Moore's 'SICKO' Stunt Takes 9/11 Workers To Cuba

Originally posted by Flyer
[edit on 4/15/2007 by shots]

That makes no sense, the US probably has the most top specialists in the world so their healthcare must be the best and I must be imagining the millions of people unable to afford it.



I was not the one making the claim that was Cuba making the claim they had the best medical health care or it may have been TG who made the claim.

Kindly pay attention to what has been said and by who. If you had you would have seen I clearly stated they could not have the best health care if they had there would have been no need to call on Spain.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 4/15/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by iori_komei
...it's not impossible that they have a good healthcare system,
but they needed a specialist, of which the few there are, the only one who
wished to help was from Spain.

I was thinking the same thing. And you said it yourself, they are a small country and even with a "good healthcare system" simply may not have anyone in that area of expertise.

Then again, maybe Fidel just wanted the best in the world to take care of him. It wouldn't be the first time a leader contradicted his confidence in one of his superior "institutions."

All I can say is when Moore's F911 - came out - lots of people trashed it.

I live in a Right Wing Military Base town -- when I'd hear people trashing this movie -- I asked them if they had seen it. NO - Not One Had Seen It. And they planned on Never Seeing It.

Moore presents an opinion in docu-drama style. It is his opinion. You don't have to like it.

But if you are going to trash his movie/docu-drama -- see the damn thing first.

Originally posted by Annee
But if you are going to trash his movie/docu-drama -- see the damn thing first.

Yeah, I never got the whole "crap on something you haven't read or seen" thing either. I always try to call people on that when they do it.

I usually get a kick out of Moore's stuff, but he gets a little too preachy at times. Still, to this day, I think Roger and Me was his best work. For a guy who grew up in Detroit, it was nice to see someone really tackling the issue that was effecting everyone I knew.

It wasn't the best way to do it, but it got people talking.

I think that he is trying to go about this the wrong way. He could have more easily took these people to Canada to make the exact same point but to Cuba?

This is sensationalism to the extreme and that is what is wrong. I know what he was trying to say but the way he did it is not the way to go. But you know what they say Bad press is still press and so he will of course come out on top with this latest stunt as he has before.

Originally posted by iori_komei
Well, I personally don't have a problem with this documentary, but I will
not be going to see it either, Michael Moore is to far to the weird-radical-
left for my tastes.


I wasn't aware Cuba had good health care, I mean it wouldn't surprise me,
considering that they have been known for there doctors, but I suppose I
just never hear about Cuba enough to know about that.

Moore is to far left for YOU iori????? Whaaat. If that is true, then he should be to far left for almost anyone!

The stunt is stupid no doubt.. I would prefer he go to Europe somewhere and give them regular medicine with no special benefit to compare it to Americas, not Cubas. All in all the American health care system has its flaws of course, and we are obviously pretending there have been no side effects to ground zero.. just as we are with Vietnam and Gulf War I .. pretending side effects are non existent hoping they will go away..

But, this is Moore, so expect the entire American health care system's flaws to be entirely Bush's fault, and somehow related to the war. And I am sure you will hear praises for Hillary's or Obama's much better health care plan.

The problem of US healthcare is not that the (extreme) poor can not afford it. But Healthcare professionals and institutions are at the control of the insurance companies and government programs of Medicare and Medicaid.

Simply put they can not afford to extend wanted and marginally needed to patients without compensation. If the insurance company or government program refuses to pay for treatment then the patient recieves lowered to non-existant care. The HMO's (contractual pacts between insurance companies and medical care providers) also practice things and decide factors such as quality of life and even age despite general health conditions. Logan's Run for the seniors whenever they need help.

Medicine and treatment procedures have to be approved by the FDA. Crystals and chakra realignments are fine for homopathic procedures but claiming a cure for prostrate cancer for popping St. John's Wort capsules endangers the public health.

Then again if you are old and not a millionare you might be better off taking a heavy regiment of rat poison or visiting Lorena Bobbit for a quick surgery.

