UFO: Antigravity or Coandă Effect man made saucers or aircrafts?

Hi Brotherthebig.

I think your presentation revolves around two questions.

Firstly. Did the luftwaffe have the technical ability to produce flying discs ?
The answer to that in my opinion is an unequivical yes.

Secondly. If the answer to the first question is yes, then what happened to that knowledge ?

Within the enourmous body of information you have presented, I believe you have already provided the answers. But i think its important to understand that the answer to the later question is in two parts.

The progression from piston engines to jet technology and then onto exotic propulsion systems such as the Coanda effect is clearly demonstrated within your work. That knowledge was without a doubt aquired by the Allies at the end of the war through operations such as project Paperclip. This subsequently led directly to Stealth technology and the NASA space program.

However some of the material you have included is steeped in Nazi revisionist history. I think it's incredibly important when analysing the broad scope of the materials you have supplied, to start with the exceptional work detailed in the Summerhayes/ Beeching document from the Scott Polar reasearch institute at Cambridge University in the UK. This will give the reader an academic insight into the varasity of the claims that the Nazi regime lived on after the cesation of hostilities.

It is my conviction that the Nazi warmachine was well and truly obliterated by the Allies, and there were no last stands made by the 3rd Riech in the frozen wastes of the Antartic. This is proffesionally detailed in the Summerhill/Beeching research paper.

I applaud your work, and wish you every success with your research.

All the best.
Seeker PI.

Summerhayes/Beeching Research paper.

Nice work and very interesting.
Will take a little to check all of the external links.

Originally posted by Zorgon
landoflegends.us...
landoflegends.us...

I'm seeing cgi? and very bad cgi.. like what my animations look like lol.
Also the tracking accuracy of the cameraman, keeping it exactly in the center, is astounding.



[edit on 6-4-2007 by David2012]

Ok, this is going to take some time to get through. Ill try and get back when I finish sifting through it all. Good work by the way.

-fm

Hi,

Thank you for all your posts and observations, I will try to go post by post and make a comment, and to add something more if possible. Also thanks for the U2U and e-mails, but related to threads or posts please discuss in ATS.

Hi Seeker PI,

Originally posted by Seeker PI
I'am especially interested in the Nazi Ufo question. I thought I'd pretty much seen all there was to see, but you have proved me wrong.

Could I ask you how long the presentation took to to put together ?

About the Nazi UFO do you have any other references or links?

I had taken around 2/3 days in spare time to organize all the information and to verify the links, but I had previously collected the information to a file. Some information was from a few years ago but the videos are recent, also I tried to give an ordered flow to the information that appears not to be related, and I used some ideas for further research from disperse threads (that I refer) from ATS.

Originally posted by Seeker PI
Firstly. Did the luftwaffe have the technical ability to produce flying discs ?
The answer to that in my opinion is an unequivical yes.

Secondly. If the answer to the first question is yes, then what happened to that knowledge ?

I agree with you, your 2 questions define the subject we are trying to analyze in this thread. On the firsts one, besides the Germans, some research was done on saucer technology before the WWII, and I am trying to find information on the Japan, USA and USSR saucer projects, because is clear that the Luftwaffe was working on real saucers and other advanced planes.

About the second question, also I agree that Summerhayes/Beeching Research paper is a very good work. I just need a few more time to go trough all the paper, and to cross connect to some information in Nick Cook’s book and the books from Venik's Aviation e-book library. And I remain with the following thoughts/questions:
. the Germans on WWI collaborated with the Japanese for aviation projects and technology, but I could not find any reference or information about Japanese saucers, anyone has some references?
. related to jet and rocket technology some later Japanese models are based on technology that was given by the Germans during WWII, could that be applied to saucer technology?
. many Japanese submarines had been sank by the British/USA warships and planes, but some went to Japan with German technology, could any more submarines be involved and where is the big number of U-boats that are reported has “missing” in the end of WWII?
. the Germans went to Antarctica, what about the Japanese?
. many Germans after WWII when to Argentina, Tierra del Fuego is near Antarctica and many settle in Patagonia (a place, some say that Hitler rested there and died with old age) and others went to some South America countries
. 2 presidents from 2 countries in South America, are from Japanese and German origin, Alberto Fujimori former president of Peru and Néstor Kirchner the actual president of Argentina and former president of Patagonia province, Kirchner maybe from Swiss origin need to be checked.

Hitler at old age?

That could be only coincidences, but I think it deserves a double check. Has anyone more information on the Germany-Japan-Antarctica-Argentina WWII and pos-WWII connection?

