Enough of the Area 51 Infiltration Plans already!

I've had enough of the imaginitive ideas on how to break into Groom Lake. Sorry to rant, but they take up space and add NOTHING to the mission and goals of Above Top Secret. Personally, I feel they Promote the very Ignorance we're here to deny. A few were ok, but this is Way Too Much!

Trying to break into Area 51 is stupid for several reasons:

1. It's Against the LAW! The signs at the border tell you that.
   
2. You're not going to see anything! All of the building are locked, and base security will go on high aleart the second the security perimeter is broken
   
3. The base has toxic materials. If you get near the wrong thing you might even kill yourself
   
4. The Facility is there for the security of our country. What do you hope to gain by compramising US national security?
   

As Avation Photojournalist Mark Farmer said:

No one has ever been able to penetrate the base, and someone would have to be extra stupid to try.

Can we use the space on this form for something more productive then the absurd ideas people have for breaking into Area 51?

I'm calling on the members of this borad to end these pointless scemeing threads and move on to something more useful. The time to Deny the Ignoance of these ideas has come!

Tim

Ghost,

Although the idea is enticing and it may be fun to imagine being sneaky enough to get it, I have to agree with you on this one. The idea is just plain ludicrous and will not happen, nor does it need to be expressed any longer.
As you point out, it's illegal and so far as that goes, we may as well just have an illegal activities thread that we think we could all get away with it.

Area 51 and any other government facility that posts its warnings need to be respected. This is not a Hollywood movie that ends with the heroes exposing a national threat. This is real life and on the contrary, there may be a darned good reason that secrets are kept secrets from us...in the interest of national security.

As most adults can assure anybody else, "Be careful what you ask for".
People, for those of you who think about this stuff too much; what would you do with the information that you imagine you may get???

I like to dream as much as anybody, but face the facts here, it's not going to happen!!!!

So, back to denying ignorance..........Peace, Mondo

Oh, puh-leez

You think the federal government, with 10,000 federal agents, thousands of judges, the power of subpoena, thousands of attorneys, a budget in the trillions and 50 federal prisons to put people in stands a chance against the combined genius demonstrated at ATS?

Many people may think you are being too harsh because the idea of "breaking into" a military facility with the intent of stealing classified material or information is absurd. They might say that these plans are so ludicrous and reckless that they are obviously just jokes. The threads are just fantasies where people with a deep yearning to uncover a great mystery can vent their frustrations, right?

It may be a joke, fantasy, dream, or whatever you want to call it. Hopefully these ideas are not meant to be taken too seriously. But let me take it a step farther and say that soliciting classified information of any kind is just as dangerous as trying to sneak onto a military base, and I've seen plenty of examples of people outright asking if others could tell them about some classified program they heard about somewhere. Again, I doubt anyone with a security clearance will take these requests seriously. They aren't going to risk losing their job, harming their country, and maybe going to prison over something so silly. But I still think that it is very important to remind others that things are classified for a reason, and asking people to disclose classified information is wrong.

Thanks for starting this thread and letting me get up on my soapbox for a bit. I'll stand down now.

I agree 100%. whether it's serious, a joke, or whatever, it's just incredibly stupid and not something that should take up any more space on this board.

the simple fact is, if it's a joke, it's been done to death, and if it's a serious idea, it's completely impossible under normal circumstances. if you try to 'break in' you will either be arrested, or killed. it's completely idiotic and I'm sick of seeing topics about it.

Yeah, I definitely agree. But only 90%. This bit bugged me:

The Facility is there for the security of our country. What do you hope to gain by compramising US national security?

Only because it reads like 'The government is only there to serve the interests of its people'. I know that's not exactly what you meant, and I know you're writing this post in the belief that there's absolutely zero alien-related projects going on at Area 51, but the attitude is just a little worrying. It stops just short of calling all UFOlogists 'terrorists' (after all, if they're trying to uncover a secret deemed important to 'national security', then they're trying to compromise US national security right?)

Do you really trust your government that much? Do you believe that the 'national security' card is only ever used when justified? Are you really willing to just say 'Okay, Father knows best'?

Seems to me you wouldn't be on a forum like this if that was your attitude, but it's certainly the way that section of your post reads. In terms of the 'how' - yes, absolutely deluded, completely impossible, 100% pointless. In terms of the 'why' though - I think there's validity there.