Michael Moore is nothing but a grand-stander and IMHO a Commie sympathizer. I pay little attention to his fake everyman political antics. He's been part of the infotainment industry since the 70's. He was a writer not a autoworker before he made his film Roger and Me. He was fired from Mother Jones(one very liberal magazine) for refusing to publish an article critical of the Communist-backed Santanista's govt of Nicaragua's human rights record. They were no better than the Somoza regime in many regards. I've seen Farenheit 911 and it was as much a propaganda piece as anything I've seen from Murdoch's Fox News Network.

That said : Why the huge double standards for Cubanos over other ethnic groups when it comes to immigration? Haitians come here on boats, too, fleeing conditions much worse than Cuba's but they're sent back. I say we should send the Cubans back,too. The same way we send any other illegal immigrant to our country who are coming here to make MONEY, first and foremost. I'm deadly tired of the whole CUBA LIBRE movement. You guys fled your country nearly 50 years ago with rather than fight to the death for it against the Commies.

A Commie Sympathizer?

Why do I feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone episode?

Originally posted by Annee
A Commie Sympathizer?

Why do I feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone episode?

There are lots of them around, and welcome to "The Twilight Zone"

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Let's not miss his point.....

Ah yes .. his point. Michael Moores point is that he hates America and wants to live in a socialist/communist nightmare instead. His 'documentaries' are full of easily de-bunked lies and are nothing more than staged propaganda.

Yes, by all means .. let's not miss 'the point' of all this.

Originally posted by shots
Their health system cannot be the best. If it was the best they would not have had to call on Spaln. when he was so ill.

Exactly!

Originally posted by whatukno
He could have more easily took these people to Canada to make the exact same point but to Cuba?

EXCELLENT point whatukno!

Originally posted by Annee
All I can say is when Moore's F911 - came out - lots of people trashed it.

Geee, I wonder why? www.moorewatch.com...

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Michael Moores point is that he hates America and wants to live in a socialist/communist nightmare instead.

I don't remember him saying on record that he hates America. I also don't remember him saying on record that he wants to "live in a socialist/communist nightmare."

Do you have anything that can corroborate that statement, or did you just extrapolate that out of how you viewed his "movies" or what you read in his "books."



[edit on 16-4-2007 by The Big O]

Isn't it more reprehensible that 911 first responders are permitted to die slowly without health care, than it is reprehensible to provide them with health care in Cuba's socialized system?

Cuba's economy is in the pits because of American sanctions - Still they are one of the only nations to provide the children of Chernobyl with health care.

Maybe what is really threatening about Moore's media stunt, is that it's tactics so much reflect the reflexive and propagandized extremes in ideologue that now parade as debate.

At one time Americans could jack up their credit debts in order to obtain health care in an emergency, the new legislation introduced by Bush concerning credit has made that more difficult.

Is it not 1 in 4 people who will lose their life savings and be bankrupted by medical costs in America? They won't be able to travel either.

25% of returning veterans are applying for disability pensions, loss of limbs, post traumatic stress - damn commies.

Why does America still have sanctions on Cuba?

I'm really not understanding the "SICKO" part.

Originally posted by iori_komei

I was'nt aware Cuba had good healthcare, I mean it would'nt surprise me,
considering that they have been known for there doctors, but I suppose I
just never hear about Cuba enough to know about that.

Cuba has a good healthcare system?.....

Sorry, but that's not completely true... on paper it "might" look so, but it is not true in the least.

These people were taken to the hospitals for "tourists"...yeah, those are fully loaded, have the best technology, never lack anything etc, etc... but the regular Cuban people can't go to these hospitals...

M Moore and Alex Jones have really to be desperate to go to Cuba and Venezuela to "get the truth about the United States"....

[edit on 16-4-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by iori_komei

I was'nt aware Cuba had good healthcare, I mean it would'nt surprise me,
considering that they have been known for there doctors, but I suppose I
just never hear about Cuba enough to know about that.

Cuba has a good healthcare?.....

Sorry, but that's not completely true... on paper it "might" look so, but it is not true in the least.

These people were taken to the hospitals for "tourists"...yeah, those are fully loaded, have the best technology, never lack anything etc, etc... but the regular Cuban people can't go to these hospitals...

M Moore and Alex Jones have really to be desperate to go to Cuba and Venezuela to "get the truth about the United States"....

What is your expertise and source to back up your statement.

