SPECIAL: The Truth About America's Domestic Disarmament Policy

I have a couple of questions and points for those who support wide spread gun owner ship in case a government that has gone bad.

What will you do if the US military actually learns how to fight a counter insurgency war ?
Now would be a good time to create a private Air Forces just in case there needed.
How will you resupply your private army's ?
It is reasonable to assume that the US government would control the arms factory in the event that an insurgency broke out.
So shouldn't people be making weapons and ammunition in there backyard rather then relying on there local gun store ?

[edit on 26-4-2007 by xpert11]

[edit on 26-4-2007 by xpert11]

That's a rather touchy subject, especially when you realize that an Alabama militia was recently busted for having home-built military weapons.

We might get more mileage out of this in the "Demise of American Miltias" thread, but for the moment...as a matter of gun control...let's kick this around. I'd like to hear what others have to say before I chip in with my two cents.

Hi I live in South Africa and I've seen public disarmament.

"To fight the high levels of crime"

The farming "commando groups" (formed by the South African defence force) have been disbanded and all semi-automatic weapons given to the farmers by the State were taken back. The same weapons used to protect the farmers from "Farm attacks" - take into account the police resides in town and the farms could be as much as 100Km from town = 1 hour plus for responce if you're real lucky, normally you wait anything from hours to a couple of days - which are allways brutal (they torture and rape before making of with any cash the farmer may have on hand).

How many farmers go and rob the fuel station for some cash?

Now for some interesting facts:

The violent crimes rate in SA have increased the last 10 years, rape and indecent assault have increased ("Don't worry, the chance of her having a fire-arm is slim"), "Gang violence" in the large towns have increased, Drug trafficking is on a rampage - only the criminals have arms and the police force is under mannedand over worked. We have "Taxi wars", over routes, on a weekly basis. (The 'State reports" claim the crime rate decreased by a couple of percentage points but taking a look at the local level, talking to the police, reading the paper shows a increase in crime. As one police officer told me this week - the people don't even bother to report burglaries, muggings and assault anymore.)

They brainwashed the population into "voluntary" handing in all thier fire-arms but the new laws -instituted by our 60% majority rule, implying they may change the constitution - government limits the amount af fire-arms you may own , obtaining a license takes ages ( most people don't even try to go through the proscess and anything more than a hand weapon requires the joining of a hunters association (registered) - having to regulary meet a certain marksmanship score on the shooting range or having your license revoked.

The new laws state that you may not inherrit a fire-arm and they have gone as far as stating that any weapon (airgun) exceding 1900 feet velocity needs to be licensed.

I can't remember ever reading or hearing about a robber taking a store with a airgun.

OK, so what you ask?

Well take it from me, you feel quite helpless living in your own country and not having the option to defend yourself with a fire-arm when they could come into your house at any time with their weapons to kill, rape and mame.

We (whites) are outnumberd 8 to 1 and the government is black so our options were quite limited - you have a chance to fight for your right to bare arms!

[edit on 27-4-2007 by dragonben]

[edit on 27-4-2007 by dragonben]

As governments acquire more political power, they tend to want the populations the "administer" to be less capable of resistence in ever ysesne ofthe word. It's worth noting a lot of that bureaucratic attitude comes with a healthy dose of good intentions. Most of the people who assail any deeply held tradition wil do so with nothing but good intentions in their hearts. It's that small privilidged group of political and social elites that we end up having to deal with that makes many of us so...nervous. Different people in different countries have lost certain of their privilidges for a wide variety of reasons that we in America can't relate to. No matter how you slice it, lost is lost.

Justin Oldman said:

It's worth noting a lot of that bureaucratic attitude comes with a healthy dose of good intentions. Most of the people who assail any deeply held tradition wil do so with nothing but good intentions in their hearts.

Good intentions or not, the Patriot has assailed many of the measures that defended due process and protected individuals from the superior power of the state. While I appreciate the argument that gun control is another step down on the slippery slope of restricted personal liberty, and one that is important to oppose, because of it's association with militarily imposed tyranny - other constitutional amendments must be restored. When you consider that murder is killing without a license, the impact of who has access to how much legal and authoritative power is far more relevant. In the event of an violent insurrection, the people would be decisively outmatched, but with proper laws, and constitutional amendments - the recourse to democracy is always available.
Here in Canuckistan, the gun laws instituted by the liberal party were so bogged down in red tape that it was impossible to properly license a new firearm and impossible to track any illegal or unreported guns. It essentially became a cash cow/make work program for friends and relatives needing employment in federal government; basking in poorly lit, closed air buildings playing red tape phone tag. It ate up billions of tax dollars and comparatively few guns.
In America where there are even more guns, it must be quite a undertaking to disarm everyone, especially with the greater bias towards gun ownership there. I suppose with the Patriot Act incentives to tattle on a neighbor or otherwise face imprisonment, might facilitate the disarmament. Similar laws in Communist nations ensured division and mistrust among the people and probably did more damage to the morale of the nation, than physical disarmament.

