if humans and aliens evolved independently, why same characteristics?

Well taken that we can clone humans and sheep and such. I would hate to discount that fact that we weren't pre-programed with this knowledge from a source that had the intention of knowing that one day we would reach a point that we could base our science on the advancement of self creation. Imitation as said is the highest form of flattery. I some times think that we are just part of an evolutionary step in this form as sort of pre-school for next step.

Originally posted by tezzajw
...However, I don't think that spiders, turtles or crocodiles are going to be colonising other planets or star systems in the future, right? They're limited to living on the rock where they are, unless they get transported by us.

Our form and function makes us the most dominant species, albeit, with the most genocidal bent as well.

I'm not at all surprised that aliens may have similar physical characteristics to us. It seems like intelligence favours this optimised form. Why would nature propogate an inefficient system?

Well, we don't know that. When humans did not exist, or were lower down the food chain, there seems to have existed along side the dinosaurs, insects of much larger size than what we see today, crocodiles of much larger size, turtles of much larger size...you get the idea. My brother and I have always talked about the idea that, what if spiders or maybe even dragonflies were our size. We would be insect food, no doubt. They are much stronger, much faster, much more hungry than us. Their physical body has the advantage even if they are not our size. But let's think of what we really used to be. At certain times of our evolutionary history, we were the hunted, we were the prey. Early humans had to fight off predators of much larger size, most would have been mammals. It seems that our advantage did not come necessarily from our physical composition, our development of hunting and tools, but form the development of complex cognitive abilities such as problem solving, wits, and social skills. Our brain structure had to change, and develop something more than just survival instincts. This is what seems to give us our advantage. Evidence points that only until about 50 thousand years ago, it is that we start to see this complex cognitive ability start to develop.

Hey Undo,

Maybe we are from another planet, and we have just forgotten our history or simply never learned it. But, I would like to think that the missing link, is the wrong place to look at if we are looking for our origins. Evolution was not as direct, one after the other, as we (well, I) learned in school. Genome research suggests that traits and characteristics appeared and disappeared from time to time. This makes the whole linear descendant to descendant idea kind of flawed. For all we know, there could have been hominids that reached modern day human status way before our direct ancestors. The idea that we come from another planet is good, but what if our genes were manipulated by an extraterrestrial force as others suggest some time in our history. What if this manipulation occurred about 50 years ago when it seems our ancestors started to develop complex cognitive abilities?

Originally posted by yuwing
Hi, i'm a new user on the board. I'll save the introduction... and get on with my question.

From pictures and other sources - there's a general understanding that aliens (no matter what race) have similar charactersitics as humans


[edit on 4-4-2007 by yuwing]

What you had said could only be true if extraterrestrials and humans were entirely different from one another.

The truth of the matter is that humans are not entirely the true inhabitants of this planets. Then again since life can easily migrate by via meteorites, it is hard to say if any life truly came from the planet it self.

It will be hard for the majority of you to grasp so bear with it, while I explain the origin of man. The true origin of man can best be explained outside of the mainstream ideas. Most of us follow the principles of evolution to best confirm the existence of human beings as they are now. But... try to understand one thing. A lot of animals eat the same food we do, live in similar environment we did, and had ancestors that went through similar evolutionary patterns to that of our own. Then why do we not have minotaurs, lizardfolk, cat people, were-wolves, bat people, bird people, and gnolls walking amongst us? If you study the current evolution of animals you can clearly see the increase in brain capacity in animals across the epochs. So why aren't they as smart as us? Well I guess with that question you are figuring that they probably are as smart as us, but their brains work in a different manner. The truth of the matter is that their brains do work in a different manner, since our brains are much more developed than their's. We are miliions or even billions of years ahead of them in terms of evolution. We often enough don't agree to this factor, but all of us like it or not subconsciously know it. We know it, because it is true whether we can prove it or not. So believe me, it is true.

Now you might be asking, "Well gosh if we are so advance then how did we evolve so quickly?" The truth of the matter is that we didn't evolve so quickly, we were already there from the start and evolved slowly from then on. That factor probably confused you, because you are probably thinking well where did we start or differ from the other animals since we all have common ancestors, right? Wrong. We don't have common ancestors. I know most people aren't the sort to agree with religious text made by human beings, but we really aren't the same as our "Earthly brothers."

