The biggest illegal arms market in the world- Video

This is a province of Pakistan that has the biggest illegal arms markets in the world. Its forbidden by foreign journalists but this guy & his video crew got a first hand look. Its a short vid but very interesting to say the least.

www.liveleak.com...

Thank you for sharing that. Terrific video.

So like....say I dont have a video camera. Think i could do some light shopping?

The premise of the authors of this video is the "illegal " Pakistani" arms market.

I wonder how much actual thinking is going on in the mind of the public.

Obviously the market or this marketplace continues and it must therefore be legal. I do not understand where the term "illegal' originates as pertains to this market.

1000 guns a day...wow!!!??? Is that alot. How many are turned out by the so called legal markets by Legal manufacturers.

Remember ...this is a 1000 guns a day by different manufacturers in this city or this provence.

How many guns can automated machinery turn out daily?? I mean in automated factorys all across this country or across the globe.??

Did you see photographs of any of these gun manufacturers in these tiny villages boxing up huge quantitys of crates for shipment to dealers or other governments to world wide circulation?? Or were they sold on a one to one basis?? Think this through carefully.

Are you guys thinking yet??

This nation(America) does not just ship a thousand guns a day...they ship thousands and thousands of different guns per day to somewhere...not just guns but other weapons too. How about France, Russia, Yugoslavia, Brazil?? Are you people thinking yet?? You think these countrys couldnt keep a huge shipment secret???

This stuff looks very impressive when you put it on camera in a format like this for sensationalism. But when I think about it..this market would be hard pressed to equip any army with any quantity..both in guns and in ammunition.
I dont know if you people realize how much ammo a army uses...just in training. A bunch of guys in a shop handloading is not going to cut it.

This article ..while very telling is a deflection and disinformation to cover how much the so called "legal" trade by big nations is arming so many other nations.

This is similar to the world drug trade....they show you the Columbians....this is not one tenth of the world drug trade...yet they get most of the press around here.

I am not saying that this is not a issue...these independent markets...I am saying that the world gun markets are much larger ...much much bigger than a bunch of guys in a village in the mountains of Pakistan.
This article is sensationalism to put most of us unthinkingly on a string. Im not impressed with this video.

THanks,
Orangetom

They have the same type of "gun markets" all over south asia as well...so what. Like OrangeTom said, until they can show large industry like machine houses to produce guns/ammo in bulk, how is this a big deal?

Hey...thanks for pointing that out to me. I had forgotten that bit of information.

I am amazed ...yet I shouldnt be... as to how easy some reporters are capable of sensationalizing something like this because people do not know enought to think a concept through. They just jump right on the puppet strings and join in the chorus in a play which they dont even know they are a part. So little original thinking going on out here. Just puppets on a string. I for one choose as much as possible to have information by which to contrast and even cut the puppet strings and go my own direction.


Thanks again for the info on the Asian Gun markets.
Orangetom

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

This reporter is nto sensationlizing anything. He is just pointing out how no amount of NATO, or US troops are going to force these people out of the caves, and why they will continue to be supplied. He does not say anything about how they are supplying a global arms market. His specific topic was Afghanistan, the so called "victory" proclainmed there in mainstream press, and the whys and hows of why there will be no such victory along those mountainous terrain.

The term used early in the video...was "the biggest Illegal arms market on the planet." The implication is that there is a legal arms market and these people are not a part of this club. THey are outcasts from the legal arms market.

Yet no one is stopping them from making arms. Obvously this market is sanctioned by someone somewhere. No one is interfering with them.

I for one do not believe this group is capbable of arming any type of large army. THey can supply people yes...but a large army and keep it up..no. THe arms in quantitys must come from elsewhere.
Buy the way ..do these people make RPGs?? How about mortors??. How about those rockets that they seem to launch from Lebanon to Israel. Do they manufacture those?? Or are they shipped in from elsewhere??

Something to think about!!

Thanks,
Orangetom

The Taliban are NOT are large army. They are a group of people, once in charge of governing the nation of Afghanistan, who conduct insurgent missions on international troops usually in groups not numbering higher than a hundred. They are now guerilla fighters, and an arms market like this one on the border would be able to supply them indefinetly.

I think we need to differenciate between some terms here. A market is not the same a manufacturer.

I cannot vouch for the claim of it being the biggest illegal market in the planet, because I am not a frequent patron of illegal arms market. I am sure most of them are highly dangerou to the indeginous populatrion, let alone any unconnected foreigners.

Somalia used to have a huge arms market, they were recently invaded and conquered by the Ethiopians, which they now also have a puppet government installed. I assume if they had some mountainous caves terrain to hide and conduct their missions , they would probably still have such a market. Somehow they are still putting up a ruthless fight, so I assume they are being armed by some market.

You that was how America used to be the right the bear arms a nice a little amendment that has been modified to the point where getting a gun legally is hard an keeping it to be under certain specifications is harder. Mainly on that video the reason why America is trying to crack on illegal arms marketing is the freedom that they have that we dont. Besides they're small arms it isn't like we'll look and see apocalypse headed our way, or how far do think they'll get in customs ten feet. Wtf should we care about illegal arms markets.

The authors and sponsors of that video do not make clear the difference in manufacturer and market. They like so many political ads leave it up to the viewer to get emotionally involved. To be put on the hook so to speak and be reeled in.

I too am not a frequent customer at this market or any other. I can get arms if I so desire..ammunition too.