What you and I might think of as mondern gun control has been under way for the better part of forty years. It's not unreasonable to think that it could take another forty years to achieve something that looks a lot like disarmament. I think we're going to see a lot of that policy in effect by 2020. It's important to remember that a person born today will not think twice about increasing Federal authority. "What are you talking about? Its always been that way."

When I think about a citizen uprising here, it occurs to me that some of the police and national guard would not side with the govt, but with the people-but what about Blackwater and their ilk? Guns for hire.

All this talk about gun control makes me want to get a couple just to be on the safe side. I never was interested in owning a gun but had no issue with those who did and were responsible.

Originally posted by Pilot
When I think about a citizen uprising here, it occurs to me that some of the police and national guard would not side with the govt, but with the people-but what about Blackwater and their ilk? Guns for hire.

Private security contractors are currently employed by national governments and corporations. In the future, its possible that they may be employed by local governments for certain low-intensity chores.

It is likely that there would be some desertions from military, national guard, and police units. I'm not saying anything radical or out of line when I suggest that national guard and police units would be the preferred targets for any civilian insurgency.

Originally posted by Pilot
All this talk about gun control makes me want to get a couple just to be on the safe side. I never was interested in owning a gun but had no issue with those who did and were responsible.

A lot of people are having this conversation right now. People who would never have a 'reason' to own guns are now finding that it may be wise to get them while its still possible. Why? Because they could be perfectly happy to live in a society where they "could" buy a gun without actually doing it...unless...some rather severe situation made it necessary. Now that they are seeing this option fade away, they're re-thinking their position.

Even if you ultimately choose to NOT own a gun, this is a discussion that you and your need to have. Too many of us have put it off or ignored it altogether. Some day, you might feel obligated to say, " I chose wrong. I had my chance to do this before the laws changed, and I decided not to. Now, I regret that decision." Or you might say something like, "I bought it and put it away. Never thought I would need it. Now, I feel pretty good about making that decision."

"Having" does not require us to "use." I have a first-aid suture kit, and I'm trained to use it. I hope that I never have to use it. Every kitchen utensil I own can take a life, and I hope it'll never come to that. If you end up giving your old unused gun to your grand kids, you will know that you did your job. when my father gave me the family gun, he said something quite profound. "This weapon has never been fired in anger. Make sure it stays that way."

I want to bring something to your attention. Just in case you still think your voice does NOT matter. I'm posting a link to the official Presidential web site of web site of Dennis Kucinich because his people are talking about THIS THREAD. Yes, that's right. "They" are paying attention to what YOU are saying.

Hold on...don't reach for that keyboard just yet. Stop and think about this for a second. You've done a good thing. You got the attention of the people who advise a powerful politician. That's what happens when you fight smart. Engage your bran, then type. Passion is good, but you've got to make sense in a very short amount of time.

This is just one way that you can tell truth to power. Use it wisely.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham

"Having" does not require us to "use." I have a first-aid suture kit, and I'm trained to use it. I hope that I never have to use it. Every kitchen utensil I own can take a life, and I hope it'll never come to that. If you end up giving your old unused gun to your grand kids, you will know that you did your job. when my father gave me the family gun, he said something quite profound. "This weapon has never been fired in anger. Make sure it stays that way."

How true! While I currently don't own a gun, I know how to use one if I ever need that option. My main reason for not getting a personal gun has to do with disability related issues.

I learned as a boy how to safely handle and fire a gun. I think that it good to know how to use weapons safely in case they are ever needed.

Tim

There is a false assumption being promulgated by the advocates of big government that you've got to actually own a gun to be a 'serious' second amendment supporter. that's just not true. A disabled person who is not physically able to use a gun has just as much at stake as anyone else when it comes to the matter of civilian arms.

So long as we have the option, we don't have have to be in posession of firearms. Many do see it that way. If the government made no threatening moves, a lot more people would NOT own guns. they wouldn't see the need. In time, they might even be conned in to giving up that options...but...I don't think the people who want us disarmed are willing to wait that long.

As we approach Memorial Day, I'd like to bring THIS to your attention. This ATS discussion thread serves to warn us about government sponsored smears. Keep this in mind when the Federal ad experts target YOU.

Disgusting!

We should be ashmed to have a government that sees nothing wrong with using slander and smear tacits to discredit its Own Citizens. Do they really expect us to feel safer knowing that if we disagree with what they want, we're going to be sold to our neighbors as blood-crazed monsters?

Tim

[edit on 5/28/2007 by Ghost01]

As I write this, it's Memorial Day in the United States. For those who do not know, this is a day of remembrance that we set aside each year to honor our fellow citizens who died in military service. It's a tradition that goes back to 1868, and it used to be called "Decoration Day."

With this in mind, I'd like to take a moment to comment on Tim's concern. We get the government that we desreve. As citizens of a democratic republic, we have it in our power to turn the rascals out every time they disappoint us. When we fail to use our vote, we get nothing more than what we deserve.

As an independent writer, I labor under the assumption that I will not go to jail forwhat I say. I write things that do question the status quo, and I do it becuase I want to live in a better world. I use Fiction to show you what our future could be like, if we don't aspire to higher ideals and better citizenship NOW. When I come to ATS, I discuss these things with you in a frank and honest way that could one day earn me a slot in Federal prison for sedition or something like it.