Human beings are very special. We have a gifted intellect well beyond our time on Earth to be able to build massive structures, deadly weapons of mass destruction, and even travel into outerspace. A gift extremely uncommon amongst the other animals, which all share together many similar unique traits. Strange now isn't it that our only similarlity with our closest relative is our DNA. We don't have the same structure as the chimp nor any other animal. But the large apes do have a similar structure though they are distantly related to each other. This probably sounds like a lot of rubbish to you, but it is a factual observation and truth. Humans are too unique to have completely originate from this primitive planet. Of course there is no proof to indicate that more than one intelligent being evolves from the same planet, but given the circumstances and unique details. One must speculate why there isn't other intelligent beings from THIS planet.

Anyways I have less than 500 words so let me rap this up quickly and get to the point.

Humans are crossbreed of an ape like ancestor and a super ancient, intelligent race of beings that call themselves "Zhori."

All human traits of physical, psychological, and mental uniqueness are a mixture of the Zhori and the ape-man ancestor.

We resemble the Zhori more, because if you read in the bible it'll tell you why. Yes the bible was made by man, but it is full of history regardless of the religion.



[edit on 5-4-2007 by Zhayne]

Originally posted by Zhayne
Human beings are very special. We have a gifted intellect well beyond our time on Earth to be able to build massive structures, deadly weapons of mass destruction, and even travel into outerspace. A gift extremely uncommon amongst the other animals...

This contention seems to be based on your belief that homo sapiens actually is an exceptionally well-developed and "intelligent" species. But isn't the measure of intelligence ultimately and inextricably bound to the ability to survive in balance with one's environment?

While untold millions of species have come and gone during the course of Earth's natural history, the most stable, long-lived and successful populations were (and are) those that derived their sustenance from their respective environments without compromising the natural balance. I hesitate to use the New Age terminology "in harmony with Nature," but that's essentially what distinguishes survivors from those in the bone orchard.

And then there are humans, who have not proven themselves particularly successful in a survival sense, yet who are convinced that their neural configuration is the most wonderful and complex bucket of goo in Nature. However, our track record does not support our claim to intelligence. As a species, we rely on thoroughly exhausting our natural resources — in many cases destroying the environment beyond recovery — and moving on to exploit fresh fields, which are likewise abandoned once we have totally consumed their natural resources.

This behavior does not seem in keeping with that of other stable, long-lived and successful species of planet Earth. Mankind has not the foggiest idea of maintaining a balance with his environment, nor of ensuring his own survival into perpetuity. The Natural world seems able to do this without even thinking about it.

Which is why I think and believe that Mankind is a particularly nasty mutation of hominid with an oversized tumor of neural tissue, a self-destructive retard species which does not and cannot operate in balance with its environment. I'm saying that we are biological anomalies in the natural world, and that we only consider ourselves unique among Earth's species because we are utterly isolated from Nature and are incapable of functioning as the truly successful species do.

We are the freaks.

And we alone are the measure of our own intelligence. What we consider "intelligence" probably has nothing to do with otherworldly thought processes. Look around the natural world, look around the Earth — here are millions of opportunities for us to practice communicating with other species, whose thought processes may conceivably be analogous to extraterrestrial thinking. Yet how do we communicate with other intelligent species on this planet? We strap magnetic mines to their backs and train them to blow up enemy ships.

I'm convinced that, from Nature's perspective, we are horribly, horribly defective creatures — but, in Nature's plan, we are doing what all defective species do, given time. We are headed for extinction, after scarcely a few million years of dominion of Earth; unless, of course, we suddenly evolve into another species that can survive on a plot of ground without sucking the life out of it. Fat chance.

I find some cold consolation in thinking that, following our extinction, the ants, cockroaches and worms will resume their steady and stable administration of the planet, without even wondering about that biological hiccup that was humanity. So much for human intelligence, whatever that was.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 4/6/2007 by Doc Velocity]

But isn't the measure of intelligence ultimately and inextricably bound to the ability to survive in balance with one's environment?

No. This is only a small part of the picture. If carried to its conclusion, no one survives! The human element, the part that isn't relying on brute force and survival of the fittest scenarios to solve every small problem in their lives.. you know, the part that cares and sacrifices and forgives? That's the mark of intelligence. It isn't about who carries the biggest stick, believe it or not. I know it might seem that way, but there's honestly a reason you have a conscience that isn't related at all to animal survival instincts.

Originally posted by undo
If carried to its conclusion, no one survives! The human element, the part that isn't relying on brute force and survival of the fittest scenarios to solve every small problem in their lives.. you know, the part that cares and sacrifices and forgives? That's the mark of intelligence. It isn't about who carries the biggest stick, believe it or not. I know it might seem that way, but there's honestly a reason you have a conscience that isn't related at all to animal survival instincts.

