Forest on Mars !?!?

Many..many .. flat holes on Mars :

this is just from one strip:











*original MSSS strip

About what we know from Mars images:
one is our dear busy rover - and the other one... dune as usual.



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[edit on 25-5-2007 by blue bird]

Originally posted by ZikhaN
That's pretty interesting. That "hole" looks very suspicious too. Wonder what it really is..

[edit on 25-5-2007 by ZikhaN]

So thats where th ocean went, somebody pulled out the plug!

This week I have been reading "The gods of Mars", from Edgar Rice Burroughs, and today I read this:

As we neared the dark, truncated cone the vessel's speed was diminished until we barely moved. Then we topped the crest of the mountain and below us I saw yawning the mouth of a huge circular well, the bottom of which was lost in inky blackness.

The diameter of this enormous pit was fully a thousand feet. The walls were smooth and appeared to be composed of a black, basaltic rock.

Just a coincidence... I think

Originally posted by blue bird
What is this???

I have been mulling this over. It is good to mull once in a while.

Here's my take:

There is an aquifer under the area, and repeated freezing and thawing has raised and loosened the ground above it. Where this ground is most weak eventually a cave in occurs, and the debris is swept away by periodic underground flooding by the aquifers.

Either that or it is a breathing hole for a city left behind by an advanced Martian race. I opt for the former explanation.

Originally posted by ArMaP
This week I have been reading "The gods of Mars", from Edgar Rice Burroughs

Interesting you should say this. Authors publish in SF what would be considered fanatasic and uncredible by any other discipline, but nevertheless containing elements closer to the truth than is dared acceptable. That is why so many SF works appear prophetic.

For example, I have been considering a system that has a planet(s?) called Methuselah that is a mere billion years younger than the universe. It fascinates me, because it is the strongest candidate for the improbable. Currently there is little room in the scientific disciplines for this speculation, perhaps there is more in philosophy or mathematics, but it can be best adapted for a fine SF work in the literary tradition!

Originally posted by blue bird
And on the smaller one - it is visible a some kind of elevated rim triangle structure - with another smaller hole

Oops sorry forgot the original

barsoom.msss.com...

The structure in the right side one literally looks like it is descending as the perspective changes I would love to see a HiRISE of this one

Originally posted by DuncanIdahoGholem
So thats where th ocean went, somebody pulled out the plug!

By JOVE you hit it! Its the ABYSS only this one is on Mars...

Its where all the water drained into and reappeared out of the Abyss on Earth, causing the Biblical flood!!!!

WOW Undo is gonna love this one

Originally posted by ArMaP
Just a coincidence... I think

There is no such thing as coincidence... don't forget he also gave us "At the Earth's Core" the tales of the Inner Earth which started the Hollow Earth theories...

Maybe he knew more that we suspect?

In any event... great contribution to the cause

Originally posted by zorgon
Oops sorry forgot the original

barsoom.msss.com...

The structure in the right side one literally looks like it is descending as the perspective changes I would love to see a HiRISE of this one

Definitely ...
Interesting strip - found this hole:





and this is interesting:

2x post

[edit on 26-5-2007 by blue bird]

My Favorite Hole on Mars

The open pit mining operation...



Detail from the top edge...




Comparison to Earth mine in Utah



Must see page showing close up details and anomalies on Mars and on Earth

Original Image MSSS M0401289.gif


[edit on 26-5-2007 by zorgon]

Its pit after pit...hole after hole.
The biggy one - amphitheater is amassing!


Crop some part - islands...cost line...

These are some images from Island - hot water geysers...very similar shape of Martian pits...













source

OH Speaking of Islands I never showed you my version of the famous Mars Face....

Here is the full size high resolution image that most websites avoid showing you... LOL I can see why... it sorta sinks the "Face"

www.msss.com...

But look at it as if you were a geologist for a minute... Here is a browser size version...


And here is the version I drew in the "shorelines" Since that "face" is about 400 km long, that must have been one huge ocean around it. I need to find some continental shelf images on Earth to use for comparison



Here is my page on this image...

