British Hostages NOT tortured even remotely!

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
As I respect your position, I must agree to disagree. You can tell fake smiles. Look at them again. Seriously look at the faces. There is ZERO distress in them. They almost look to be on holiday.

im sorry but actors in films can make a smile look real because there actors, now under extreme pressure like these guys were under im sure they could do the same, and if that looks like a holiday resort there at, you must have been to some really bad resorts if you think that.

I agree with the other guy, their body language and voice tones had no signs of distress at all, especially one particular guy who was explaining that they were in Iranian waters.

These soldiers were treated fairly well compared to most people who are taken captive, I think we can all agree on that.

But people will look for any little thing to point the finger at and go "look they are evil!" Anything, enrichment programs, interrogating captured sailors, what else would they do with them, the police interrogate people rougher than the Iranians did...what else...ahh yes, when Iran says it will defend itself if attacked by Israel, people go "look they wanna attack Israel, and wipe it off the map", go read the translations.

Your government and media have got you paranoid into viewing everyone who doesnt do as you tell them to, to be the enemy. Its a basic sign of psychosis, thinking everyone is against you. Iran doesnt want to fight with you. Why would they want to?

But keep buying into the whole lie fed to you by your bought and paid for media and your crooked government who are bought and paid for by the banks, and see more of your american children die in a needless war.

[edit on 9-4-2007 by LightWorker13]

The only claim of torture they made was being blindfolded and put in solitary for a few days. They heard calking of guns and that scared them.
It would me too.
(unless i've dead wrong) this was the extent of the horror they suffered.

I'll tell you what, those Beatles' shinny suits from the '60's ( where the hell did they find them) were something else!!! And the little suitcases!!!.........That was pure torture!! Folks, no matter what anyone says, i'm sure there was some trauma inflicted on these people..we just dont know the extent or the truth of anything anymore...

One thing they're not is cowards. Under the circumstances, i would have also chosen to LIVE.

Originally posted by amfirst
The Iranians can suck it! Who gives a sh*t what the Iranians has to say. The british sailors shouldn't be kidnap anyways. I mean what did they do?In any country you would years in prison for kinapping. There's no justification in kinapping innocent people. End of story.

Hey buddy, i suggest you look into the stories of Gitmo and see some of the innocent people who were captured and tortured FOR REAL and i don't mean the playing ping pong type of torture...

Iranian official have release photographs of British soldier watching television, playing games, and enjoying ping-pong for nearly two weeks.

one word 'staged'

Define staged. And explain why they staged it.

If they did stage it, it was to show the West they werent treating the captives badly, so they wouldnt be "bombed back to the Stone Age" as I heard one person on the news suggest.

To bomb them back to the stone age over 15 people would have been a big mistake in my book, the many outweigh the few in doing so the Iranians would have killed them blaming it on the UK saying they had been killed by a missile/bomb, and with out a shadow of a doubt inflamed the situation and probably turned it into ww3 maybe even starting a nuclear war killed millions all for the lives of 15 people. with out a shadow of a doubt Russia and china had something to do with there release in the background as they have too many interests.

You know, maybe Iran wanted to treat them as horrible as possible, maybe they wanted to kill them. Very very possible.

But they didnt, so why? Maybe they were playing it smart. They couldnt risk provoking the West even more by being cruel to these captives. Its obvious, that Iran did not want to provoke a war with this event.

Britain, upon seeing the footage coming out of Tehran, where kind of caught in a hole because the captives werent being treated badly, so they couldnt use it to help make Iran look like more of a bad guy.

Eventually, these soldiers are released, and they are brought back home in good condition.

But why would the soldiers come out all of a sudden, and say they were treated badly, we were tortured, threatened to kill me and my daughter? Why?

Could it be to make Iran look like more of a bad guy? Could it be to build up distrust and hate towards Iran?

Just so I have the International "rules" correct.... blind folding and isolation is unacceptable but water boarding, sleep deprivation and no access to try to prove you're innocence is acceptable. I find it odd that when the Brits confessed is was "propoganda," but when Khalid Sheik Mohammed confessed it was legit no questions asked. If you've been in captivity for 1 week and confess then you must have been made to confess. However, if you're in captivity for 4 years, that confession is 100% solid. Secret prisons, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, torture, unlimited prison time these things are okay, but public arrests, written confessions and public release is the work of evil.

Those guys had spent days on their own in their cells. When the Iranians allowed them to mix and have a little staged R+R together it's pretty bloody obvious they are going to be happy to see each other!

Don't you think the Iranians thought the same thing?