Spoken like a true human, peering from a cozy window at the cruel, cold world outside. Yes, I understand your allusions to the divine nature of the human spirit, forgiveness, compassion and all that; but these are only human formulas for interaction with other humans in our synthetic and unnatural society — formulas conceived by our defective and eminently fallible human intelligence.

In the natural world, where diverse species rise and fall over the ages without once forgiving one another or praying to God, there are lessons to be learned in long, long term survival. These are the lessons that hone and polish behavior toward balance within the environment — to ignore or disdain Nature's design makes us something less than animals.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by undo
If carried to its conclusion, no one survives! The human element, the part that isn't relying on brute force and survival of the fittest scenarios to solve every small problem in their lives.. you know, the part that cares and sacrifices and forgives? That's the mark of intelligence. It isn't about who carries the biggest stick, believe it or not. I know it might seem that way, but there's honestly a reason you have a conscience that isn't related at all to animal survival instincts.

Spoken like a true human, peering from a cozy window at the cruel, cold world outside. Yes, I understand your allusions to the divine nature of the human spirit, forgiveness, compassion and all that; but these are only human formulas for interaction with other humans in our synthetic and unnatural society — formulas conceived by our defective and eminently fallible human intelligence.

In the natural world, where diverse species rise and fall over the ages without once forgiving one another or praying to God, there are lessons to be learned in long, long term survival. These are the lessons that hone and polish behavior toward balance within the environment — to ignore or disdain Nature's design makes us something less than animals.

— Doc Velocity

Well that's the point, isn't it? you mentioned the word balance, but the balance is always tipped to the side of survival, at the cost of your humanity. That type of thinking is the foundation for euthanasia and concepts like killing off 65% of the world's population so the remaining 35% can live well. Those are not acceptable balancing acts.

We are the most dominant species here on this planet. The environment favors or design I guess, however who's to say that if we were colonizing other planets and had some hitchhiker creatures on our spacecraft that those species would evolve into intelligence greater than ourselves in less time?!

It's like the dinosaurs and the asteroid that killed em off. Without that asteroid possible we would not be here typing on a keyboard on a forum called ATS?

Oh and I thought I'd reply to this as well:

Spoken like a true human, peering from a cozy window at the cruel, cold world outside.

Would you believe I've had a hard life? And that the cruel, cold world is something I've been intimately familar with and had to make choices I wasn't exactly happy about, but did anyway, because the cost would've been to my humanity and my conscience? Such as being incredibly poor and hungry and finding an entire bag of groceries with juicy steaks sticking out of the top of it, and still turning it back in at the store for its rightful owner? Not because I'm some saintly person either, but because I wasn't willing to sacrifice the one for the other. If it was your bag of groceries, you'd be glad, I'm sure.

I realize its not the most popular way of approaching life's problems but neither is pushing the little old lady out of the food stamp line so you can get back home in time to watch Girls Gone Wild. Sorry, couldn't resist. Anyway, if we are to make any headway on topics related to survival of the fittest, we first have to decide what personal values are worth surviving with. surely it can't be dog eat dog. balance, yes, but not at the expense of what makes you human.

Originally posted by undo
you mentioned the word balance, but the balance is always tipped to the side of survival, at the cost of your humanity. That type of thinking is the foundation for euthanasia and concepts like killing off 65% of the world's population so the remaining 35% can live well. Those are not acceptable balancing acts.

Neither is pushing this planet's finite resources beyond their carrying capacities, which is what we're doing now. When I speak of "balance," I'm not talking about clubbing the homeless and welfare recipients and little children in Ethiopia like seal cubs so that I can eat a raw t-bone steak — I'm speaking of balance within the environment (i.e. not raping and destroying our resources in our oh-so-divine race to overpopulate this planet).

In the end, Nature's balancing act won't be ours to judge as "acceptable" or "unacceptable"... We're not in charge of this planet, let's not forget. It's not up to us to determine which way Nature will turn, whether in our favor or otherwise. But I can tell you this — when it does turn, we'll receive a crash course in Jungle Law, under which compassion and forgiveness are luxuries the human species can ill afford.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 4/6/2007 by Doc Velocity]

Hats off to the poster who asked this question. It exposes so many important issues. If you do look at the vast majority of abduction stories and supposed military-alien encounters etc., the aliens do appear bipedal and similar in general appearance to humans. Moreover the internet stories suggest the aliens even have dna and in some cases can interbreed with humans.

If we assume even a small fraction of these stories are correct and that these 'aliens' do exist, it suggests either a common ancestry for intelligent life or, more plausibly an intelligent designer. (Though I admit the panspermia idea might work here. However even in our own biosphere we have outrageous diversity. Compare say a fungus to a mammal for example.)

