I'm having a problem with Tunnels.

There are reports of underground bases that are interconnected by tunnels that span hundreds of miles, and I don't see how this is possible. For one thing, the only underground base that I know exist for sure in the United States (besides bunkers) is the facility under Cheyenne Mountain, which has a damn big entrance for logistic support, and you can see that.
Any large base underground would also have to have access to large supplies for logistic support, so they should have some visible means of supplying the base, but I don't see that on any of these secret bases. It is inferred that they are supplied by tunnels, and I can't see how this is possible, considering the the equipment, men, supplies, and disposing of the tailing's, let alone the cost. I know about the tunnels of Cu Chi, the Iron Triangle, which were about 135 miles in total, and they did move supplies through them, but these tunnels would not supply any U.S. base.
Below is an example of what it takes, and how long it takes to build a rail tunnel 35 miles long, and you can see why I doubt that we have any tunnels running any appreciable length connecting bases.

Deep beneath the Alps, the Swiss are building a high-speed rail link between Zurich and Milan. It will include, at 57 kilometres (35 miles), the world's longest tunnel. The scale of the work going on is enormous: 2,000 people are working on the tunnel, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Besides the two main railway tubes, the construction workers have to dig access tunnels for people and equipment.
"In poor rock conditions, where the rock is very soft, we can only excavate around half a metre a day," says Mr Schmid. "So in these situations, the work is delayed, and the costs rise." The price tag for the entire rail link has soared from about $8bn (£4bn) to almost $15bn and final completion is unlikely to be before 2018.

It is reported that in some cases, a mole can advance about 76 m (250 ft) a day, depending on the diameter of the tunnel and the type of rock being bored.

So... all that being said, what do you think?

Cu Chi Tunnels "Iron Triangle"

You might be correct about the amount of rock they can move per day, etc, however they are using man made technology to do so.

The secret bases / tunnels are believed by some to have been made using "alien" tech.

The thing I'm wondering: have any of these tunnel theorists ever worked in a tunnel?

The rock removed from the tunnel is dense and compact. It gets busted into sand and gravel so it can be removed. You turn 10,000 cubic feet of Dolomite limestone into sand and gravel, you get 15 - 20,000 cubic feet of limestone sand and gravel.

Where does it go? If they dig a 600 mile tunnel from Area 51 to Dulce, do they truck the gravel underground all the way back to Area 51? Where does it go from there?

Ventilation: Huge steel ducts blowing vast volumes of air. People got to breathe, Diesels need air, and the dust has to blow out. The fans are stupendous, and the noise...

Big Diesel generators to feed the tunnel, power substations for 3 phase 480.

Speculation comes easily to the uninformed. Spend some time working around tunnels, reality slaps speculation in to the dirt.

Originally posted by xenu brings order
Ventilation: Huge steel ducts blowing vast volumes of air. People got to breathe, Diesels need air, and the dust has to blow out. The fans are stupendous, and the noise...

Big Diesel generators to feed the tunnel, power substations for 3 phase 480.

again all I can say is ... your facts are based on man made technology and engineering.

I'm not saying that I necessarily believe in the "alien" tech, but just not ruling it out.

Edit: Because my work computer hates me and cursed my post. I'm to lazy to re-type it all.

[edit on 12-4-2007 by Baphomet79]

There have been designs posted on here of gigantic, nuclear-powered tunnelling machines dating back to the 1960's, I believe. They were actually sitting somewhere in the US Patents office on file. There is debate over whether or not these machines ever left the drawing board and were actually produced. But I do remember reading one story about one of these huge machines, and as it tunneled through the rocks and whatnot, it generated so much heat that it turned the rock material into a glass-like surface on the tunnel walls which also helped to re-enforce the tunnels. Of course this could just be David Icke-like propaganda. I don't have a source for any of this but I am positive that there are threads on ATS about these tunneling machines. There are even pictures of some of them but I'm not sure if they are legit or photoshopped.

But like another poster already said in this thread- if these tunnels do exist then they were obviously created with technology that us average folks have no clue even exists. There also may be no need for things like air vents and shafts and giant fans if the tunnel transportation vehicles have their own on-board oxygen and whatnot. Supposedly if these tunnels exist there are super-speed transportation vehicles that move people and cargo at phenomenal rates of speed from base to base.

