Cho got off 170 shots in 9 minutes?? Wow!

Originally posted by Bootyac
I was under the impression that the shootings took place in a dormitory,not classrooms.

This is a big difference between unloading clips into a classroom of say 30+ people or a dorm room with only Im guessing 4 people max in each room?

And as far as the Video Game theory,I read where he played 'Counter Strike',so does this mean he used an aimbot and wallhacks as well?

[edit on 26-4-2007 by Bootyac]

The first two shootings WERE in a dorm room. The 30+ were in Norris Hall which was the Engineering building with classrooms.

sorry, no video games

After police searched Cho's dorm room, however, it seems he didn't own any video games at all. No murder simulators or gun training programs, not even a copy of Tetris. If video games didn't teach him these skills, where did they come from?! Oh noes!

read it here and google it, more places have the same story

mmm I wouldnt put too much in eyewitness accounts regarding guns, I mean they are both black similar shaped and hey *I'm ducking for cover fearing for my life*, but let me take a look at the gun caliber for a sec.

It could have been that Cho used one of the guns as a backup, relied on one gun mainly. Backup if a gun jammed, or someone rushed him while reloading. Also a 22 cal mag is tiny compared to a double stacked mag of a 9mm, you can feel it easily. But definitely the time factor is IMPRESSIVE. See numbers above, numbers dont lie, if the numbers are logically accurate, then thats the resulting scenario of shots fired vs. time.

Like I said earlier, pretty robotic, accurate and deadly.

EDIT: the times also do not account for transition to other classrooms by Cho and the time it takes for that to happen...

[edit on 26-4-2007 by greatlakes]

I got the story about games from here

Washington Post Staff Writer David Cho reports that several Korean youths who knew Cho Seung Hui from his high school days said he was a fan of violent video games, particularly Counterstrike, a hugely popular online game published by Microsoft, in which players join terrorism or counterterrorism groups and try to shoot each other using all types of guns.

Source

first, can i say i don't want to hijack the thread but how do i fix my avatar...just a fast how to please? i read the faq but it's not right so something changed.....

back to topic.

i am not an expert marksman or crack shot or anything like that....i own a few hand guns. couple semi auto's, wheel gun, etc.

now, i am imagining using 2 guns for something like this...if i couldn't get an assault weapon that i could rapid fire, i would definately get 2 of th same make/model/caliber gn...this is a trmendous advantage when it comes to reloading..

i mean we have to assume that the clips for both guns were already loaded..so, no matter if he has them in a pack or a vest or around his waist, they have to be seperated...also, they don't even hold the same amount of rounds do they? this would through it way off. if you had two guns that both held ten, you could go left-right-left-right till the last one is empty, dump clips and reload them both at the same time..more time efficient. was he halding one that held 14 and one that held 10? something like that? well, that would cut down on efficiency..one would run out a few sconds before the other so you would have seconds there where you are not shooting.

now, if you have two guns and you are opening up, you have 1 in each hand and you are firing them one at a time(most likely) or firing them both at a time like in the movies, but this will cut way down on accuracy...so, you have a gun in each hand and one or both go empty...you can not dump the clip and reload the clip with one hand while still shooting the other gun.....can't do it
that means fashioning the clips against your body in a way that the bullets stick out from your body..you'd have to dump the clip then ram the but of the gun into the new clip...do you look down when you do this? if so, you can't shoot with the other hand if you are not looking? so you keep looking forward and shooting? if so, you're gonna line the butt of the gun up with the clip every time?
lots of it don't add up but i still don't buy a 2nd shooter theory....

Originally posted by greatlakes
mmm I wouldnt put too much in eyewitness accounts regarding guns, I mean they are both black similar shaped and hey *I'm ducking for cover fearing for my life*, but let me take a look at the gun caliber for a sec.

Absolutely correct, but again, the fact of the matter is that the eyewitness saw him firing one gun, not two.

Peace

Originally posted by greatlakes
EDIT: the times also do not account for transition to other classrooms by Cho and the time it takes for that to happen...

And also shooting into doors that are barracaded and trying to get into those rooms.

Peace

Originally posted by Dr Love
Absolutely correct, but again, the fact of the matter is that the eyewitness saw him firing one gun, not two.

Peace

You got a link to the interview, I haven't seen it yet.
If the witness saw him firing one gun, the other was most likely like I said, a backup gun in case of jams etc. As a gun owner, I would NOT rely on the 22cal as a main gun of choice if my alternate was a 9mm. the 9mm would be my main defensive gun, and the 22 would be a backup. Not to mention the 22cal has only 10 rnds capacity, the 9mm has 15 rnds magazines.

Originally posted by Dr Love

Absolutely correct, but again, the fact of the matter is that the eyewitness saw him firing one gun, not two.

Peace

Which would tie in exactly with what he said about using one as primary and having a backup.

As for shooting into doors to get them open, how long do you think that would take? The numbers that were figured early were an AVERAGE. Some classrooms would have taken longer, some shorter. If he walked into a classroom that had 150 people in it, he's going to take a longer time shooting it up, as compared to a room that has 25-30 in it.

Originally posted by greatlakes
You got a link to the interview, I haven't seen it yet.

Here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Peace

Thanks dr Love, taking a look now.

Heres a pic of the 2 guns:


GLOCK 19


WALTHER P22

and heres some vids (not very good kinda pointless but anyway...)

