Gun ownership.. post-Virginia Tech

Question:

Will the degree of sanity (or the lack thereof) of the Virginia Tech shooter become the primary focus of our media following this massacre?

What influence will this have over future firearm legislation?

I have heard talks of future mandatory mental health screenings for American children. Will congress consider implementing such mandatory health screenings for those wishing to purchase firearms: a) in genuine effort to make this country safer; b) as a means of ever further regulation, and therefore, restriction of the 2nd amendment c) in effort to trickle in such screenings onto the general public; d) such an idea will not manifest.

Reasoned replies welcome -irrational replies inevitable-

"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him." --Thomas Jefferson

I guess it's still a little too early to see what kind of effect this shooting will have on the gun rights issue. What I can promise you is that anti gun groups will use this incident in their lobbying efforts very soon.

I have always believed that you can take the guns away from law bideing citizens but you'll never take them from the criminals.

These websites might be of some use to you if you would like to do some research on the subject

Gun Law News
NRA

Good god I hope not!!! He purchased the guns legally, but no doubt there will be those who use this incident to promote their anti gun clause. I dont want there to be a day when your average citizen has no protection against an armed assailant. You ban guns, thats what youll have, a populace of sheep amongst wolves.

I'm dont with my rant there. I found a few articles about that, that might interest some.
CBS
International Herald

All the rest of the articles stated the same thing.

There will, of course, be 'feel-good' politicians looking to enact more useless laws to regulate gun ownership (they don't enforce most of the ones they already have) in an effort to make themselves and the sheeple feel like they've done something. As usual it won't accomplish anything besides further infringing on legal gun ownership. I would suggest that the VT shooter did NOT obtain his guns legally. I'm not entirely conversant with VA procedures but most states take their purchase form from the guidelines published by the ATF. One form asks questions used to assess a person's suitablity to own a firearm. One question pertains to any history of mental health issues. I'll bet he lied on that one.

Let's say they banned all legal purchase of firearms. What would have prevented this nads-less psychopath from buying an illegal one off the street? What would prevent him from carrying, instead of a gun, 3 or 4 sports drink bottles with squirt tops filled with gasoline?

The only way these kinds of acts are going to be mitigated is if there are better systems in-place to identify mental health dangers. In the VT incident there was MORE than enough awareness of a serious, impending problem and some of those who were aware tried to do something about it but to no avail.

Some people desperately want to believe that by eliminating guns from the equation these kinds of incidents will go away. This kind of thinking is naive and, in my opinion, far more dangerous than the guns. More dangerous because it does nothing to solve the problem but allows people to walk away from the problem without actually doing anything to directly address it. This is a mental health issue. Not a gun issue. Sadly, the former is a much more difficult problem to address.


[edit on 19-4-2007 by jtma508]

Well one problem that seems to exist is that they file down the serial numbers, they should put chips or something for new guns so you cant file the numbers, I hear that too often and something should be done about it.

filing down serial numbers doesn't actually work. The numbers can be "raised" again with acid, or special photographic techniques. It is obvious when you look at a gun that has been altered---you can tell instantly that a little block of print has been obscured.

Most gun have their numbers imprinted, rather than raised, anyway. you'd have to dig into the metal, and scoop it out, down to a depth beyond which the metal was compressed by the shape of the numbers. And that would be even more obvious.

I heard a pundit about 10 years ago say, that if you outlawed ammunition in the USA, there's enough ammo to serve all the existing firearms for the next 40 years, at current rates of use.

In other words, GUNFIRE will be with us for a very long time, regardless of what you do to oppress the taxpayers.

It's always interesting to me that people, especially non-Americans always focus on gun ownwership as one of the hallmarks of US insanity. But cars are far more deadly than guns, killing about 5 times as many people a year. And yet you rarely hear about cars as part of America's "culture of death."

Most of the western europeans that are so horrified by american guns are also very liberal with their own cigarette laws. In europe, you can hardly find a smoke-free hotel room or public social space. Has anyone ever told them that smoking kills? I suppose that smoking is an acceptable death, while guns are not, somehow.

