Proof That God Does Not Exist ! (updated)

Originally posted by Enlightened
Lilblam,


I thought we are trying to be nice here. Now, you don't want me to intentionally make you feel stupid do you?? I have barely scrathched the surface here as far as my posts go. I guess I may have to stretch a bit and step into the the fire zone......

I think you have a thing and an inner desire to try to make people feel stupid. You see, my intent is to gain knowledge and share it with those who ask. Your intent is to try to stupify people. The problem is, stupidity is relative.

You could never make me feel stupid. God himself cannot make me feel stupid: This feeling would be subjective and relative. I know what I know, you know what you know. To feel stupid is to submit to subjectivity, and such I am trying to avoid as much as possible.

Therefore, if you would like to try to make me feel stupid, you can go ahead and try. You can even pretend you have succeeded already, and save yourself the energy!

Another point: Your ego-based bragging about your "intelligence" only proves to show that words are cheap. If you have 180 IQ, you think this measures your intelligence. Apparently, if it does measure your intelligence, you're only using about 100 of that IQ.

But does IQ measure open mindedness and willingness to learn? No.

A close-minded genius is like a closed book. No matter how fat the book is, if it's closed, it's closed. Anyone can run around and scream he is a genius. Like I said, not only is stupidity relative, but words are cheap. Back up what you say please, otherwise it serves no purpose but as clutter.

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by lilblam]

I know, I am sorry... I am not tryng to insult you even though I really can't because in your world Lilblam everything is relative and subjective... That's OK, maybe someday you will WAKE UP.... Look, your probably right and I am not very smart and maybe I only use about 100 of my IQ and that's OK too. I am me and that's all I'll ever be. We live in a world that has to have rules and regulations even if you would rather live in a world without, morals, ethics, rules, laws, whatever... I guess you can but your own island somewhere and start your own society. Maybe you will call it Blamville or something like that, who knows, who cares?? I am not here to argue with you but rather to give you things to chew on. The problem is you seem to be one of those guys who is so arrogant that all you can see is what you think to be knowledge and intelligence defined by you. You see, you want people to stretch and open their minds and that is good. You have also brought up some good and well thought out points too. But in the end you come full circle back to the same place. You are just like everyone else here arguing their cases except it appears that you are too blind to see it. Lilblam, in the grand scheme of things where do you fit in?? Good question. Maybe you should spend some time figuring out what your purpose here on this ball of rocks is?? Before you know it, your time here will pass just like a vapor in the wind, and where will the memory of Lilblam be?? What will you have done to impact peoples lives in a positive way? Good question.. You know, what is the probability that 2 Billion Christians are just pissing in the wind in what they believe?? Probably not very likely. We can't all be mindless slaves brought into this great lie about GOD... Not to mention the 1.2 Billion Muslims who have a similar root spiritually to Christians. Let's see, that makes well about half the current worlds population. I guess we are all just close minded fools following the lies of these great men, who were BTW greater than you and I so far in life. I measure life in terms of what kinds of positive things I can do/say to help others in their life. Answer me that Bam? What is the probability that you have it figured out more so than 3 Billion plus other people?? I'll tell you, there's not a snowball's chance in H@#l that you are more right than us collectively. I know though this is not about right and wrong after all that is determined by the individual... Please!!!! If you can't come up with anything better than the boring philosophy of these modern day Idiots that preach Subjectivism and Relativism then let's not waste time. I haven't met a truly intelligent philosopher yet..........

If more people believe a lie, it doesn't make the lie true. Chew on that please

You mean you haven't met someone who only tells you what you want to hear? Belief is irrelavant, only truth matters. If 3 billion people choose to believe illusions and lies, it's their choice. Once again, bigger numbers say absolutely NOTHING about validity.

How many Germans supported Hitler and his cause? Did that make his cause anything other than what it was, objectively speaking?

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by lilblam]

I want you to imagine infinity, and then describe to the board what it is that you see. Just do it.

The rock is excluded by alive, because it is not alive. Our definition of alive DOES NOT include a rock, just like you said. Therefore a rock is not alive.

Expanding the definition of alive is not an option. A rock does not have any type of biological function associated with itself. It does not need to breath. Nor does it need to eat.