[edit on 8-5-2007 by TheStev]

Originally posted by TheStev
. . . the attitude is just a little worrying. It stops just short of calling all UFOlogists 'terrorists' (after all, if they're trying to uncover a secret deemed important to 'national security', then they're trying to compromise US national security right?)

Do you really trust your government that much? Do you believe that the 'national security' card is only ever used when justified? Are you really willing to just say 'Okay, Father knows best'?

Seems to me you wouldn't be on a forum like this if that was your attitude, but it's certainly the way that section of your post reads.
[edit on 8-5-2007 by TheStev]

No, My point is that while I do believe our government has way too much curruption and mismanagement in it, there is still an effort for the common good in there somewhere.

Is the secrecy Excessive? -In many ways Yes without a doubt!

However, I believe that for the most part, the research at Groom Lake is geared for the greater good of America. Look at some of the technolgy that has come from Groom Lake over the years:

High Speed Supersonics: For over 25 years, Planes from Area 51 could outrun missiles to give us the heads up on thoes who were trying to harm our country. The work of these aircraft help US win the Cold War.

Stealth: Would you like to guess how many pilots have come home from war becaues of America's secret radar evading planes?

UAV: While I have my personal feeling on some aspects of UAV, they do take our pilots out of the line of fire. When you remember that the people flying these planes are usually people with families, I'd say it's a welcome help.

Intelligence: Testing and reverse engineering of forigen hardware has given us a combat edge. They say our newest fighters can outfly Migs and other enemy aircraft. Did you ever stop to think how they arrived at that conclusion? (Has anyone thought that just maybe they flew an F-22 out to Groom Lake and tested it against a Real Mig?)

Yes, Area 51 has been the center of conspiracies and even downright dangerous activities. Some of the things they are hiding are long overdew for public disclosure. The reseach we do here at ATS and in other places helps keep the military and intelligence folks honest, because they know they're being watched. However, when use appropreatly and with discresion, secrecy can and does serve a critical porpose in protecting the security of America! Secrets aren't always a bad thing!

Tim

[edit on 5/8/2007 by Ghost01]

Absolutely agree with everything you've said Tim. Some secrecy is necessary. In fact, I'll go so far as to say this: in many ways I believe most people aren't ready to hear some of the things kept secret. I feel I am of course

For me the main issue here is anything extraterrestrial in nature. No nation in the world has the right to keep that secret. Any citizens of any country keeping that secret have a duty to the world to uncover that secret.

Granted the testimonies of people with alleged experience with the facility are questionable at best. Some of the moves performed by craft filmed over that facility, to me at least suggest at the very least some reverse engineering.

My point is, if evidence of the existence of and contact with extraterrestrials is being hidden at one of these facilities, that justifies extreme action to uncover a secret that should not be kept. I'm not saying people should attempt to break in, I think it's a crazy idea and it would never work (all though it is fun to entertain for imagination's sake). But in terms of the 'why' or the justification, I completely understand. 'Just to poke around and see what's doin and maybe find some cool advanced tech'? Hell no. 'To uncover the greatest secret kept from man'? Absolutely.

On a more general secrecy/conspiracy note, I would say that at the end of the day it comes down to trust. Do you trust your governments and the people who pay to put them in place (and keep them there) to decide what you should or shouldn't know? Personally, I wouldn't.

Your point about military secrets and the wartime advantage of secrecy brings up the idea of the perpetual war starting with the cold war into the war on terror, but I don't really want to get into that.

Tim,
Much respect for this post.

May I play Devil's Advocate ?
Thanks.

Remember when you first heard of Area 51, Groom Lake, Dreamland, The
Ranch...etc, ad nauseum ?

I do. I was 11, and it was before Bob made his claims.

I remember thinking, how cool would it be to sneak into an area like this.
Years before the internet, all I had were my other friends to co-conspire
with.

30 some-odd years later, here we are. With internet access.
We are no longer those 3 or 4 kids "conspiring" to do something neat.
We have people still learning about Groom, though it's been known
about for some time.

I'm going to assume (yes, I know) that those aspiring to infiltrate Groom
are young, and just learning about the base.
They just have a bigger playground, than you and I did.

Maybe a sticky thread on A-51 infiltration needs to be made, so those just
learning of the area can get the notion, it's not do-able.