You are right Zorgon IMO -that is what I am talking all along - so many elevated “islands“ surrounded with flat terrain that looks like slit radiating from shore.




original image



* Hans Island








[edit on 27-5-2007 by blue bird]

This is scrap (eastern side) of Olympus Mons - see those ridges and extremely smooth terrain on the floor? Like some kind of vulcano island!




ESA




* Iwo Jima Volcano




source


* NASA image // Hawaii



source

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Martian rocks are full of voids ( vugs) - on Earth chemical chrysalises and when eroded, they leave this kind of empty space in the rock.

Then the microscopic imager spotted something else. The rocks were riddled with tiny holes about a centimetre long. Geologists call them vughs. They form when long crystals grow inside rocks sitting in briny water, forcing open little cracks. When water dissolves the crystals all that remains are the holes.

Another camera snapped tantalising pictures of a layered rock. Some layers seemed to run in different directions, a pattern called cross-bedding. "Preliminary views by Opportunity," said NASA, "hint the cross-bedding bears hallmarks of water action ... [possibly] patterns formed by sinuous crestlines of underwater ridges."

source

Originally posted by ArMaP
In what state, solid or liquid? Solid is not very promising...

Liquid...

www.msss.com...

www.msss.com...

www.msss.com...

www.msss.com...

www.msss.com...

www.msss.com...

www.msss.com...

www.msss.com...

www.msss.com...

www.msss.com...

www.msss.com...

www.msss.com...

www.msss.com... ***

www.msss.com...

www.msss.com... ( Long loading time)

www.msss.com...

www.msss.com...

qt.exploratorium.edu...

There are by now plenty of admissions that there might be some flowing/standing water but i find the following VERY interesting.

On Mars the globally-averaged surface pressure of the planet's atmosphere is only slightly less

than 6.1 millibars.

"That's the average," says Haberle, "so some places will have pressures that are higher than 6.1

millibars and others will be lower. If we look at sites on Mars where the pressure is a bit higher, that's

where water can theoretically exist as a liquid."

science.msfc.nasa.gov...

What exactly is the odds that at atmospheric conditions would naturally have gotten so close to the the triple point? Seems to me NASA is cooking the books so they can go either way, without far more embarrassment, once the truth becomes obvious.

And what other evidence do we have for pools of standing water?

Furthermore, he says winds should spread water vapour through the atmosphere too quickly for it to be concentrated in certain spots. "It would take a tremendous source of water in the surface to pump water into the atmosphere faster than it would be redistributed," he says.

Krasnopolsky, standing by his methane detection, says winds should spread the trace amounts of methane around too. He believes the methane he detected is produced by bacteria that live in "oases" where liquid water can exist - however briefly - on the Martian surface, due to heating by sunlight or by a hydrothermal source.

He argues that a non-biological source of methane is unlikely because crater-counting methods suggest no surface lava on Mars is younger than 10 million years old.

But he will not rule out the possibility that underground bubbles of methane from ancient volcanism might somehow be brought to the surface to replenish the atmosphere.

www.newscientist.com...

PFS observed that, at 10-15 kilometers above the surface, water vapour is well mixed and uniform in the atmosphere. However, it found that, close to the surface, water vapor is more concentrated in three broad equatorial regions: Arabia Terra, Elysium Planum and Arcadia-Memnonia.

Here, the concentration is two to three times higher than in other regions observed. These areas of water vapor concentration also correspond to the areas where NASA's Odyssey spacecraft has observed a water ice layer a few tens of centimeters below the surface, as Dr Vittorio Formisano, PFS principal investigator, reports.

New in-depth analysis of PFS data also confirms that methane is not uniform in the atmosphere, but concentrated in some areas. The PFS team observed that the areas of highest concentration of methane overlap with the areas where water vapor and underground water ice are also concentrated. This spatial correlation between water vapor and methane seems to point to a common underground source.

www.astrobio.net...

So what should we deduce from photo's that indicate standing water coupled with localized surface concentrations of methane and water vapor?

Or kill it.

Well freezing wont kill all types but based on what we know of complex life on Earth it wont be good for it. Since it's Martian life we get to speculate some or just focus on the fact that we are seeing large lakes of liquid water.