Thank you,

brotherthebig.



[edit on 11-4-2007 by brotherthebig]

Over the years I've come to consider Roswell and Axis technology as being possibly one of same thing. I believe it is not a coincidence that modern day ufology starts immediately after the war with the Roswell incident, and the first whispers of Nazi Flying Discs come into being.

The Germans had been shipping jet propulsion Tech to Japan towards the end of the war.

BAIKA

"In 1943, an Argus pulse jet engine was shipped to Japan by German submarine. The Aeronautical Institute of Tokyo Imperial University and the Kawanishi Aircraft Company conducted a joint study of the feasibility of mounting a similar engine on a piloted plane. The resulting design was based on the Fieseler Fi-103 Reichenberg (Fi103R, a piloted V-1), and was named Baika ("ume blossom")."

Two Gotha Go 229 where also found in Japan at the end of hostilities ( I'll try to find a link), thus demonstrating that there were exchanges in ideas going on between Japan and Germany.

Gotha Go 229

Personaly I think there are one of two possibilities to account for Roswell.
Firstly what Brassel found on his ranch was a Go 229 trainer, piloted by a Japanese two man crew. Or more likely it was a test run of the Japanese Fugu project. again piloted by Japanese crew.

FUGU

What I find compelling about this is the introduction of the Extraterrestrial Greys. Could they have been no more than small japanese pilots who's facial features had been swollen and distorted by crash impact, and then the story added to over the years to produce the ET experience ? Also the crash debri would have been in keeping with the official debunking story.

What I'am trying to point to, is although I don't believe in the "Lost Battalion" hypothesis, I'am willing to accept that Senior Nazi officials did escape to South America, and that those who hunted them did think that they could also have taken technologies with them for a a future resurgence of the 3rd Riech. These considerations have been distorted over time for various political and sometimes innocent reasons. But the truth of the matter is that there is not one shred of bonified evidence for the existance of the infamous VRIL, which had they existed would surely account for much of the early UFO sightings.

So as much as I don't wont to. I'll stick to the more likely events detailed above. The whole Antartic scenario in my opinion, is no more than a type of Germanic Arthurian legend.

Keep up the search my friend, I'am sure there is still much hidden from us.



[edit on 12-4-2007 by Seeker PI]

Hi,

I will go now trough SKUNK2 post, but before I just would like to say thanks to Seeker PI, great stuff and I will analyze later in detail.

As zorgon show us, the 2 PDFs are very helpful. I only add NASA-Status of "Warp Drive", and as stated:

Originally posted by zorgon
Your tax dollars at work... and this is just the public released stuff

Also I could not forget a reference to the Portuguese João Magueijo ho is working on Variable Speed of Light theory. The NEC experiments, appears to demonstrate that Magueijo was right from the begin.

I remember to read about an experiment to attest Einstein’s Relativity Theory, they placed an atomic clock on a fast plane (600 mph) and they measure this clock against a clock on the ground, and according to Relativity Theory if that was correct a slight difference will show that the clock on the plane should be “younger” than the clock on the ground, and that was the case, so you could see that this is a small time travel (the difference was something around a few billionths of a second).

I googled and I found this reference, I could not remember but was the Hafele-Keating experiment.

I will try to summarize in simple words and based on Stephen Hawking's work, is book The Universe in a Nutshell is simply marvelous, more or less an updated version of Einstein’s and Leopold Infeld book “The Evolution of Physics: The Growth of Ideas from Early Concepts to Relativity and Quanta”, one of my firsts books, great!

The Schrödinger equation defines the relation between the position and the speed of a particle, and obeys to the Heisenberg’s Uncertainty principle. In terms of General Relativity time is curve and the 2 diverse solutions from Schwarzschild and Gödel lead directly to Black Holes and Time Travel.

Maths of time travel could go to something that is beyond my humble knowledge,


but a simple explanation his here.

More references:
. Einstein's online book Relativity - The Special and General Theory
. Hawking's lectures

A good modern approach is in the paper Quantum Theory Looks at Time Travel from Karl Svozil.

Karl’s paper conclusion (part)


Time Travel (part 1)

Other parts in You Tube.

But all that do not shows if the Pravda article is genuine, someone has any other references to the same story?

I think that in the end we simply could not conclude that time travel is impossible.

brotherthebig.

[edit on 13-4-2007 by brotherthebig]

Okay so far I am only on post two checking all the links and downloading them...
But while I am catching up, ponder the implications of this...