Just so everyone in the reading this thread understands what you are doing, I will explain it. You are making claims that are untrue. When people call you out on them, you say that the definition of words in the claim need to be modified to suit your views and opinions. That is nonsense. If you don't beleive in God that is your choice. You just have no more evidence of that than someone who does believe in God has evidence to support their own claims.

If you were to say that you logically came to an OPINION that God does not exist, that is one thing. To claim to have proof is completely different. It is a lie not only to me and everyone else on this message board, but to yourself.

I know I know let's just looked at everything objectively. That's makes us closer to seeking the truth doesn't it?? You talk a good game but you still have not convinced me to look further into your theories. Which BTW are just that. Some of the greatest minds of all time have been bible believing Christians you know. The answer to it all Triune. The human is composed of three distinctive parts if you will. Body, Soul, and Spirit. I have figured out your case. You see Lilblam, you are only operating in the first two: Body and Soul. That part that is Spirit is the part of the human entitiy that can commune if you will with God. How do I know?? By what you say or believe if you will. It is obvious that your Spirit man is not activated, at least to GOD it's not. I have no doubt that your Spirit lives because all 3 parts are active while living but in your case your Spirit man has not been activated, turned on, whatever, to God. You see it really makes no sense for me to argue with you because true spiritual concepts you just can't grasp. They are beyond your capability to see. Not because you are stupid but because no matter how hard you try to you won't ever see it. It's like a lightswitch that has not turned on yet and it may never. Why you may ask? Ah, now we get to the meat... Because, God chooses to turn on those switches that He wants to turn on. He may never flip your switch which means that you can never understand what you reason to be primitive lies and concepts to make us all feel better about life. I know, it may seem simple but really it's not. You see Blam even if I was the best at reasoning in the world and I used complete logic with empirical proof, you would still not believe. Why, because your switch is still turned off. You just can't see it. God chooses who He chooses for His own agendas. We can't control that. So, maybe He will flip your switch and maybe He won't?? Only He knows that.. Yes, and in the end you will know how it all is to be. Just think. 100 years from now you will know if the Christian God was real or not. Cause and Effect or Sowing and Reaping. It will come back around, it always does. It is a LAW that you Bam can never escape. You will reap what you sow. If you sow unbelief then your harvest will be a life apart from God for the rest of your eternity.



Your friend,
Jason

Originally posted by Seapeople
I want you to imagine infinity, and then describe to the board what it is that you see. Just do it.

Only if I was infinite. Let's not "just do", as leaping without thinking is often hazardous. One does not need to be aware of all aspects of infinity to understand what infinity is conceptually, and it is only that understanding that is necessary to further progress in knowledge that utilizes infinity as a factor. This can be easily examplified by the idea I presented that time cannot exist, because otherwise we could not exist, and this contardiction exists due to the eternal nature of the universe. Had I not understood eternity, I would not be able to make this conjecture.

The rock is excluded by alive, because it is not alive.

Correct, it does not fit the current definition of "alive". However, the rock has a consciousness and awareness, on its level.

Our definition of alive DOES NOT include a rock, just like you said. Therefore a rock is not alive.

Right, but a rock is aware of other rocks and so forth. Alive or not, it is more than your scientists know or are willing to admit even if evidence presents itself - scientific circles have "respect" and "credibility" to uphold, and therefore are reluctant to deviate from the commonly-accepted "norms" in fear of being outcasts or rejected by the community.

Expanding the definition of alive is not an option. A rock does not have any type of biological function associated with itself. It does not need to breath. Nor does it need to eat.

One does not need to breathe to be alive. One does not need to eat to be alive either, all that is required for any sort of existance is energy. If your energy intake and output method does not constitute "eating", then apparently earth humans shall label you "dead", although that is only based on their own definition of what is dead and what is alive.

Energy is all there is, and everything that exists is energy. We eat only to obtain energy. A rock also requires energy, even though the method of energy input and output of a rock is drastically different from that of a human. Higher level beings also require energy, but this doesn't mean they must eat and suck it from other beings in order to sustain their consciousness. Consciousness is eternal and timeless, and the energy is either balanced or not balanced. A service to self form of existance points the energy INWARD, and therefore out of balance.

Just so everyone in the reading this thread understands what you are doing, I will explain it. You are making claims that are untrue.

Back your statement up, otherwise it has no meaning or relavance.