It's always the speck in the other person's eye, that needs attention.

.

the fact that he was able to buy such weapons even when he was considerd a threat by the courts and was asked for mental care
its funny how they sold weapons to him

Originally posted by bodrul
the fact that he was able to buy such weapons even when he was considerd a threat by the courts and was asked for mental care
its funny how they sold weapons to him

The fact?

He was not considered a threat to others by the courts mental health experts.

He met all the legal requirements to purchase firearms.

special justice, Paul M. Barnett, approved outpatient treatment.

A medical examination conducted Dec. 14 found that that Cho's "affect is flat. ... He denies suicidal ideations. He does not acknowledge symptoms of a thought disorder. His insight and judgment are normal."

The court papers indicate that Barnett checked a form that Cho "presents an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness." Barnett did not check the box that would indicate a danger to others. He ordered Cho to comply with all recommended treatments on an outpatient basis.

Cho Seung-Hui mental health

[edit on 4/19/07 by makeitso]

Originally posted by makeitso

The fact?

He was not considered a threat to others by the courts.

He met all the legal requirements to purchase firearms.

v ideo
source

Cho had previously been accused of stalking two female students, and had been taken to a mental health facility in 2005. There were also concerns at the time that he was suicidal.

bbc
He was referred to a mental health unit outside the Virginia Tech campus on 13 December for evaluation amid concerns he was feeling suicidal, police said.

Private medical records from the mental health facility remain confidential, but Cho was referred back to university authorities for counselling after his assessment and had no further contact with campus police.



Around the same time, at least two of Cho's English teachers voiced their concerns over his behaviour and the tone of his work.

Cho's writing was moody and often involved themes of violence and death that alarmed Lucinda Roy, who was at that time head of the English department at Virginia Tech.

he was mentaly unfit



[edit on 19-4-2007 by bodrul]

The media has a very short memory. Something else will happen somewhere and within two weeks you won't hear about this anymore.

In many states, you can't buy a gun if there's an active restraining order against you, particularly if it was due to domestic misconduct, i.e. stalking.

If either of the women who claimed to be stalked had gotten a restraining order, I'd be surprised if he could buy a pistol. In some jurisdictions, local law enforcement would have been informed of his attempt to buy a gun under a restraining order.

Not only did law enforcement and healtcare not act in "optimal ways," neither did the women who claimed he was a threat. . . .

The trouble with you Americans is neither guns nor gun control. It is attitude. I live in Crete, Greece and believe me the amount of firearms here is tremendous perhaps even more in percentage than America... (it is rumored that some people even have World War 2 TANKS hidden not just guns). Yet we have never witnessed phenomenae like VT. What you Americans lack is common sense, thinking ability and especialy , restraints.

But what do u expect when your goverment (no comment on that) messes up the entire Middle East under the pretext of democracy and global peace? The average moron with a gun sees this attitude and gets a bad example. Then one day he feels angry and beggins to think it is a good idea to start shooting people. Just like your goverment thinks it is a good idea to start a war when they disagree with something (or of course when there is good money to be made....) You ramble about America being the country of democracy and freedom but you have turnred it into the country of arrogance, greed and decay. VT is your own doing, it is the example your goverment gives to its own citizens, something that you yourselves have created and can't blame on anyone else... It is high time you stopped asking yourselves why these things happen only in America and feeling sorry for yourselves and instead start wondering what is it that makes you (in your own opinion of course) so high and mighty? What is it that gives you the right of meddling in other peoples lives and countries? How dare you twist sacred concepts (like freedom and democracy) to best suit your own agenda? It is this attitude that has made you hated across the world, the same attitude that backfired in your faces at the VT and Columbine events, make no mistake about it. And right here are both the cause and the result of this morbid attitude.

2 more things:
1). I mean no disrespect to the victims of VT and their families. Indeed I am very sorry this ever happened and sincerely apologise to any of them who may find the above offensive.
2). I am not a crazy anti-american guy. I smoke Lucky Strike, wear Levis, have coffee at Starbucks and love Coca Cola and intend to continue doing so. What I am is an indignant THINKING person who is fed up with your overall lack of concern for others. All I am saying is that with events such as these you are just harvesting your own seeds of destruction. STOP then asking why as it is very simple. STOP having stupid arguments like gun control cause they are irrelevant. STOP having a great idea of yourselves as it is most certainly wrong and will lead to more of this. START mending your attitude and sooner than you know it America will be the nation that you all dream about.