"Look Ma, No Ailerons!!!

Somewhere over the Nevada Desert...


Revolutionary Hypersonic Aerospace Vehicles

And remember that flexible metal that they found at Roswell? the stuff that always returned to shape?



Now I wonder where NASA got THAT idea from...

Buck Rodgers, Watch Out!

AFRL tests flexible wing technology

Here is the model of the Flex Wing plane X-48b

HAMPTON, Va., May 04, 2006 — In cooperation with NASA and the U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory, the Phantom Works organization of Boeing [NYSE: BA] is taking another step toward exploring and validating the structural, aerodynamic and operational advantages of a futuristic aircraft design called the blended wing body, or BWB. Two high-fidelity, 21-foot wingspan prototypes of the BWB concept have been designed and produced for wind tunnel and flight testing this year. The Air Force has designated the vehicles as the "X-48B," based on its interest in the design’s potential as a flexible, long-range, high-capacity military aircraft.

Boeing Phantom Works to Lead Research on X-48B Blended Wing Body Concept

Anyone out there still believe that NASA is a public agency?


[edit on 15-4-2007 by zorgon]

Wing-Warping


Hi,

Just a quick comment on last the post, I will return for the others.

Zorgon, very good information! Wing-Warping is something that the Wright brothers already used, but for supersonic Mach 5 is something fantastic.

Audio (requires RealPlayer).

The X-48B is a Blended Wing Body plane, but for what I know is not flexible like the Wing-Warping, but maybe they will combine the 2 concepts in a new prototype.

Hi TheBorg, any more on the antarctica beam images post by Zorgon?

Has someone a video about Wing-Warping test planes?

brothetthebig.

U.S. Air Force's Nuclear Flying Saucer
Popular Mechanics

The official designation for America's nuclear flying saucer was the Lenticular Reentry Vehicle (LRV). It was designed by engineers at the Los Angeles Division of North American Aviation, under a contract with the U.S. Air Force. The project was managed out of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, in Dayton, Ohio, where German engineers who had worked on rocket plane and flying disc technology had been resettled.

The LRV escaped public scrutiny because it was hidden away as one of the Pentagon's so-called "black budget" items—that is, a secret project that is incorporated into some piece of nonclassified work. On Dec. 12, 1962, security officers at Wright-Patterson classified the LRV as secret because: "It describes an offensive weapon system." The project remained classified until May 1999, when a congressionally mandated review of old documents changed the project's status as a government secret, downgrading it to public information.

The Department of Defense did, however, successfully seek to have the document's distribution restricted to defense contractors. PM obtained its copy as the result of a Freedom of Information Act request.

Source

Hi,

The LRV has a connection to the Germany’s (WWII) Saucers and advanced planes and earlier nuclear propulsion tests – Pluto.


Some more threads about the LRV and associated:
. www.abovetopsecret.com...
. www.abovetopsecret.com...
. www.abovetopsecret.com...
. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks,

brotherthebig.

Hi,

About the Pravda article, for the moment is inconclusive, but here are more sources:
. www.rumormillnews.com...
. www.abovetopsecret.com...
. www.abovetopsecret.com...
. www.abovetopsecret.com...
. www.freerepublic.com...
. www2b.abc.net.au...

Discovery - First Time Machine

Anyone with a confirmation of hoax?

brothethebig.

Here is a very good description of the Avro Project...

The Avro Canada VZ-9AV "Avrocar" designed by company Chief Designer John Frost was a true flying saucer that was produced for the U.S.A.F. and U.S. Army in the period1958-1959. In earlier research, Frost had discovered the "Coanda Effect" provided a powerful ground cushion envisioned as being the basis for a vehicle that could have both have VTOL (vertical take-off and landing) capabilities and could still operate as a high-performance aircraft.

www.avrocar.com...

The Avro project was quite definitely a Coanda effect "saucer" design.

The Coanda effect is quite valid and works on all fluids, air, water AND plasma, which is the key to actual practical saucer applications. Both the AFRL and LANL have been working on plasma technology for decades, as have contractors like Lockheed...

What makes you think they haven't got anywhere? LOL

As to the Coanda effect craft being a :dead issue", why is the US Navy publishing documents about it in 2000? Hmmm?

The Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) has successfully simulated the Coanda Effect....PDF

PDF File www.fluent.com...

And to those that believe the technology that powered the Avro idea doesn't work... have a look at these two test videos from JLN Labs.

Windows Media films...

Coanda Effect UAV - JLN Labs Demo Video Test Flight #1

landoflegends.us...