Anyway,
Lex

[edit on 8-5-2007 by Lexion]

Originally posted by TheStev
'To uncover the greatest secret kept from man'? Absolutely.

Absolutely not. It doesn't matter what the secret is, it's wrong to attempt to compromise it. If you could justify compromising classified information by saying "oh, well I thought this was a huge secret, so the world deserved to know it" then the system would fall apart completely.

It does come down to trusting others, but I contend that if you don't trust them, you need to find some other solution rather than just disobeying. You seem to want to limit what kind of information the government is allowed to keep secret, and certainly there could be legislation that does just that. Organize a campaign to get congress to pass such a law, maybe, but don't just presume that you know better than they do. That's really what you're doing, and I have to respectfully disagree with it.

Bottom line: regardless of whether the secret is big or small, important or trivial, you should respect the classifying authority by protecting it from unauthorized disclosure.

Note that I'm not trying to say that you support these infiltration plans or leaking classified information or anything else. You simply said you understand their justification for wanting to do it, and I'm simply disagreeing with you. There's no rational justification possible. It's not acceptable to try to steal classified information, and it's not acceptable to ask others to divulge classified information, period.

Such a law would never work. If anything can legally be kept secret, then anything can be kept secret. It's a problem with government secrecy: once you start there's no way to know where things stop. If one thing is allowed to be hidden, then anything can be hidden under the guise of being something that is allowed to be hidden.

I understand where you're coming from, and I understand that to a large extent you're playing devil's advocate (perhaps - 'putting forward a point more for argument's sake' would be a more accurate description) and that's fine cause I'm basically doing the same.

But honestly:

It doesn't matter what the secret is, it's wrong to attempt to compromise it.

You can't truly believe that? Let me suggest some secrets:

-Awareness of a cure for cancer
-Awareness of a cure for any widespread disease killing millions of people
-Awareness of exterrestrial beings
-Awareness of a person or persons who could be dangerous, or ot even kill,her people
-Awareness any free-energy techniques or technologies
-Awareness of any technology which could benefit the environment.

All of these thing are things that could easily be kept secret (and possible are being kept secret) that you must agree the world has a right to know and no group, government or person has a right to keep secret. (okay, maybe not 'must', but I would be very surprised if you could come up with a decent justification for keeping a secret, that, by it's secret nature, is in fact killing people).

And as I mentioned earlier, such is the nature of government secrecy that if something can be kept secret, anything can be kept secret. So we really have no way of knowing if the above things are being kept secret. How would your proposed law work? Before something can be classified secret it must pass congressional approval? But as soon as it is put before congress it ceases to be a secret, so what's the point? Do you get what I mean? Some secrets mean, potentially, any secrets.

Bottom line: regardless of whether the secret is big or small, important or trivial, you should respect the classifying authority by protecting it from unauthorized disclosure.

I will respect the classifying authority when the authorities classifying earn my respect. So far, the people responsible for classifying things - and indeed governments in general - have shown no interests other than their own, and those of the groups/lobbies/corporations who have worked to put them in power.

I agree that authorities should be respected. But more importantly, such authorities should be deserving of respect. Currently, they are not, therefore they get none from me. If you can provide another suggestion for me, I'm all for considering it. As I stated above I see no way a law would work. 'Vote for someone different'? You and I both know it's 'meet the new boss same as the old boss'.

The system does not work. Surely you can agree with that. I'm not saying dissent and extreme action is the best course, but frankly I see no other course. If you have one you would like to suggest, as I say, I'd be completely open to it. But looking at the current situation with realistic expectations, I see no action which can fairly judge the suitability of secrets kept by any government.

Do you honestly put so much trust in your elected officials to believe they would only ever do what was best for you, only ever keep a secret if it was in your best interest/the best interest of 'the people'?

[edit on 8-5-2007 by TheStev]

Originally posted by Lexion
Tim,
Much respect for this post.

May I play Devil's Advocate ?
Thanks.

Remember when you first heard of Area 51, Groom Lake, Dreamland, The
Ranch...etc, ad nauseum ?

I sure do Lex! At the time I was 10 years old. I was reading a book on the F-117 Stealth Fighter and in a section on the Have Blue, it mentioned that the plane made it's first flight from a Top Secret test facility at Groom Lake. I dropped the book and ran off to get a map. I remember feeling a little bit disapponted that my mom's map didn't have Groom Lake on it.

