Concern over SN-22 Sunburn

I understand this thread has been discussed before, but I am concerned over the Sunburn missile being supplied to the middle east and what implications this has on protecting israel. It has been reported that these missiles travel at a height of above 60 feet above the water. Why are these countries being supplied with such weapons, and what defensive countermeasures need to be undertaken as to render them useless.EMP attacks? electronic warfare, are the only defensive counter measures, short of the effective phalanx i can think of. Any Ideas. Thanks

Concern for supersonic sea skimmers like the Sunburn and questions about the ability of the CIWS to engage those missiles at a range far out enuf to avoid fragging the ship has led to the deelopment of the RIM-116 RAM Rolling Airframe Missile . this system is basicaly a stinger missile head on a sidewinder missile body (its a bit more than that) that allows the defending ship to engage these ASM at a range that insures that the ship is not fragged.

Im not sure if the IDF uses the system as of yet on thier navy. Beyond naval threats its an anti ship missile so its not much in the way of a threat to Isreal itself. Im not sure what the minimum engagement altitude is for the Arrow or the Patriot systems. 60 feet above the deck may be too low for them, but im not sure

For Israel the point defense missile system is the BARAK-1, with an envelope of 12km, pretty much the last line of missile defence.

The BARAK-2 is rumored to be in joint development with the Indian Navy for a longer defensive envelope of 70km+, thus forming a layered defense.

The system's radar is supposed to have an automatic missile detection envelope like this:



It has been reported that the Barak is effective against missiles like the
P-20 Styx(Silkworm).Now whether its effective against Sunburn class missiles is yet to be seen. The Indian Navy will have the advantageous option of testing it against the BrahMos but I'm sure any results would be kept secret as both the Barak and the BrahMos are key assets of the Indian Navy.

I really don't see any problem with anyone having these missiles. If you are dumb enough to go sailing into someone elses territorial waters with the intent to do them harm then you are fair game.
It's no good whining about somebody having the means to sink your ships when you intend to go drop bombs on them

true-cannot see any threat to israel, it won't be fighting hat kind of war it just needs to stay off the coast of lebanon or syria.. true we have had this discussion several threads, sunburn/sizzler cannot be stopped if it is fired in range-navy ships must stay out of range..even the pentagon admits that these missiles are unstopable, i found it comical that people on this forum insist these missiles can be stopped when the pentagon says they can't. I don't even believe that the other smaller sea-skimming missiles can be stopped, like that crappy 3rd rate iranian one that blew Israels most sophesticated war-ship during the last round of fighting in lebanon.

Originally posted by Britguy
I really don't see any problem with anyone having these missiles. If you are dumb enough to go sailing into someone elses territorial waters with the intent to do them harm then you are fair game.
It's no good whining about somebody having the means to sink your ships when you intend to go drop bombs on them

And what happens under the following circumstances?

1) Someone brings those missiles to a point where they can be fired into *my* territorial waters?

2) There exists a 'choke point' in international waters that these missiles can reach from within a country's territorial waters, thus giving that country effective control over that choke point?

Beginning to see why some folks might have 'problems' with widespread ownership of these things?

Who in middle east has these missiles? SS-N-22 operators are Russia, Ukraine and China.

Iran doesn't have it, see my threads on reasearch into what they do and don't have in this arena.

actually I posted a link to a report that Iran does have the sunburn..about 2 weeks ago

Even if the do have the Sunburn or more importantly one of the newer variants, in its current incarnation it should NOT pose a threat to Isreal. Most of thier navy is NOT in the Persian Gulf.

That being said, Iranian engineers are as smart as anybody else and it would not be a stretch to modify the missile to attack land based targets. But again, reaching Isreal is a stretch. Now if Iraq is a puppet state, then you may need to worry.

Originally posted by corruptioninvestigator
actually I posted a link to a report that Iran does have the sunburn..about 2 weeks ago

Where's that link?

Originally posted by corruptioninvestigator
actually I posted a link to a report that Iran does have the sunburn..about 2 weeks ago

There have been plenty reports. My thoughts are that "Sunburn" and "Moskit" are just buzz words in certain elements of the press - respected Indian news sources reported that Iran had fired a submarine launched "sunburn" missile - anyone who knows the SS-N-22 will see the problem there.

Please provide a link to this report. Right now, as a bit of an Iran military watcher of the internet variety, I'd say Iran having SS-N-22 is about as likely as England winning the World Cup.

I really don't see any problem with anyone having these missiles. If you are dumb enough to go sailing into someone elses territorial waters with the intent to do them harm then you are fair game.

Britguy Maybe you don't recall attacks on shipping in the straits of Hormuz in 1987 ?

That is an international waterway which Iran seems to treat as it's own private lake.

Originally posted by planeman

Originally posted by corruptioninvestigator
actually I posted a link to a report that Iran does have the sunburn..about 2 weeks ago

There have been plenty reports. My thoughts are that "Sunburn" and "Moskit" are just buzz words in certain elements of the press - respected Indian news sources reported that Iran had fired a submarine launched "sunburn" missile - anyone who knows the SS-N-22 will see the problem there.

Please provide a link to this report. Right now, as a bit of an Iran military watcher of the internet variety, I'd say Iran having SS-N-22 is about as likely as England winning the World Cup.

respected Indian news sources reported that Iran had fired a submarine launched "sunburn" missile - anyone who knows the SS-N-22 will see the problem there.

read:

The Moskit was originally designed to be ship launched, but variants have been adapted to be launched from land (modified trucks), underwater (submarines) and air (reportedly the Sukhoi Su-33, a naval variant of the Sukhoi Su-27). The missile can carry conventional and nuclear warheads
.
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by planeman
There have been plenty reports. My thoughts are that "Sunburn" and "Moskit" are just buzz words in certain elements of the press

Ahh, Planeman. I see your back with your in depth Google analysis of all things Military. Not on Google Earth? Then it doesn't exist...

Originally posted by planeman
- respected Indian news sources reported that Iran had fired a submarine launched "sunburn" missile - anyone who knows the SS-N-22 will see the problem there.

Sunburn is the NATO designation. Moskit is the Russian name. They're not "buzzwords".

As for your denial that Iran couldn;t possibly have the Sunburn or equivalent, thats utter rubbish. China has taken delivery (and actually helped develop) of a variant of the Sunburn, 3M-80MBE, which has a number of improvements, notably the range is increased beyond 200km.

Now, considering that Hezbollah used a Chinese made C-802 last year against Israel, supposedly supplied via Iran and also taking into account the Iranian development of their own variant of a missile supposedly based upon the Sunburn (a test was carried out in August 2006), it seems likely that they have a considerably more advanced anti-ship missile capability than you or Google Earth give them credit for.

They also, reportedly, have Silkworm and Sunburn batteries stationed around the Straights of Hormuz. Maybe you could turn your Google eyes that way and have another look?

Originally posted by planeman
Please provide a link to this report. Right now, as a bit of an Iran military watcher of the internet variety, I'd say Iran having SS-N-22 is about as likely as England winning the World Cup.

Ah good, it's about time we won it again....

EDIT: To add, Russia has the SS-N-23, specifically designed for the export market, which is an upgrade to the Sunburn and also can be Air, Sea or Sub launched. I would expect, seeing as it went on sale at the turn of the century, that several countries will now have these also. I will of course check this...

[edit on 4/5/07 by stumason]