When people call you out on them, you say that the definition of words in the claim need to be modified to suit your views and opinions.

False, I ask why? And they say "cuz I said so.". This abruptly terminates any credibility/meaning behind their claims. Without supporting your statements, they mean nothing. A 2 yr old can say anything she wants, but unless she provides sufficient data (be it logical or otherwise) to support her claims, they are only claims and matter as much as hot air on a hot summer day.

That is nonsense. If you don't beleive in God that is your choice. You just have no more evidence of that than someone who does believe in God has evidence to support their own claims.

Once the definition of God is established, it is rather easy to demonstrate the existance or lack thereof of same.

If you were to say that you logically came to an OPINION that God does not exist, that is one thing.

All are opinions until understood by others. If I say 2+2=11 that's still my opinion, until you ALSO understand it and then know it to be true, in its proper context of course. I reached the only possible conclusion through my understanding of OBJECTIVE reality and the way things really work. It has nothing to do with wishful thinking or belief, for it is OBJECTIVE. Once again, supply me with a definition of God, and you can then very easily see for yourself whether such exists or does not. There is no limit to what is possible, but there are certain things that are untrue in respect to objective reality.

To claim to have proof is completely different. It is a lie not only to me and everyone else on this message board, but to yourself.

Yes, proof doesn't exist, only knowledge. Either you know something, or you do not. If you do not know it, you also have an option of belief, but either way, it won't add any more knowledge. Truth exists regardless of belief, and it is upto the individual whether he chooses to see it or not. It is not that you CANNOT see it, it is that you CHOOSE to ignore it, because you hold your beliefs very tight, because they serve YOU, and you are a service to self being. We all are. Some are now making the choice to be service to others, although they cannot fully actualise this decision until the next density of existance, they can be candidates for same.

So why was Jesus "son of god"Jewish? Could someone answer me that, if he was. Atheist the right way to go or is it a matter of opinion?

Originally posted by whenisthend
So why was Jesus "son of god"Jewish? Could someone answer me that, if he was. Atheist the right way to go or is it a matter of opinion?

There is no right or wrong, just truth and not truth, creation and entropy, service to others and service to self, etc. Objective reality is what exists, subjective reality (beliefs, assumptions) is what you WANT reality to be (wishful thinking). It's a choice, and as every choice, has consequences. It is upto you to decide which you will choose, and which leads to knowledge and which leads to lack of same. Some people choose happiness, which is subjective, over knowledge. To them, ignorance is bliss. Others choose to seek truth without prejudice, no matter how "horrible" it may be.

Why was Jesus Jewish? Why not? Why is anyone Jewish?

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by lilblam]

Lilblam,


What if I said that there really is no such thing as choice?? What if your choices are simply illusions and that your so called relative choices are not an act of your own will at all but rather you are being manipulated by a being who enjoys being a puppet master of sorts. How do you know that this is not the case?? If you do, then prove it to me...


Your friend,
Jason

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by Enlightened]

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by Enlightened]

Originally posted by Enlightened
Lilblam,


What if I said that there really is no such thing as choice?? What if your choices are simply illusions and that your so called relative choices are not an act of your own will at all but rather you are being manipulated by a being who enjoys being a puppet master of sorts. How do you know that this is not the case?? If you do, then prove it to me...


Your friend,
Jason

This is the case for most people. You can only make a choice when you're aware of the choice, otherwise it's a non-choice. This is why freedom is so boasted in US, to create this illusion and maintain it - best slaves are those who think they are free. We are an experiment! There is a puppet master who controls and rules over all of us, we're nothing but slaves/sheeple who gave up their will and their minds.

Choice exists, but most are not aware of it, because they CHOSE this level of awareness in the first place. Most people are reaction machines: They have many programs runnin in their minds that create a simulation of consciousness, when in reality they simply REACT to stimuli, without conscious choice on their part.

Example: Someone says "How are you?" and most people's response is "Fine, how are you?". This wasn't a conscious choice, it was a mere reaction based on programming. Entire conversations can be held without consciousness being present for the most part.


Once again, proof doesn't exist, only knowledge. What is proof to you is not proof to someone else, and vice versa. If you think that your choices are not really your own, and that you're nothing but a puppet, then what about your consciousness? Are you not self-aware, are you not conscious? I think, therefore I am. Your thoughts, your consciousness, this is definitely present, in some form. It might not be physically located INSIDE you, but it exists.