I submit that in fact the 'aliens' are of terrestrial origin and probably predate our own species. In fact the Bible suggests at least two intelligent races on this planet that are both more intelligent and older than humans. They are the fallen angels (demons) and the reptillians. I am calling here the reptillians, the 'subtle' race that is referred to as the serpent, who subverted eve in the garden of eden. I believe that these reported alien interactions are in most cases a deception and of terrestrial origin.

From a Biblical perspective, this planet is deeply behind enemy lines. Any super human intelligent interaction with alien species is virtually guaranteed to be part of the satanic rebellion. I have no doubt that they are trying various genetic experiments and are interbreeding with humans. (Read about the nephilim in genesis.) This activity resulted in the deluge of noah. The next purging will be with the nuclear fires. I fear this time is not far off.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by undo
you mentioned the word balance, but the balance is always tipped to the side of survival, at the cost of your humanity. That type of thinking is the foundation for euthanasia and concepts like killing off 65% of the world's population so the remaining 35% can live well. Those are not acceptable balancing acts.

Neither is pushing this planet's finite resources beyond their carrying capacities, which is what we're doing now. When I speak of "balance," I'm not talking about clubbing the homeless and welfare recipients and little children in Ethiopia like seal cubs so that I can eat a raw t-bone steak — I'm speaking of balance within the environment (i.e. not raping and destroying our resources in our oh-so-divine race to overpopulate this planet).

In the end, Nature's balancing act won't be ours to judge as "acceptable" or "unacceptable"... We're not in charge of this planet, let's not forget. It's not up to us to determine which way Nature will turn, whether in our favor or otherwise. But I can tell you this — when it does turn, we'll receive a crash course in Jungle Law, under which compassion and forgiveness are luxuries the human species can ill afford.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 4/6/2007 by Doc Velocity]

Well Doc, I'm way ahead of you on that one. Well, maybe not waay ahead, but next to ya, or a step behind perhaps, depending on how well geared up you are for this potentiality.

my personal and researched opinion is that space in our neighborhood is already being cultivated for the elite. they are using up the resources on neighboring planetary bodies as we speak, to build colonies we are not invited to. i firmly believe this. they've even warned us, in advance, that the resources are ISRU (insitu resource utilization) only. they aren't planning on sending any of it back here. in fact, they don't plan on letting most of the people or the prodigy of the people, off this planet alive. we COULD expand to space colonies, but they don't want us to. they want to select out of the population, people who meet their criteria, based on their catalogue of acceptable features. and might i interject here that their list and your list, may not be the same and probably isn't.

meanwhile, they've kept up the charade of making it appear as if only some people are personally responsible for halting the progression of technology and alternative energy resources. do you have any idea (yeah you probably do!) of how many people, many of them christians, religious folks of various kinds, people of all walks of life and nationalities, have tried to get alternative energy for common usage on the table? why isn't it there? i can give you three guesses and the first two don't count!

this is all part of the same type of survival of the fittest scenario to which you refer, but the difference is, these people have no conscience left to sear. they are totally devoid of compassion for anyone that doesn't make their top forty. and you are just as likey to fall under that heading as anyone body else, based on god knows what stupid, nitnoid thing these elite people can suck out of the aether,thinking it's their own brilliance when more than likely it's some alien species that just wants us all forty feet under.

/off soap box, deep breath, blush, runs away

Originally posted by undo
Would you believe I've had a hard life? And that the cruel, cold world is something I've been intimately familar with and had to make choices I wasn't exactly happy about, but did anyway, because the cost would've been to my humanity and my conscience? Such as being incredibly poor and hungry and finding an entire bag of groceries with juicy steaks sticking out of the top of it, and still turning it back in at the store for its rightful owner? Not because I'm some saintly person either, but because I wasn't willing to sacrifice the one for the other..

I would believe that you think you've had a hard life, but you were far from starvation, I can tell you. In the throes of real starvation, a normally high-minded human being will metamorphose into another animal altogether — and I know this from the years that I spent homeless long ago. When it began, I was too high-minded to ask for charity, too noble to beg, and too dumb to realize that the free ride was over. By the time the ordeal ended, I was capturing and eating snakes, literally in the jungle. I would've torn into a grocery bag of red meat like a ravenous dog.

That's what starvation is like.

During that Hell, there was no question of my morals, no balancing act of quality vs quantity of life. Such preposterous and unproductive mind games were disengaged — that's how I came to understand full well the true priorities in Life, stripped of the luxuries of pride and high-minded pretention. And luxuries are what they surely are.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by yuwing
Hi, i'm a new user on the board. I'll save the introduction... and get on with my question.