We could also take into account some of the "hollow earth" theories. For all we know a vast majority of these tunnels already existed long ago in the form of hollow areas under the earth. Maybe all we needed to do was connect our bases to them and map them out. Maybe advanced civilizations that lived on earth before us used their advanced technology to create these tunnels and we are now just using them. Maybe they were built for us by aliens, or builty by us with alien technology. The point is that if we have no idea about the tunnels themselves (ie: size, distance, location, etc) then we cannot begin to imagine how or when they were created/constructed. Maybe our government uses the disguise of commercial mining operations to build these tunnels and remove the massive amounts of debris?

Maybe there are no tunnels.

Maybe there is no alien technology, because there are no aliens.

You have to wonder why these tunnels don't show themselves to seismologists. 600 mile long discontinuity in the rock, sensors don't see it?

Originally posted by xenu brings order
The thing I'm wondering: have any of these tunnel theorists ever worked in a tunnel?

The rock removed from the tunnel is dense and compact. It gets busted into sand and gravel so it can be removed. You turn 10,000 cubic feet of Dolomite limestone into sand and gravel, you get 15 - 20,000 cubic feet of limestone sand and gravel.

Where does it go? If they dig a 600 mile tunnel from Area 51 to Dulce, do they truck the gravel underground all the way back to Area 51? Where does it go from there?

Ventilation: Huge steel ducts blowing vast volumes of air. People got to breathe, Diesels need air, and the dust has to blow out. The fans are stupendous, and the noise...

Big Diesel generators to feed the tunnel, power substations for 3 phase 480.

Speculation comes easily to the uninformed. Spend some time working around tunnels, reality slaps speculation in to the dirt.

Thank you for your comment.

You just left John Leer in the cacksuckin wind.

I completely agree!

Originally posted by elevatedone
You might be correct about the amount of rock they can move per day, etc, however they are using man made technology to do so.

The secret bases / tunnels are believed by some to have been made using "alien" tech.

So when you can't explain something you dismiss it as 'Alien tech'? Sorry for being rude, but that's how I see it.

[edit on 14-4-2007 by PisTonZOR]

Having huge networks of tunnels interconnecting bases, or even leading out of bases isn't at all practical.

First of all, as others have said, ventilation would be a serious problem. Evidence on the surface would be unmistakable.

Also, moving equipment around in tunnels wouldn't be cost effective, they would have to use trucks, or trains. Considering aircraft are faster, more reliable and can carry a heavier load, thats another bullet in the tunnel theory.

Detection by geologists, scientists, whatever would be impossible to hide. These guys can detect a cave a few metres across, surely they'd be able to see a massive tunnel network.

The manpower needed to physically construct the tunnels would be immense. Hundreds, if not thousands of people, vehicles and equipment would be noticed.

Last, but by no means least, is that it's easier to build a massive 'basement' under a base to hide stuff and use aircraft to transport it.

That's the way I see it.

I disagree that tunnels are improbable. A lesson well learned in the Vietnam conflict was the use of tunnels. To think a powered steam drill, laser tech, or directed blasting isn't used to hollow out tunnels is ridiculous.

When you ask those that had to deal with the VC tunnels, they say it was the most difficult task. You could bomb the livin' daylights out of them, with little effect at times:

www.diggerhistory.info...

The use of fission, as someone suggested, would best be by applying it to generated steam, and impact it on the surface of the rock. This would not only disrupt the setting, but assist greatly in removal under proper construction.

Happened to think of the tunnel system in some of the major metropolis areas, too. Subways are quite useful, and they were constructed. Difficulty aside, they're there and in wide use. The benefit is excessive, and the technology to create them wasn't that advanced.

[edit on 4/14/2007 by bothered]

Originally posted by bothered
Happened to think of the tunnel system in some of the major metropolis areas, too. Subways are quite useful, and they were constructed. Difficulty aside, they're there and in wide use. The benefit is excessive, and the technology to create them wasn't that advanced.

You are, of course, correct. However, subway tunnels don't come anywhere near the scale suggested by the notorious "super secret tunnel networks connecting bases around the whole of America"-fans! And most importantly, the construction of even relatively small tunnels is noticed by everyone around! That's the whole point. You can dig really big tunnels with enough effort, but you can't hide this activity. Therefore, any really large tunnel systems would be public knowledge.

Regards
yf