GLOCK 19, 9mm


WALTHER P22





[edit on 26-4-2007 by greatlakes]

2 more things that really puzzle me and this is just me mulling it oer in my own head.

why did he bother to try and file the numbers off the guns? i mean i could see doing this if you were trying to actually get away but he sent info to the news...i don't get why he would do this.
the other thing is th ereports are saying he killed himself by pointing the gun to the back of his head...this too seems odd to me. most people that perform suicide by gun, take it gun to temple, gun under chin, or gun in mouth...for the record, most females cut and they do it in the tub but whatever.
so, why put the gun to the back of the head? that seems awkward...

just things i have been thinking about

I haven't read that he shot himself in the back of the head yet. That's interesting, and completely normal of course.........NOT.

Peace

Originally posted by apc
Not terribly great shooting as his kill ratio was pretty low. But he had to have some deep pockets or a pack or something to hold all those clips.

Well, he shot most of his victims more than once, even going back and shooting them some more to make sure they were dead (according to the investigators, he also had a couple of head shots though. Still, considering how many rounds he fired in nine minutes while calmly walking about and changing mags (while aiming and hitting bodies and trying to get by obstacles) it's impressive. Also, I believe he had a backpack with him, more than enough space to hold multiple gun mags.

[edit on 26-4-2007 by WestPoint23]

I would like to know how difficult it would be to retrieve magazines from a backpack while doing all this?

As long as people agree that the evidence could have been planted to account for all the shots fired and all the dead bodies, then I don't have a problem.

Peace

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by apc
Not terribly great shooting as his kill ratio was pretty low. But he had to have some deep pockets or a pack or something to hold all those clips.

Well, he shot most of his victims more than once, even going back and shooting them some more to make sure they were dead (according to the investigators, he also had a couple of head shots though. Still, considering how many rounds he fired in nine minutes while calmly walking about and changing mags (while aiming and hitting bodies) it's impressive. Also, I believe he had a backpack with him, more than enough space to hold multiple gun mags.

Agree with Westpoint, IMPRESSIVE. Are you kidding me APC, his kill ratio was HIGH. One shooter, 2 pistols, not even a rifle, shotgun or higher power weapon, just semiauto 9mm and 22cal pistols. 170 rnds fired, 32 dead, 24 wounded. Sounds lethal to me. Hit total 56 people, killed 32, thats 57% kill ratio. Per bullet, 19% kill / bullet. That means if shooting a bullseye, 1 outa every 5 rounds hits the 10x circle.

The UT sniper, C whitman, fired xx shots (need number here anyone?), 14 dead wounds 29 within 90 minutes of first shot.

If Cho had any weapons training at all you would have had a much higher body count than there was. I have heard the 170 rounds in 9 minutes bit. I would be curious as to how the time was determined. I would also like to know how many of the rounds were 9mm and how many were .22. I had to qualify with a .38 revolver when I was in the Navy and one of the tests was to shoot 10 rounds in 30 seconds. This was to be 2 groups of 5 in a single action revolver with a reload in between. No speedloaders were used. It was suprising how much of the 30 seconds you had left with a little practice. I can easily fire 34 aimed shots with my Beretta in 20 seconds using 2 17 round mags. If Cho had any training at all you would be looking at 50-60 dead instead of 32.

I have taken some college classes where there are 70+ students in a room. These are usually lecture classes. We usually had those on a Monday.

i have read on several sites that he fired his kill shot to himself to the back of the head...this is a very odd pattern.

as to having a backpack, i would think that would make it harder...i mean, if he was using the saem type of gun in both hand, and the bag was high enough, he could essentially just reach back, grab a mag and stuff it. he was using 2 different guns though so again, he has to have a way to seperate the mags for the walther and the mags for the glock.

there are several things to this that don't add up to me...i know a lot of people here have had formal training and all that and are probably excellant shots. i consider myself an ok shot..
that said, you go to the range a newb(meaning you have not been firing but for more than a month or two) and you hang a target 15 feet away and stand there and try to hit center chest, it's not as easy as it would look.

now we have cho carrying to different make of guns, 2 different caliber of guns, walking and shooting at the same time, as the 'targets' are scrambling.....seems like he had a pretty high hit/miss ratio to me.
seems to me maybe this dude knew how to shoot....just a feeling. don't really know where i am getting at but he did not learn all this from video games and paintballs.

we either have a genuine conspiracy on our hands OR, this is proof that if you're out of your head enough and you have enough full clips, you can do some serious damage in a short amount of time....

either way, i want to know why he filed the numbers off and why he shot himself in teh back of the head and not th echin/mouth/temple like 99.9% of other gun suicides.

Originally posted by JIMC5499
If Cho had any weapons training at all you would have had a much higher body count than there was. I have heard the 170 rounds in 9 minutes bit. I would be curious as to how the time was determined. I would also like to know how many of the rounds were 9mm and how many were .22. I had to qualify with a .38 revolver when I was in the Navy and one of the tests was to shoot 10 rounds in 30 seconds. This was to be 2 groups of 5 in a single action revolver with a reload in between. No speedloaders were used. It was suprising how much of the 30 seconds you had left with a little practice. I can easily fire 34 aimed shots with my Beretta in 20 seconds using 2 17 round mags. If Cho had any training at all you would be looking at 50-60 dead instead of 32.

The students aren't lining up for Cho to shoot em though remember, like with a paper target. They are most likely diving for cover, under desks, the situation is chaotic, screams yelling etc. At the range, I can squeeze off rnds fast too, but the faster you fire, the less accurate you become. Also you'd be firing at one paper target not acquiring new targets and re-aiming.

So for one magazine (15 rnds) for Cho, I have him at 30 secs (15rnds * 1s)+((15rnds/3)*3s) to fire all his 15 rounds all the while taking aim at multiple targets.

So while you may take 20s to fire off 2 mags with your beretta at a paper target, I peg Cho at 30s/mag for multiple targets in a needless to say chaotic environment.

Try putting the backpack on backwards so that it is on your chest.

From what I understand Cho did shoot himself in the temple.