The unfortunate truth is that each mass shooting incident, especially those involving weapons with high capacity magazines, give additional weight to the "Nanny will take care of you" gun control lobbyists.

The current high levels of support for the Democrats and the near certainty of a Democrat President in 2008 mean that H.R. 1022 and H.R. 1859 will likely be passed.

That means no more high caps and no more "assault style" rifles, so unless you're a revolver guy or bolt action fan, you may need to start saving.

If you want a Glock 17 and a Colt 6920, buy them soon and also lay in a plentiful supply of 17 and 30 round magazines respectfully.

Mr.Cho and his friends will ultimately make life and lot more difficult and ironically a lot more dangerous for all of us.

Here are links to the two aforementioned congressional proposals:

H.R. 1022

H.R. 1859

Wow, you guys love your guns. Only 2 groups of people I can see you fearing, the government and yourselves.

To be honest, I a little suspicious of the V.Tech shooting do to its timing, body count, the identity of the shooter, the way the media handled it, and the fact that the biggest issue seems to be gun laws, not his "motives".

The very first I heard of it in fact, was in a debate about civilian ownership of firearms. Port Arthur anyone?

I know that in Belgium and Holland there were voluntary collection days for fire arms[to get rid of it] also semi-automatic weapons where people have no license for..they give them a little reward and most of the time the response was tremendous..thats a start..
I red some time ago that in Switserland the amount of guns per 1000 people is bigger then in the us[mostly because soldiers can hold their arms after they're out of service] there are some problems but not on such a scale as in the us..
just get rid of it and change that consitution if needed..

It wasn't even the biggest loss of life in a US school killing but how we forget when it doesn't involve guns.

freepages.history.rootsweb.com...

Near my home

mikell

Criminals love countries where its citizens cannot defend themselves. Such is the case in Australia and Great Britain, and other places.

Gun Control Backfires Overseas

Following a psychiatric exam in December of 2005, a Montgomery County, Virginia, district court suspected that Cho Seung-Hui was mentally ill and a danger to himself and others. However, he was never committed but released, and was still legally eligible to purchase firearms.

The laws need to be changed.

A two-part solution:

1. Non-citizens and permanent aliens should never have the opportunity to even enter gun shops, much less purchase firearms and other weapons.

2. Those who are suspected of being mentally ill by the court should have a probationary period - like six months - and then have a second psychiatric exam to determine if there is any sign of mental illness - especially disorders that lead to violent acts. In the meantime, they should not be allowed to purchase firearms and other weapons, and they should also be IMMEDIATELY escorted out of the country and back to their place of origin, to await their second psychiatric examination.

Until the laws change, crimes of this nature will continue. And if the purchase of guns by citizens with clean police records is made illegal, then it still will be relatively easy for people like Cho to slaughter many innocents, because firearms would simply be purchased illegally

Just as they are now in places like the UK and Australia.

4. States that allow registered citizens to carry concealed weapons have lower crime rates than those that don't.

True. The 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns.

Source: Gun Control: Myths & Realities

[edit on 24-4-2007 by Paul_Richard]

Did anyone notice the anti-gun, liberal advertising about abolishing guns from the US. We had the special on Scotland who after a school shooting, led by Tony Blair abolished gun for the UK. We had people coming forward and telling us how if we cared at all, if we loved our children we would abolish guns. PLEASE Guns don't kill people, people kill people. If we abolished gun's they would just go back to kniving each other.

The only thing that guns laws do is take guns out of our hands.

The Criminals still have them

Wake up and think for yourselves, quit letting these moron's trying and tell you how to breath.

One question for you, did the anti-flying lobby go after Boeing after 9-11. They were used as a weapon right? They killed a lot of people.

Lets abolish all airplanes, right, their.... Evil right