I merely point out that this market is not capable of arming and maintaining a group with modern military weapons...small arms yes...but modern military weapons no. I am not even sure that under continuous attack a small group could be maintained by this manufacturing base.

Yes, I understand about Somalia ..and I agree ..they are being armed by some market. It is the same with the Palestenians, Hamas, and Hezbollah. They are being armed by some market. It cannot be a market like this one described in this article.

Thanks,
Orangetom

An interesting video jonSUN. So typical of what goes on the the mountains along the Afghan/Pakistani border.

And that's the rub, orangetom1999. That video just illustrates ONE village in the Khyber Pass area. One village!

You have to realise orangetom1999, that these people do this for a living and have been doing so for at least 300 odd years.

I was told that if you went in to one of these villages with a picture of a weapon or the field manual, these guys will make the weapon for you, test fire it for you and deliver it, in four days.

That says a lot about the manufacturing skills of a so called backward third world people.

Of course they cannot hope to equipe an army, but they could equipe several small armies that serve the warlords of the area. Their very expertise guarantees their continued existence.

Incidentally, I spotted a .303 Lewis gun - the original Trench Broom, a P08 Luger, with an 8 inch barrel - 9 milly Naval or Artillery version and, on the racks in the main village shop, several K98s and .303 SMLEs.

Fritz,

Its been a few days since I've checked out this thread.

Your last post got me to thinking something I read in a gun magazine about the war in Iraq. It seems that Iraq is a dumping ground for many different types of guns from many wars and conflicts back.

As I recall the article mentioning that there were several crates of WW2 German MP 44 type machine guns and the 7.92x33mm ammunition. NOt something one expects to find today with the proliferation of AK 47 type weapons out there.

Also of much intrest to me is the discovery in private homes of the Lee Enfield rifles in .303 british but of the very long barreled type. Must have been before or just after WW1.

I suppose many of these Iraq war rifles have found thier way into museums or private collections.

It was just so odd to see those olde long barreled Enfields verses the SMLE type so familiar to many.

Also I have only seen one of those long barreled Lugers you mentioned and this one is in a local museum. They would fetch a hefty price...even as a reproduction.

The pistol which always fascinated me as a historical piece is the Broomhandled Mausers. They are just so unusual looking. I dont think they are as well known to most as are the Lugers but they did leave a mark in history if short by comparison to others.

Yes I understand the capacity of these people to copy almost anything. Intresting to me.

Thanks,
Orangetom

"While the craft production of small arms most likely represents a minuscule proportion of global firearms production, it appears to be relatively prominent and technologically advanced in several Asian countries."
"In 2002, an estimated 3,000 gunsmiths operated in Danao City in central Philippines alone..."

Illicit trade in small arms and light weapons

" Well-crafted high caliber guns are sold for up to 20,000 pesos while handguns fetch as much as 4,000 pesos a piece -- far better than the several hundred pesos typically earned by farmers on a good day of toiling in the fields."

"While gunmaking is illegal, authorities have for decades turned a blind eye because it provides an alternative livelihood for the people than relying on subsistence farming and fishing."

Filipino gunsmiths are making a killing


Here some sources touching on the illegal gun markets in asia, at least the more prominent ones. The markets that are all over the middle east are really not that scary. In the video in the OP, they try to make it seem like it is some super dangerous place...It is, for reporters though, not people who want guns.All those men making guns are doing it for a job, and I bet most of thier guns go to locals and not large militias. Also, these men have places of buisness, how could they not be bombed if they were truely unwanted or real dangerous. In the end, the guns are not the problem either. It's all scare tactics to make them seem more dangerous to then what they really are. Have you been to a moderately sized gun show here in the 'ol USA, we out do these small arms markets any day...couldn't they just make similar propaganda saying the same about our guns?

Thanx Orangetom.

Yup, the Broomhandled Mauser was a favourite pistol of mine, ever since I saw the film 'Young Winston' where the actor fired one at the Boers.

The long barreled P 08 Luger was another favourite of mine. I used to own a bog standard version, but by God, I lusted after the 8 inch Artillery version. I do believe that a Naval version with a 10 or 12 inch barrel existed.

Were you to find a Luger, one in mint condition, with all the add ons, 50 round snail drum mag, wooden shoulder stock and handguard together with the oft maligned barrel extension, well my friend, you'd be looking at a very hefty £35-£40,000 or $85-$100,000.

The long barreled .303 rifles you mention Orangetom could very well be the Lee Metford - the forerunner of the SMLE.

The Lee Metford takes its name from Mr. Lee who designed the barrel and Mr. Metford, who designed the trigger mechanisms. The Lee Metford fired a black powder cartridge which proved unsuitable when rapid firing as was the case during WWI because the barrels often warped after a couple of hundred rounds.

With the advent of cordite, a Mr. Enfield came up with a superior trigger and breech mechanism and, as they say, the rest is history.

There are thousands of Sturmgewehr 44s in existence and if you are a serious collector, I believe you can pick them up for as little as £2,000 or $5,000.

I have been lucky enough to fire the StGwr 44 and in my opinion, it is superior to the AK.

thanks for sharing this jonSUN
awesome stuff

you guys are absolutely right about old weapons from ww2 turning up here and there. what can i say, it was a colossal war..
i personally know someone in russia who brought back a couple of luggers from afganistan. He told me they had a lot of fun with the panzerfaust charges from that weapons cache

edit: my bad, technically its not an RPG

[edit on 18-5-2007 by gone_wrong]

To me its just wild to see the children squatting in the alley making bullets and bagging them for future use.