It doesn't make sense because you don't have all of the information!

This is not a rant against conspiracies - just a rant against a few certain types of people. A lot of times when I'm reading, listening to, or watching a debate on conspiracy theories, I hear people saying things like "It doesn't make sense to me why that would happen/they would do that/that would be there, etc. Does it make sense to you?" No. Want to know why? It's because we do not have all of the information on the majority of things that we discuss. Even one new fact can completely change what we know about something, so why should we be listening to some random, unqualified person ranting about the evolution of the damned universe? People think that just because they have access to wikipedia these days, they're bonafide experts on anything they read about. I suppose I'm just sick of seeing people get so heated up and self-righteous about things that take decades to learn properly. Space time? Please - you're 17! Where's your degree?

Maybe I'm just a little too aristotelian for my own good. Sorry if this was offensive to any of you out there. My intent was only to express my frustration.

[edit on 30-4-2007 by Herman]

Hey Herman ! No offense taken. Well, it didn't offend me, anyway.

I think most would understand what you're driving at. I feel the same way sometimes and I'm not 'aris' --- er, 'aristotal' ... (mmmm will cut and paste, Docks decides):

aristotelian

--- at all ! One day I may even learn what that means.

For example, a night or so ago, I happened upon a fascinating article online, regarding Ultra Violet rays; the 'reflecting' qualities of the Ozone Layer; OTHER rays (maybe electromagnetic -- whooo can say?) .... and their relation to UFOs/extraterrestrial aliens and the paranormal ===== with the emphasis being on Jinns, which, according to Islam and the author of said article, are described as being composed of 'fire'. If I remember correctly, angels are described as beings of 'light'.

Well, it was a fascinating article: the author wasn't demanding agreement and had certainly put some work into it. He knew a heck of a lot more about various 'rays' and the Koran than I do and so -- what he suggested seemed plausible. So much so, that I considered including a link to it within a future post re: ufos/aliens. Personally, I suspect that genuine accounts of ufos/aliens bear various things in common with many genuine accounts of the paranormal. At the same time, people far more learned than I can quite often be found online discussing highly advanced craft produced on earth by 3D humans that could well be responsible for many of the claimed 'ufo sightings'.

I'm not prepared to toss the baby out with the bathwater re: the validity of ufos/aliens, but it's certainly possible that the ufos/aliens witnessed by some people are not the SAME 'ufos/aliens' witnessed by others. In short, we may have two entirely different beasts being witnessed here: one originating on this planet and others originating elsewhere (whether off-planet or paranormal, who can say at this juncture?).

But then, today, by chance, I came across a post containing a photo of a relatively recent crop-circle which some poor ATS member had contributed as being a design of a bee, with accompanying text speculating that perhaps this crop-circle bee had been created by non-humans to warn us of the impending bee-crisis.

That poor poster was largely shot down in flames by those who dismissed the photo absolutely, claiming it bore no resemblance to a bee.

One of those posters drew attention to links within one of his own posts, in which super-advanced craft were under discussion. When I followed the link, I discovered an extremely erudite discussion of ultra advanced technology was under way, including illustrations/photos of these craft. No doubt at all that the craft shown would easily convince just about anyone that they were of extra-terrestrial origin: they were sleek 'flying saucers' ! Yet they'd been designed and possibly built, here on earth, if I grasped the post content correctly. Those posting in the thread in question seemed to have an advanced grasp of the technology.

So I slunk away, with my 'Jinns' article under my arm, believing (and I'm sure correctly) that it would be laughed or kicked out of that particular thread without ceremony.

I do still suspect there exists a paranormal element within many ufo/alien accounts, but I just don't have anywhere near the information at my disposal, nor sufficient grasp to articulate my suspicions. And I shrink from even discussing the issue with those highly accomplished scientist-types in the earth-based flying-saucer thread.

Nevertheless, I've experienced a number of paranormal occurrences and I know there are some tricky little individuals/entities lurking under the umbrella of 'paranormal' ... many of them preferring NOT to appear in the form of the stereotypical 'big-eyed grey aliens'. So even though I wouldn't enter the fray with the genius element threads, I might still dare to voice my speculations in a more easy-going thread.