Coanda Effect UAV - JLN Labs Demo Video Test Flight #2

landoflegends.us...

There is also a British company working on the same thing GFS Products

www.gfsprojects.co.uk...

They make great surveillance craft...

[edit on 18-4-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by brotherthebig
About the Pravda article...
Anyone with a confirmation of hoax?

LOL Pravda is using Dr Who as an example? Thats cool LOL but it doesn't help their credibility much

I don't know about Pravda, but here is an interesting story I came across..

Physicist needs $20,000 for time-travel experiment
Without funding, lab space will be lost

By TOM PAULSON
P-I REPORTER

The Seattle scientist who wants to test a controversial prediction from quantum theory that says light particles can go backward in time is, himself, running out of time...

project that aims to do a conceptually simple bench-top test for evidence of something Albert Einstein called "spooky action at a distance." The test involves using a crystal to split a photon, a light particle, into two reduced-energy photons that -- through careful manipulation -- Cramer thinks could reveal a flash of time traveling backward...

SOURCE and Rest of Story

Anyone out there ant to get in on the Ground Floor?
Tom Paulson can be reached at 206-448-8318 or [email protected]

[edit on 18-4-2007 by zorgon]

It is interesting that while mainstream scientists and ATS'ers argue about whether or not anit gravity exists, it seems toy makers just go ahead and do it...

Unfortunately I could not find a link to purchase one even on the company website... if anyone can find that please post it...

I WANT ONE



[edit on 18-4-2007 by zorgon]

Okay now while we are levitating rotating magnets... lets look at tossing in perpetual motion...




And here is one you can do at home...



Comments?

And just when you think its only magnetic fields that can produce anti gravity, along come the Tibetans who claim to be ale to levitate using certain frequencies of sound...

I seem to recall legends of the Egyptians levitating huge blocks by using sound waves...

Well it seems there may be more truth to that than meets the eye.... errr ears



Acoustic Levitation - Warning turn your speakers down...



Ultrasonic Levitation of Water... his one is cool!



Levitation = Anti Gravity

The Universe as You know it is about to Shatter

[edit on 18-4-2007 by zorgon]

And finally one more Piece of the Puzzle

First described by Townsen Brown in his electrogravitics theory and since then promoted by JL Naudin of JLN Labs where he freely gives instructions on how to build your own lifter...

Here are a couple videos about the lifter...

The first one is a clear explanation on how the effect works and how to make one... Its easy to understand...



The second one is in windows media format. The info and setup page is here...

www.gravityforum.com...

The video is linked to at the bottom of the page

Now if these demonstrations can be done by the average tinkerer (or high school science junkie) for a few dollars imagine what the government is working on with your tax dollars...

Here is one by some kids who came up with the idea to get their power supply from an old computer monitor... Now THAT is what I call innovative thinking!

Hey zorg:

What I'm more interested in is the concept of powered lift. What can they lift weight-wise, with those things? Is it possible, no, feasible, to lift a human in something like this? And if so, how big does it have to be?

Just a curious question or three.

TheBorg

Originally posted by TheBorg

What I'm more interested in is the concept of powered lift. What can they lift weight-wise, with those things?

Well I have seen one that lifted a mouse and didn't zap it in the process...

I am not sure this is the way to go for ship design though. I have heard it doesn't work in a vacumm, but only have that from one source so far and haven't read it yet...

The problem with this would be carrying a powerful enough source that didn't add significant weight. The concept is great, especially to demonstrate that gravity avoidance may not be so difficult afterall, but I would go with plasma drives...

I have posted this in another thread but its relevant here now..

Now MIT has some interesting work on Levitated Dipole Fushion Reactors... funny thing is they are designed to run on Helium 3... Now where do you suppose they would get THAT from?

So I doubt the lifter will get you back to the Collective... Unless some of that off world tech you guys errrm absorb... would help us find a power source...

It is possible though that we don't fully understand the effect and may find a break through...

The MIT Levitated Dipole...



More Info

The Searl Genertor... the first one he made went through the roof of his shop and kept on going...









More Info

Looks like subject matter for a science project. Too bad I'm so poor that I can't afford the magnets that I'd need to do it.

If I remember correctly, the concept of lift with these lifters is that it excites the particles in the area, causing the air in the vicinity to begin moving in a convective manner; in other words, pulling the air down towards the ground, causing the lifter to lift. This would help to explain why the thing doesn't lift in a vacuum, there's no air to lift it with.

Hope this is right.

TheBorg