticed, just wanted to let you know I hear you and understand where you are coming from.

Please respect his wishes, his is a very painful problem.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, it sounds to me that he is just reiterating what he has always been told. That is generally what people are told. They are told that places like you mentioned are strictly for defense purposes and nothing more. He can't tell you something that he doesn't know.

and even if so, being used to the security measures regarding classified info, i highly doubt hed give any actual info over the email!

Well I am new to this site but maybe I can shed some light on this problem....I myself was a military NCO (non commisioned officer as i am sure you all know) and a former special forces operative. Many of the things that we were asked to do no one but ourselves and the higher ups knew what was happening. The information we were given was and still is secret. The problems we could have from letting this information out to the public could be all she wrote. We face years in prison and possible death sentences depending on the information divulged. So I would suggest that the subject be closed and do not pursue it to far. FOR HIS SAKE.

I'm retired Canadian military. There are alot of things that I can't talk about, and I don't know anything that would be of interest to anyone. I have friends that have been in interesting places and answer with the 'I could tell you but I'd have to shoot you' line. And while they are joking, they are also serious in that they can't tell you about some things. Then there are the guys that retire after years of service and crawl into a bottle for years. These guys are usually dealing with something that they can't talk about and can't live with, without talking it out. It's the old catch 22 deal. Talk, breaking your oath and the law, risking prosecution or worse, endanger your family and get help from someone or stay quiet and drink until you can't remember it.
Now, I can't say anything about your Dad. I don't know the man and I don't know you or your family. But from his service I imagine that he's got some nasty secrets in his head that the military or government don't want to come out. And I'm willing to bet that they have something to do with his drinking. Asking him questions about that part of his life won't do him or you any good, it can only make things worse. If I were you, I'd just get to know the man and leave the secrets buried where they are. If there's something that he wants or needs to tell you, he will. But if you try interogating him, you're likely to find yourself up against a drunk, pissed off Army Ranger. That's a situation that leads quickly to the emergency department of the local hospital.
I apologize if I have offended anyone here, but this comes from my experience and the heart. Deal with the father and forget the secrets.

Well, I think you are being extremely disrepectful to your father....extremely. I mean, if the dude abused you all your life, then id feel differently.

My husband is in the Air Force. He has top secret clearance. Id die by my own hands before I ever told anyone anything he were to tell me that was considered "secret".

But im also a very firm believer in: some things need to be kept secret and away from Joe Schmo civlian.

Respect your father and stop berating him with questions. And if he does tell you something, respect him and keep it to yourself.

reply to post by UNnoticed


UNnoticed, I'm going to have to be honest with you.

If I was your dad, I probably would be very pissed off at you for sharing the e-mails, including for creating this thread in public, too.

That's funny though, "Sup pop?"

But again, let's hope you're not making some sort of a hoax just for the attention and some ATS points.

[edit on 14-10-2007 by TheoOne]

You are a freak for even asking if your Dad is some kind of weirdo.

Shame on you.

This is why your father dont know the truth:



The secrecy around these things are not based on ranks like top secret clearance. You do not get access to them just based on rank by default.

There are entire layers above the public levels, hidden from the president and everybody below him.

Ive read other documents concerning NASA. Its the same thing there. Some people know there is a cover up, some dont, and it has nothing to do with their rank. Thats why some NASA employees believe there is nothing being covered up. They dont know.