Sheesh, it seems independent thought is going out fast these days

Cheers,
Zep

The difference is that the Brits were uniformed personnel serving a recognized government.

The killers and monsters that commit mass murder are not.

That the two could be compared is... disturbing.

I don't think we can consider these photos to be absolutely genuine.

We don't know when they were taken for a start. If they were taken a day or two after capture and they had been told they were probably going to be released shortly then perhaps that's why they look happy. There are all kinds of ways the Iranians could have persuaded (or even forced) the sailors and marines to look happy, especially for a still photograph.

We also know the Iranians have done some rather nasty things when this happened before. Remember the grave digging and so forth?

To call these genuine is dubious at best, and utterly wrong at worst.

How the do you know...

Don't talk about stuff with a certainly that you know nothing about.

Ohhh; can I play

This one is easy. Being taken hostage is torture. In fact it is such an egregious crime it carries the death penalty in many jurisdictions. Too many, death would be preferable to having all freedom taken away. Those people will suffer with mental health issues for the rest of their lives.

They were taken against their will while conducting an operation under a UN Mandate. Kept captive with no control over any aspect of their lives. They did not know when or if food or water would be supplied. They did not know if they were there for a day, week, month, year or the rest of their lives. There was nothing they could do to save themselves and did not know if anyone would come to save them or when. If that is not torture what is?

Why are you not condemning Iran for posing them for propaganda photos. Personal bias does not deny ignorance it embraces it fully. Believing Iran's propaganda is the equivalent of an adult believing in the Tooth Fairy. Until Great Britain starts strapping bombs to their children and blowing up their own people I've got to believe them long before I'll believe people who do just that as a matter of course. Iranian behavior is so bizarre; I think we need to test their water to see what chemical is causing it. What causes such a large part of a population to exhibit psychotic behavior like this? Why have they allowed people who belong in an asylum to rule over them?

Every time I think of a parent strapping a bomb to their own offspring to blow up innocent members of their own population I get the chills. The evil it would take to do that boggles the mind. Nazis were civilized compared to this group of Psycopaths.

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
I have to believe the recently released British soldiers when they reported that they were blindfolded. OK, being blindfolded isn't much of a torture. However, if I were blindfolded, and I heard the sound of a firearm being cocked and loaded, it certainly would raise more than a few moments of concern. Is acute anxiety and concern for one's own safety, much less one's own life, torture?

I think it is.

I don't mean to sound insensitive to what happened to these people, but i believe that the example listed, is commonly known as a windup, and it happens all the time, particularly within the military - if you train someone to kill, they are always going to have a bit of a different view of things.
It depends how you define torture - yes the example COULD be viewed as torture, but in light of accounts of other torture victims, I think it pales into insignificance.
I understand that there are many levels of torture, I'm just not sure this counts.

sounds like psychological torture to me.

Something our country and the UN deems as acceptable.

Ofcourse, we're talking about the people that have paved the way with finding neat ways to torturing people, and who glorifies such acts every Friday Night on Fox.

If Jack Bauer forgot where he put his keys, he'd probably torture himself to extract the keys whereabouts.

Originally posted by LightWorker13

If they did stage it, it was to show the West they werent treating the captives badly, so they wouldnt be "bombed back to the Stone Age" as I heard one person on the news suggest.

My sentiments exactly!

AAC

Originally posted by Zep Tepi
Those guys had spent days on their own in their cells. When the Iranians allowed them to mix and have a little staged R+R together it's pretty bloody obvious they are going to be happy to see each other!

Don't you think the Iranians thought the same thing?

Sheesh, it seems independent thought is going out fast these days

Cheers,
Zep

This is independent thought! You are assuming that! All the facts are that Iran said Britons were in water. Briton said no. Iranians let britons go as a gift. Britons then come out and say they were tortured. Iran comes out with pictures, disproving torture. Everything else is speculation.

So the naysayers, you want to believe UK/US stories, and don't want to think that Iran is civil. The truth is actually been clarified.

IMHO, Iran used this as a propaganda tactic to show the world that weren't 'simply' barbaric. As Guatanomo IS.

AAC

Originally posted by Ste2652
I don't think we can consider these photos to be absolutely genuine.

We don't know when they were taken for a start. If they were taken a day or two after capture and they had been told they were probably going to be released shortly then perhaps that's why they look happy. .

Okay. But they were released in perfect condition. So your position is, they captured them, told them they would leave soon, then took pictures, isolated them, then tortured them.

Again, they were released before easter in PERFECT condition. So?

AAC

Originally posted by Royal76
How the

do you know...

Don't talk about stuff with a certainly that you know nothing about.

And to who is this directed towards?

AAC