So, does that mean that Mars has only a South magnetic pole and not a North magnetic pole? Or are both magnetic poles at the South pole?

God know their now finding active Martian plate tectonics and since we know it has a magnetosphere we know it has poles...

For a long time it was thought that Mars, like Venus, had no magnetosphere. The Russians first made measurements which suggested that there was a magnetic field present.

Scientists confirmed the existence of a magnetic field surrounding Mars using the magnetometer aboard the Mars Surveyor probe. The magnetic field was found on September 15, 1997, just 4 days after Surveyor plunged into Martian orbit.

Mars Global Surveyor's magnetometer discovered the outermost boundary of the Martian magnetic field -- known as the bow shock. The polarity of the magnetic field seems to be similar to that of Earth, though the field strength is only 1/800 the strength of the Earth's magnetic field.

All previous Martian missions had left inconclusive evidence regarding the presence of a magnetic field. Now we can be sure that Mars has a magnetosphere!

www.windows.ucar.edu...=/cool_stuff/tour_magnet_2.html&edu=high

I don't have much to add to the age of the water/ice poles so i will leave that there.

Well, I haven't seen any water on Mars photos, only signs left by some liquid material that I do not have way of knowing if it was water.

You may not have but then your clearly no authority on these matters. Here are what those who are seem to think.

"The three papers provide an overwhelming case for new thinking about recent geological activity on Mars," writes Baker in an analysis of the work.

Cataclysmic flooding

Baker said the findings support a 1991 hypothesis, then considered outrageous, that Mars has experienced episodes of cataclysmic flooding in modern times. Water is thought to have formed temporary seas, but researchers had long assumed it all evaporated into the thin Martian air.

Many scientists now agree that much of the water remained.

www.space.com...

They are surprisingly not even bothering to clarify if they think it's frozen or not..

Abstract

Streamlined forms and longitudinal grooving seen in Mars Orbital Camera (MOC) images indicate recent aqueous flooding occurred downslope (south) of the southern-most Cerberus Fossae fissure. Topography from the Mars Orbital Laser Altimeter (MOLA), in conjunction with the absence of fluvial features in MOC images immediately to the north of the Fossa, substantiate the idea that floods emanated from this fissure. The floodwater flowed southward onto the western Cerberus Plains, where it probably percolated into existing lava flows. Thus, shallow ice may still be extant beneath young lava flows in this equatorial region.

www.agu.org...

So we have rivers that 'flowed southward' where they think it probably disappeared underground. I have shown you the photo's of the South Pole so you decide for yourself.

Rumors about what has been actually identified are about as fluid as liquid itself, from water-ice deposits, concentrations of iron, to Martian springs, and even Old Faithful-like geysers.

www.space.com...

SPACE.com has learned that NASA has discovered evidence of water on the Red Planets surface. The finding, made bythe Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft, fuels hopes that there may be life onMars.

Sources close to theagencys Mars program said the discovery involves evidence of seasonal deposits that could be associated with springs on the planets surface

NASA announces discovery of evidence of water on Mars

"We now know pretty convincingly that there is liquid water on Mars, and that it's relatively accessible near the surface," he said.

The field of space studies is known to throw curveballs. For instance, scientists last week said the latest evidence of water was found in cooler and darker areas facing away from the equator, while many had previously assumed that liquid water near the surface could only exist in hotter, sun-facing areas.

The discovery of evidence of liquid water on Mars boosts astrobiology.

And while they may be 'pretty convinced' i have no remaining doubts and neither should you!

OK, so what is the difference in temperature between near the South pole (around 80º, for example) during the South hemisphere's Summer and a place around 45º North during the North hemisphere Summer?

Why do you not tell us.

Stellar

[edit on 27-5-2007 by StellarX]

Originally posted by StellarX

And what other evidence do we have for pools of standing water?

Cross-lamination patterns in a rock called
"Last Chance" required flowing water at
Mars' surface, according to the Mars
Exploration Rover team. Inset: Black lines
trace cross-laminations, in magnified
images taken by Opportunity (at yellow
arrows). Blue lines show boundaries
where deposition may have halted between
crossbedded sets. Red arrows indicate
other possible crossbedding in the rock.

source