For example, if I take your idea under consideration, then perhaps your consciousness is actually the consciousness of the puppet master, and you are under the illusion that it is yours. Well what is the difference then, if you are AWARE of the consciousness anyway, and you are able to make a CHOICE based on that awareness?

If we're all just remote-controlled robots, then there is no free will, there is no choice, there are no punishments for our choices as we would have no choices. However, this is not the case. Not because I don't want it to be, but because I am consciously aware of my mind, of my existance, and of my own choices. It takes a lot of work to actually make a choice which is not based on a PROGRAM, but instead make a conscious choice based on the creative principle, instead of the entropic principle. It only takes a lot of work because we've been programmed since childhood, and it takes effort to remove those programs. Religions are just more programs that are designed to create the illusion of choice as they manipulate your emotions and wishful thinking nature to basically MAKE you choose. Once your emotions are trapped and have a hold over you, the elites then have a hold over you by controlling your emotions. Religion is a very service to self thing, it's all about reward for YOU from God, or punishment for YOU if you don't obey. It is part of a hierarchy that only exists in a service to self world.

So technically it is possible to create a race of beings with no choice of their own, and completely controlled by complex programs. We have many of those running in our minds. However, the more AWARENESS and KNOWLEDGE these beings receive, the more CONSCIOUS they become of themselves and their reality, the more they will be able to really CHOOSE instead of just REACTING, and the more free will they will have.

To be fully controlled drones means we would not have much conscious awareness, which is indeed missing from many people. Choice exists only because of the nature of the universe, and if you have a soul, you have a choice. If you do not have a soul, you have much less free will, although you always have potential for a soul and therefore STILL have a choice, although bleak. Intelligence never fully lacks a soul, because a soul is consciousness, and consciousness permeates all things.

How do I know what the nature of the universe is? Well, considering the fact that all that exists is consciousness, and that all possibilities that could ever possibly happen already did, do, and will, simultaneously, then you can see that anything and everything that ever happens is based on CHOICE of that consciousness, nothing is outside of "everything", which is consciousness.

This reality is designed for lessons, for lessons on different levels, and the only thing that truly exists is KNOWLEDGE. Once you possess more knowledge, your consciousness expands and you are aware of MUCH MORE than you were before. Your perception changes and accomodates your new awareness, you are able to SEE more of reality than you could before, just with knowledge.

The universe has no limits, it has no beginnings, no ends, no TIME. It has no boundaries, no rules, no control. There is illusion of control on the part of limited awareness, due to service to self orientation and the willingless to be controlled in return for something for the SELF. Otherwise, you can not be controlled, you cannot be judged, and you cannot ever be interfered with. Knowledge protects, Ignorance endangers. If you choose ignorance, or existance that is based on same, then you shall obviously not have the knowledge to protect yourself from certain influences that are out to control you and consume your energy, to utilize your life force for themselves, the same way you utilize the life force of others (your food for example) for YOUR self. The food chain, or the rabbit hole, runs much deeper than you think.

Space and Time are only illusions necessary to provide our lessons at this "moment". The only thing that exists, as you by now should realise, is thought. All else is an illusion for the purposes of lessons. This realisation is not so hard to arrive at, if you open your mind and think carefully.

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by lilblam]

Originally posted by Jakko
A little experiment.

What if you could create a computerprogram that has "objects" in it that think like humans.
Objects that are as complex as humans with an AI and thinking that's just as complex as humans.
Now you would also program the world around them, everything they see hear and feel would be part of your program. The interval at which a new "frame" is made for the entire world would be set to 0.1 second.

The "humans" in your program would live and die in this timeframe of a new "moment" every 0.1 second.
Not only would they not even notice their world is "advancing" pretty slowly, they would not even be able to ever find out about it without a reference to "an outside clock".
Because that reference would not exist, they would wonder how it all works, where they are coming from and what's happening.
The creator of this program (you) would be able to pause the program, without the objects in it ever noticing the world in which they live is paused. The creator of this program would be able to see and hear everything at all times, but He would not be part of his creation once.
He would see these "objects" trying to get their mind around concepts like infinity and time, and he would have a good laugh noticing the talk about the creator being everything in their world because the creator can see everything as well.
In the end it does not matter wether he would set the "speed" to 1 frame every 0.1 seconds, or 1 frame every 500 seconds. Nothing would change for the objects living in this world.