30 some-odd years later, here we are. With internet access.
We are no longer those 3 or 4 kids "conspiring" to do something neat.
We have people still learning about Groom, though it's been known
about for some time.

Heck, it's been 14 years since I first learned of the existance of Groom Lake, and I'm still trying to learn more about it. You and I still have questions about Groom Lake, or we probably wouldn't post in this forum as much as we do. Right?

Maybe a sticky thread on A-51 infiltration needs to be made, so those just learning of the area can get the notion, it's not do-able.

I agree with that one! I have nothing against people wanting to learn, but the whole "Infiltrating Area 51" has gotten out of hand. I want to learn about the base as mauch as every other person on this forum. However my years of research have lead me to take a more realistic view of things.

Personally, I would like to see the creation of a "Super Thread" that would stick to the top that would be for ongoing research into Area 51 and it's Black Projects!

I think this would do more to satisfy our intrests then all these pointless threads on trying to sneek onto the base!

Tim

[edit on 5/9/2007 by Ghost01]

What I'm getting ready to say, should never have to be said... but...

In this day and age, you shouldn't even joke about something as serious as trying to get into a Restricted Military Installation.

There's a chance that the US government already keeps track of this site. Obviously because of it's content, and because of the open minded (and like minded) posters which are quite a vast underground population with people from all over the world.

Oh, and if they keep track of this thread, and they come across the Area 51 forum, than you're pretty much filling in a form with the heading "What We Could Do Better". By trying to exploit the base, by trying to think of as many methods as possible of invasion, and finally, by posting, you're pretty much making their fortification stronger.

If this base is doing nothing but good for your country, then you guys have to check yo'selves.

Originally posted by All Seeing Guy
There's a chance that the US government already keeps track of this site. Obviously because of it's content, and because of the open minded (and like minded) posters which are quite a vast underground population with people from all over the world.

We call it the National Security Agency (NSA). Keeping track of possible security risks in cyberspace is the NSA's job.

Tim

Dude that thread pisses me off too. I mean nobody there had any of the brains to know that my proposed solution was the only one that made any sense.

Compel the services of my Ninja friend!

It's that simple. Like I said in that thread. Only a Ninja has the abilities and talent to break into Area51. Sediously guys.... .... ..... NINJA!!!!

Originally posted by Ghost01
I've had enough of the imaginitive ideas on how to break into Groom Lake. Sorry to rant, but they take up space and add NOTHING to the mission and goals of Above Top Secret. Personally, I feel they Promote the very Ignorance we're here to deny. A few were ok, but this is Way Too Much!

Trying to break into Area 51 is stupid for several reasons:

1. It's Against the LAW! The signs at the border tell you that.
   
2. You're not going to see anything! All of the building are locked, and base security will go on high aleart the second the security perimeter is broken
   
3. The base has toxic materials. If you get near the wrong thing you might even kill yourself
   
4. The Facility is there for the security of our country. What do you hope to gain by compramising US national security?
   

As Avation Photojournalist Mark Farmer said:

No one has ever been able to penetrate the base, and someone would have to be extra stupid to try.

Can we use the space on this form for something more productive then the absurd ideas people have for breaking into Area 51?

I'm calling on the members of this borad to end these pointless scemeing threads and move on to something more useful. The time to Deny the Ignoance of these ideas has come!

Tim

it is stupid to risk all for a glimpse of whats inside. As stupid as it seems i will still risk it all to get in the security will be at high but there are humans there and humans have flaws so there is a chance off sneaking in the motion detectors that are around the base would be difficult to pass. If any one has an ingenious plan as how to get in i would like to know we can get a team.

you'll need a team of Ninjas. but really thats the only way to get in. Bet you some of the old Red Cell guys know a way or two to get in there. Probably tested the security there a few times on assignment back in the 90's.

A friend of mine has been there when he was a paramedical rescue guy. He says it's honestly just a very extensive black project base but that he never say any UFOs or Aliens. And this guy tells me stuff. SO he would be honest with me regarding Groom Lake.

Personally, I just wish that all these chowderheads who keep devising these Area 51 break-in plans would do us all a favor and actually implement their plans.

Once these cretins have been tossed in the local clink for a few nights, then maybe their silly posts will begin to dry up.