I bring this to your attention because I can speak for you. I can only speak for myself. Nothing risked can also mean nothing gained. The people whom we remember today gave what you might call their "last measure of devotion," so that the rest of America could remain free. As each new year comes we should remember that the previous year was paid for in blood. In the same way that we get the government we deserve, we also have the freedom we deserve...as long as we are willing to pay for it.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
With this in mind, I'd like to take a moment to comment on Tim's concern. We get the government that we desreve. As citizens of a democratic republic, we have it in our power to turn the rascals out every time they disappoint us. When we fail to use our vote, we get nothing more than what we deserve.

Which is why we should feel Ashamed!

People sometimes gripe about the US government, and it's activities. One one hand we as American Citizens complain about the "Moster" our government becomes. Yet, as we gripe, we forget that We the People had a hand in Creating this mess!

Even as they disappoint us, we Americans rarely step up and push for major changes.

In some ways, we act like the little child who gets the dog all wound up with the tennis ball, and then watches when mom and dad put the dog outside for wrecking the living room, Knowing all the while, If we hadn't tried to play fetch in the house, the living room wouldn't be a mess.

We creat our own political messes!

Tim

that's why I try to let you know when other ATS discussion threads come along that relate to this subject. There's a new threat emerging from California that you may want to take a look at. Seems that some bright person has decided that YOU and your privacy don't matter.

Hi Justin,

I live in Oregon and out here firearms rarely get a second look (outside of the cities like Portland).

One possible way to start re-educating the anti-gunners is to let them see guns, not being used for crime, all the time. I am referring to one of our basic rights that is still "allowed" (how can a right be allowed?) called "Open Carry."

In many states, while a person requires a permit to carry a concealed weapon, it is perfectly legal to carry a loaded firearm. Yes that is correct. For state by state laws one can refer to OpenCarry.org

To reiterate, it is perfectly legal to go about one's business with a loaded handgun strapped to one's waist, as long as it is clearly visible, in most states.

My mother in law from Chicago was out visiting a few weeks ago and we were out walking and two gentlemen came walking by with pistols worn outside the waistband in holsters. She freaked out!!! She is thinking these fellows are going to shoot her etc. I had to explain to her that if they were criminals they would not be wearing their guns in plane sight, they would be hiding them. That these were in fact gentlemen whom, if she were to encounter trouble on the trail in the form of a bear or a not-nice human, would take it upon themselves to protect her.

It is ironic as well that she freaked out over the sight of guns when I have my LICENSED concealed carry piece tucked away where it always is and she hasn't figured it out in many years. How many concealed handguns have all the anti-gunners been standing next to at the movie theater for years and never knew?

Point being though there is a huge misperception about firearms in this country and many times people who are not familiar with them think that somehow this inanimate object will jump out of its holster and start gunning folks down.

I purpose that where legal, everyone start Open Carrying. You will probably get hassled by the cops but know your local laws and be polite with them.

Open Carry is a RIGHT, it is not a priveledge.

If enough folks start doing it maybe we can head this gun control thing off.

There are arguments for and against Open Carry in regards to safety. I'm not going to get into them and folks can lok into that themselves and make their own choice.

Think about it. 4 patrons standing in line in a convenience store all Open Carrying. A criminal walks in with a plan to commit a crime. If he is smart enough to notice the guns and do the math he'll walk out, if not then we cannot be responsiblee for that fellows actions and the outcomes he visits upon himself.

I was in line at a gorocery store, Open Carrying, with wife 4 year old daughter and 6 month old son. Woman behind us in line freaks over the gun, asking why I have it etc. I explained that it was a right, which she didn't seem to get or care about, so I stole a line I had read someone else used, "Ma'am, I want you to imagine both of our families walking out into the parking lot and walking past the pedophile hiding in his van looking for a victim. When he looks at your daughter walking along with her unarmed mom and he looks at my daughter walking along next to her daddy who is carrying a gun, which kid do you think he would pick...? What if we all had guns, which kid would he pick?" Lightbulbs...

Bottom line... it is our right as American citizens to defend ourselves... from criminals or a corrupt government, just as the founding fathers intended.

We need to watch the Supreme Court very carefully over the next few years. They are currently about to rule on the D.C. gun ban. If they rule in favor of D.C., you can expect massive roll backs in civil liberties during Hillary's time in office. Bear in mind that when she takes office, she'll make just enough SC appointments to turn the court just leftish enough to get her way on gun control.

A Boston newspaper reports that the local police department is going to enter certain neighborhood to ask homeowners for their permission to search for unregistered guns...without...a warrant. by asking nice, the local PD is hoping to score points withh the community.

An ATS member has already started a discussion on this Boston policy.

I bring this to your attention so that you'll join that discussion. I also wanted to point out that I warned about "soft searches" earlier in this thread. They serve us, or we serve them. If they can get us to disarm politely...

[edit on 10-2-2008 by Justin Oldham]