Of course this little story is not the exact situation we are in, but I think when I read stuff in the bible like "for God 1 second is like 1000 years and the other way around", a similar situation could be truth.
When you look at it like this, you also realize how pointless it is to try to understand things we can not see or understand without a direct reference to the place where God is.

If something is created from outside of our time that we are in, does that not need a time outside our time to be possible? Nothing could be created if there was no "existance/time" already in wich God to create it in. No?

And then we get to the "eternity/infinity" arguement. If there is a time outside our time then does eternity exist in the outside time? If it does, does that not leads to the same "dead end" as in explaining our time in terms of eternity?

The Creator outside our time would be unable to create our time if his own time was infinite because then he would be forced to wait infinite "moments" for the "moment" of creating to occur?


Phew.. that made me think . It make sense to me. But i'll let you look at it and say what you think.



(if the outside time isnt infinite/eternal could it exist anyway?)

I haven't figured on that yet.

Originally posted by lilblam

Annoying? Don't read.

I back up everything I say. Assumptions have no backing. Enough said.

The future is fluid, don't ignore free will (this regarding the last question).

You choose to disregard my explanation, that is your choice. You do not pose an objective and logical argument, all you do is say "You can't know this cuz I said so".
And how do YOU know what I can and cannot understand? Just because you do not understand this, doesn't mean I can't or someone else can't. Remember: The only reason you do not understand is because you don't WANT to understand. Your purpose is to argue for your deeply held beliefs, you are following the entropic principle and amount to nothing more than food for the moon. Don't confuse your self-limitation with the infinite capacity of the mind.

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by lilblam]

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by lilblam]

I think I can decide wether I want to read your fairytales, annoying or not.
You back nothing up that you say, that's the problem.
I must admit that most of your delusions are pretty hard to back up, such as time not existing and such.
How do I know what you can and can not understand?
Knowledge. And this knowledge seems beyond you, but that's okay, everyone gets the picture in the end.
I do not choose to disregard your explanation, your explanation just sucks. It does not really explain how you know what you say.
You can't know cause I said so?
How about you can't know because that would make you the first human being who knows. (not counting retarded people)
I think I allready explained that the "I can't help it that you don't understand" attitude is making this even more hilarious. I wonder wether you even know what the word understanding means.
Oh and I hate to burst your bubble, but our mind is far from infinite. (great wordt b t w, I guess you dunno what that means either)
So what about these aliens you were talking about?
Was that serious?

Originally posted by Kiljo

If something is created from outside of our time that we are in, does that not need a time outside our time to be possible? Nothing could be created if there was no "existance/time" already in wich God to create it in. No?

And then we get to the "eternity/infinity" arguement. If there is a time outside our time then does eternity exist in the outside time? If it does, does that not leads to the same "dead end" as in explaining our time in terms of eternity?

The Creator outside our time would be unable to create our time if his own time was infinite because then he would be forced to wait infinite "moments" for the "moment" of creating to occur?


Phew.. that made me think

. It make sense to me. But i'll let you look at it and say what you think.



(if the outside time isnt infinite/eternal could it exist anyway?)

I haven't figured on that yet.

Right, and as you mentioned, one cannot CREATE if there is no time. When time doesn't exist, you can only BE. Creation means: It doesn't exist BEFORE it is created, then it is created, and only after its creation it EXISTS. But there is no before/after in a timeless existance. You either exist, or you do not. Creation is time-based!

Therefore, in a timeless universe, which it is, all things are timeless, nothing is created, nothing is destroyed, there is no beginning, no end, and no past/future - only the eternal PRESENT. And if all things exist simultaneously, then obviously the only problem is our own perception/awareness. The greater the awareness, the more of reality we can conceptualize/understand, the more we are able to do, and the more FREE WILL we GET! You have more free will than a lab rat, although we'er all just bigger lab rats

This would bring me right back to choice, and that this is the only thing that exists, and it is self-evident based on the nature of the universe, which I just outlined: Timeless/Limtless.

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by lilblam]

Originally posted by Kiljo

Originally posted by Jakko
A little experiment.