From pictures and other sources - there's a general understanding that aliens (no matter what race) have similar charactersitics as humans

we all have 1 head, 2 eyes, 4 limbs (2 arms, 2 legs), fingers, a mouth, 2 ears, 2 nostrils. we walk on 2 feet and we stand up straight.

is this a coincidence?
I'm a life science student at the university of ____ and have some background in genetics. I find it very weird that even though humans and aliens evolved independently of each other in 2 different planets (or assumed), we have VERY similar characteristics.

I have discussed this with a friend who's also interested in this sort of thing and we came up with this:
1) the humanoid shape is "ideal" for intelligent beings
2) the aliens catalyzed (took part in) the evolution of humans

my friend said that considering the developmental evolution achieved w/in the (estimated) 2 mil yrs of existence of humans, it sounds rather impossible on an evolutionary scale (for pre-humans to develop to the present humans)

please discuss.

[edit on 4-4-2007 by yuwing]

It's a point I bring up myself a lot
As for 1. the ideal shape.. not really..the ideal shape would depend on the environment.

As for 2. wel if you take a look at the theories around ancient sumerian (amongst others) texts and are open to the possibility of alternate history we might look alike because the anunnaki made us in their image as it were (sound familiar?)

Another thing I guess is simply limited imagination. we know 1 planet with life and we know 1 species of our level or above; us.
Also I think we don't have a lot of real evidence, the "market" as it were is overflowing with fakes and such.
e.g. the guy (forgot the name atm. it seems) who started the ufo "rage" with his sighting of 9(?) flying "discs".
His account actually reported crescent shaped flying objects.. crescent soon became discs in some headlines.. and now everyone is seeing discs...

(You'd think if they were real craft we would have kept seeing crescent flying wings instead of discs despite the headlines, no?)

Originally posted by Doc Velocity


During that Hell, there was no question of my morals, no balancing act of quality vs quantity of life. Such preposterous and unproductive mind games were disengaged — that's how I came to understand full well the true priorities in Life, stripped of the luxuries of pride and high-minded pretention. And luxuries are what they surely are.

— Doc Velocity

The human mind is capable of innovation. i innovated. i found a way to raise enough money to buy enough food to survive for one day, without having to resort to crime or thievery. and repeated it as many times as necessary. i collected recyclable cans, found a machine that paid by the pound, rinse wash repeat. usually didn't pay enough to buy more than a single food item, but it was better than nothing. it was tough going, dirty, had to dig through garbage cans in parks and such. worked for a whole day for a loaf of bread (for my family of three, btw. oh did i mention, i didn't have just me to worry about?). split a dairy queen ice cream cone, three ways, that i bought with a free coupon i found laying on the ground and that's all we had to eat for that day.

i also died at one point, but would do it all over again, if it was a choice between compromising my conscience and survival. i don't believe you would've resorted to crime to survive. i really don't. i think most people are inherently, too conscientious about that kinda thing and will find alternatives, not just alternatives to dying, but alternatives to dying with a boat load of guilty conscience onboard.

Originally posted by undo
this is all part of the same type of survival of the fittest scenario to which you refer, but the difference is, these people have no conscience left to sear. they are totally devoid of compassion for anyone that doesn't make their top forty. and you are just as likey to fall under that heading as anyone body else, based on god knows what stupid, nitnoid thing these elite people can suck out of the aether,thinking it's their own brilliance when more than likely it's some alien species that just wants us all forty feet under.

In which case we have a choice — remain high-minded and righteous as they shovel dirt into our faces, or we turn the tables on them, fight them on their own terms. At which point we're right back to survival of the fittest, and the weak shall perish from the Earth.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

In which case we have a choice — remain high-minded and righteous as they shovel dirt into our faces, or we turn the tables on them, fight them on their own terms. At which point we're right back to survival of the fittest, and the weak shall perish from the Earth.

— Doc Velocity

Not gonna fight on terms that would make the end result a life of living with people who don't care about each other. There's true strength in weakness, if false strength is devoid of human compassion and consideration, etc.

[edit on 6-4-2007 by undo]

reply to post by silk101


Youv'e hit the nail on the head my friend. The 3-4 foot aliens that most commonly interact with humans (known as the 'greys' for their colour) cannot reproduce which is why the use cloning, And which is why they are abducting Humans to try to create a hybrid than can reproduce on it's own. Im not sure if they have done this yet, but i know they can defiantly reproduce with humans on their own.