I come to forums to discuss my own experiences and compare them with those of others. Occasionally, others may glean a bit of interesting & pertinent information from my experiences and I always hope to gain a deeper understanding of the subject from others and their experiences.

What this involves of course, is my making comments that don't contain all the information, all the answers. And others are guilty of the same thing. But as it's virtually impossible -- given the nature of the topics under discussion --- to categorically HAVE or offer 'all the answers/information'. These forum-discussions are patchy: always interesting & intriquing, but often lack the bits and pieces necessary to arrive at what people would term 'factual'.

From my perspective, it's better to at least be having discussions and sharing information, than not.

I think the same applies in general terms to virtually ANY 'conspiracy' theory. After all, if there WERE someone who could state, without fear of contradiction, that they possessed the 'truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth' with regard to 9-11 for example --- then life would never be the same again, would it? If the truth of that horrible day were laid bare on the table before the entire world, things would definitely change: COULD never be the same again. People would change. Their attitudes and beliefs would change. Even governments might change.

Same with ghosts. If someone were able to lay diagrams, temperature graphs, ultra violet photos, tangible evidence and the 'whole indisputable truth' about ghosts on the table --- nothing would ever be the same for any of us again. Religions would be compelled to alter their stance overnight, quite possibly, which in turn might have dramatic and unforseen effect on governments and upon societies, world-wide.

We may not necessarily LIKE what the 'whole truth' contained: it may overturn our most cherished beliefs and hopes. But that would be too bad, of course.

At the moment, NO-one, on the face of this planet, can prove 'the whole truth' about ghosts or about a whole raft of issues which are popular in conspiracy theory-based forums. But we do the best we can to add to and hopefully further, the knowledge bridge.

It's the same in 'real' life: we're mostly aware that the 'whole truth' is rarely revealed in courts, or in marriages or even between parent and child.

In forums exist those with greater or lesser information to impart. But we all had to learn to walk before we could manage the 1,000 metre sprint. Sometimes the learning takes place while people are posting their possibly ill-thought theories --- because quite often, along come those with greater information at their disposal and they post that. Then everyone learns some more and moves up a notch. And so on. It's great. I've learned heaps from forums and am always grateful to those who practiced patience and took the time to post (for the benefit of others) information and detail which they (the poster) already knew. It's very generous of those people. Gradually, we all keep climbing steadily upwards. And that's where we want to go. Otherwise, most of us wouldn't be here. And while we're climbing and learning and sharing and consolidating --- we're helping to keep the bastards honest

Originally posted by Dock6
Hey Herman ! No offense taken. Well, it didn't offend me, anyway.

I think most would understand what you're driving at. I feel the same way sometimes and I'm not 'aris' --- er, 'aristotal' ... (mmmm will cut and paste, Docks decides):

aristotelian

--- at all ! One day I may even learn what that means.

Aristotle believed that the true measure of a man's wisdom is knowledge of his own ignorance. It always bothered him that people walked around with these grand assumptions about the world, thinking that they know everything when they really know very little. I just threw the "lian" at the end to mean "Like Aristotle," but I think it works...

But hey, great post! I agree with a lot of what you said, and I'm glad you were there to remind of something so easily skimmed over. I do see what you're saying, and yes, everyone has to start somewhere. I have no problem with discussion boards discussing what they discuss, but it's when people present their opinion in an "I know everything about this" type of way that frustrates me. Unfortunately, when I see most people debating, it's not a polite exchange of ideas, it's a battle over who is right and who was wrong. Here's a thought - none of them are right! And even if somebody is right, it might not be because they had all of the information and came to the conclusion, it might just be that they got lucky and picked the right "side." I mean a conspiracy theorist can come to a conclusion that, let's just say, Bush caused 9/11 on purpose, with very little information. (Rosie anyone?) Now, let's just say in 10 years we realise "Wow, she was right!" Yes, she was right, but was it because she came to the most logical and sound conclusion? No - she just got lucky.

I am all for open and civil exchanges of ideas. It just irritates me when people present those ideas as the "end all" of the discussion, especially when discussion things WAY out of their league. The internet generation...what will we do?

EDIT: On second thought, I may very well have the wrong philosopher. I'll go look it up...

EDIT: Yep, it was Socrates! Shows how much I know.

[edit on 1-5-2007 by Herman]