What if you could create a computerprogram that has "objects" in it that think like humans.
Objects that are as complex as humans with an AI and thinking that's just as complex as humans.
Now you would also program the world around them, everything they see hear and feel would be part of your program. The interval at which a new "frame" is made for the entire world would be set to 0.1 second.

The "humans" in your program would live and die in this timeframe of a new "moment" every 0.1 second.
Not only would they not even notice their world is "advancing" pretty slowly, they would not even be able to ever find out about it without a reference to "an outside clock".
Because that reference would not exist, they would wonder how it all works, where they are coming from and what's happening.
The creator of this program (you) would be able to pause the program, without the objects in it ever noticing the world in which they live is paused. The creator of this program would be able to see and hear everything at all times, but He would not be part of his creation once.
He would see these "objects" trying to get their mind around concepts like infinity and time, and he would have a good laugh noticing the talk about the creator being everything in their world because the creator can see everything as well.
In the end it does not matter wether he would set the "speed" to 1 frame every 0.1 seconds, or 1 frame every 500 seconds. Nothing would change for the objects living in this world.

Of course this little story is not the exact situation we are in, but I think when I read stuff in the bible like "for God 1 second is like 1000 years and the other way around", a similar situation could be truth.
When you look at it like this, you also realize how pointless it is to try to understand things we can not see or understand without a direct reference to the place where God is.

If something is created from outside of our time that we are in, does that not need a time outside our time to be possible? Nothing could be created if there was no "existance/time" already in wich God to create it in. No?

And then we get to the "eternity/infinity" arguement. If there is a time outside our time then does eternity exist in the outside time? If it does, does that not leads to the same "dead end" as in explaining our time in terms of eternity?

The Creator outside our time would be unable to create our time if his own time was infinite because then he would be forced to wait infinite "moments" for the "moment" of creating to occur?


Phew.. that made me think

. It make sense to me. But i'll let you look at it and say what you think.



(if the outside time isnt infinite/eternal could it exist anyway?)

I haven't figured on that yet.

:+) Well actually I think God is in some form of time, just not as we know it.
Maybe you can realize that explaining our time to objects in this coded program would be rather hard, because it would be like nothing they have ever seen/heard/experienced.
I think the same is the case with God and us, even if He would want to explain to us what kind of state/place He is in, He would not be able to make us understand without showing it to us.
God created the world in 7 days, this means that whenever he started creating the world, there was some form of order in which everything was done.
It was not created in one moment, and he used the last day to "rest" and to look at what He had made.
This may very well be some sort of symbolic way to explain what happened, so you can never be sure about it.

very intelligent point! How do we know GOD , Whatever it may be does live by the laws of of physics...Hence a victory for FAITH. BUT.....I stillhave to live in he tyranical suppresion...the laws of entropy, decay, cause and effect in its many manifestations. How about the cruel world a Bipolar manic has to live in....one monent they can create the greatest words of knowledge, music...physics...etc. The next they are suicidal!!!

Did you know two of eisteins children were extremem schezophrenics!!! Great wit am Maddness closely alligned...thin partitions do divide!!!!

How many of our greatest artist, actors, painters, scientist do you think have suffered for the sake of understanding reality! Do any of you really know the mental torment,,,the hell those lives live through!!!

I question your concept of the omnicient god! Really if you are intelligent enough you will see all the contadictions very clearly , but again we are dealimg with a logic that does not reflect physical reality????

You know what I am saying...I have worn this topic out since I was 16......etc..etc

I think you are dragging this out too long. Forget about it.
No one believes you.
I havn't seen one good comment.
Your comebacks are terrible.
You are an atheists.

Do not deny ignorance

Do nor deny Zuzubar

Btw 2+2=4
2 apples put with another 2 apples is FOUR

Example

! ! ! ! !!!!
00 + 00 = 0000

You know this is true. Stop using this example

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by Zuzubar]

I'm locking this thread because it's getting a little repetitious. Free free to discuss aspects of this thread in BTS Faith and Theology.

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cheers
ktpr

I'm locking this thread because it's getting a little repetitious. Free free to discuss aspects of this thread in BTS Faith and Theology.

if you have complaint about this action, please use the complaint link in the upper left hand corner.

cheers
ktpr