Originally posted by iori_komei

Originally posted by dgtempe
Castro does have the best said health system in the world.

You mean Castro himself does, or Cuba in general, because as it stands
France is considered to have the best healthcare system in the world.

I was also born in Cuba and lived there until i was 8 years old. I went back to visit in 2001. Some of my family members are doctors, and dentists, and I found out once again first hand "how good the health system is in Cuba."

More often than not the normal hospitals for Cubans are not fully stocked while the "tourist hospitals have everything".

I am not so sure i would have been able to go to the "tourist hospital" since when I was in Cuba I was considered "only Cuban", even if i made an oath of loyalty in the United States to be an American citizen.

A healthcare system is not only what service can be provided in hospitals but also what sort of food and what amounts of food are available to Cubans and mostly to children.

My parents and I could go and take some of my family to the "tourist shops" because we had American Dollars. My family members would be like a kid in a candy store for the first time in these "tourist shops."

One of my aunts that went with us when she returned back home started crying after she had seen all the stuff that was "available to tourists or anyone with a lot of dollars" and it was not available to her own children.

Even thought my parents would send them money, we were never rich so we could only spare enough to send to all our family back in Cuba enough that the money only covered food and some medicine which could be bought in the black market.

Some of my younger cousins saw "old game systems" like the regular nintendo, and they thought those were the latest technology in games.

Most Cuban children don't know anything about the U.S., they are taught since early childhood that "The West and in general the U.S. is evil"

At around 11, sometimes at 12 years old children have to go to summer work camps and work in the fields and were watched not to take any of the products for themselves or anyone else.

That's the way that Cubans pay for their studies. Don't believe the lies that "the health and education system in Cuba is free, because that's a lie.

Whatever a family and each individual can eat, is rationed by the "socialist system"... Cuban people can buy only a certain amount of food and other general items such as soap, tp, toothpaste etc, only if they are available in the bodegas.

Children since an early age and all family members are issued a "libreta" (notebook of rations) which tells them how much of what they can buy, if they have the money and if there is any available.

At 7 years old Cuban children cannot drink milk anymore because "they are old enough that they don't have to drink milk".... according to the socialist/communist system...

By working in summer camps since 11 years old or so, until they graduate from "la segundaria", which would be like High School in the U.S., or until they graduate from the University if they decide to continue studying, and then having in mind that they would earn as much money as a person working in a store would; every Cuban citizen since the early age of 11-12 have to go to these summer work camps, which are nothing like the boyscout and summer camps in the U.S. or other countries... These are real work camps for children...

Only by working in the black market can some Cubans make more money, or if they have family outside of Cuba their family sends them money to be able to buy food, and some medicine and other necessities in the black market where of course the prices are exorbitant.

More often than not even police officers are in the deals with some of the Cubans that buy in the black market so they can also feed their families and in this way they "overlook the action of those Cubans buying in the black market"...

Yeah....it is great in cuba....right...

And please don't tell me that BS that it is because of the U.S., because that's another lie the "Communist system" indoctrinates in Cubans since they start going to school...

There is enough production in Cuba of food, or even the tobacco/sugar production which could buy food for all Cubans in the island....

The Socialist/Communist system is the one that is opressing the people of Cuba.

[edit on 16-4-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by whatukno
I think that he is trying to go about this the wrong way. He could have more easily took these people to Canada to make the exact same point but to Cuba?

Ah yes, but Cuba makes more of a statement, no? So he couldn't make THAT exact same point by going to Canada as it isn't just about obtaining good-or better than the US-health care, he's always got an ulterior motive and has to over-sensationalize.

I'm sure he sold Cuba on the idea for quite a price too. *Cha-ching!*

Nothing like making hordes of money by spreading propaganda.

Originally posted by whatukno
This is sensationalism to the extreme and that is what is wrong.

Indeed!!

Am also Cuban and everything Muaddib said is true. I went to work camp for the first time when i was 12 years old for 45 days. We would get up at 6, have some breakfast usually milk or Cerela( a mix of vitamins and nutrients that taske like ****). Pick tomatoes or potatoes, cut sugarcain or whatever is in season from 8-4. Then take a shower, eat whatever they would gave us watch some TV and go to sleep.