Argentina Claims Falklands (again)

exactly when imperialism was made illegal that shouldve meant any land taken by imperialism should be forfeit

If thats the cause, we should of given our American colonies back to the natives then or he European Americans give it back. Thats fair then?

the native americans are still here im native american

and isnt that britains fault too anyway for sending us over here we just did what we could with what we were given

Originally posted by justanothergangster
the native americans are still here im native american

Not your land thou, is it?

Native Americans had an independent nation before the land was brought by the Union, and were moved into federal areas. You ancestors lived throughout the Americas before the Europeans came and divided up the land. You know that right?

So, if you feel land should be given back to its orginal people then Union should give back land to you native Americans.

The truth of the matter is they suspected there was oil off the coast in 1993. That was 13-14 years ago and no significant finds have been made nor do they export any oil according to the CIA fact book and Wiki.

Neither of which are credible sources. I posted a story (which was largely ignored) here about the Oil. Argentina has pulled out of the treaty signed back in the 90's. Britian is continuing it's oil exploration and it is speeding up.

If you look at South America, you will notice that every single country, but one, speaks Spanish. Brasil is the only one that doesn't, as they speak Portuguese. The reason for this, is that back in the day, when Spain and Portugal were the worlds greatest sailors and explorers, while the Brits were floundering about, Spain and Portugal were complaining about who controlled what.

Utter rubbish. Floundering about? Dude, your chronology is so far out of wack I can't believe it and your "fact's" are just wrong. Britian has had a fine sailing tradition since at least the 16th century and the worlds oldest standing Navy founded since before the Norman conquest.

During the time the Spanish and Portugese were colonising (and massacreing) the Southern Continent, England and France were doing the North American continent AND harrassing the Spanish in the Caribbean.

The Pope, who was tired of their complaints and had a great deal of power at the time, stepped in, and drew a line on the map. He had had enough of their squabbles and declared that everything on this side of the line belonged to Spain, and everything on the other side belonged to Portugal. As part of Brasil was on the Portuguese side, they thus owned it. They also claimed the area that had previously been explored and colonized.

Mwooohahahahahaha..... Jeebus. Try reading.

The Treaty of Saragosa was an exclusive deal between 2 of Europes several major powers to divide the world between themselves. It was also instugated by the (Spanish Born) Pope Alexander VI under the "Bull Inter caetera".

This effectively cut out any other European power and gave Papal backing to only Spain and Portugal (from a Spanish Pope).

To consider this a valid claim on anything when it was mutually exclusive and benefical deal to only Spain and Portugal is ludicrous. It's like the US and the UK deciding to split up the world and just because the US is the worlds superpower, that makes it a "legal" claim? Don't be silly.

At this moment in time The Falklands became the sole property of Spain and there is no dispute about this.

Actually, yes there is.

The first settlement was French.

A second british settlement was then established.

Spain got iffy about these colonies when discovered as they had "a God given right" (by the Spanish Pope remember) to the land.

They did a deal with the French and booted the English out. We left a plaque asserting our claims in 1774. There was a brief spanish colony from 1774-1811, when they abandoned the colony, leaving another plaque.

So, as you can see, there never was a significant Spanish claim to these islands, bar a complete Papal stitch up (by the Spanish Pope) which favoured only Portugal and Spain.

British claims date from 1765 with the founding of Port Egmont. Spanish claims date from 1774.

Who was there first? The Dutch.

Who founded the first colony? The French

Who founded the longest established colony? The British

Who forcefully evicted the British? The Spanish

Who abandoned the islands? The Spanish

Who moved back in to EMPTY islands? The British

Who's claim is the earliest? The British

What nationality are the people who live and have lived there for over 150 years? British.

Seem's pretty bloody well clear cut to me.

Pllluussss....

There is a big Union Jack on the Island, so thats a clue.

Originally posted by infinite
Pllluussss....

There is a big Union Jack on the Island, so thats a clue.

Indeed, plus the company of Royal Marines (bear in mind that 81 RM and the islander's held the argies at bay for several hours in `82, inflicting casualties and damaging an Argie Frigate with an ATGM without taking a loss), the RAF Sq. and the Naval flottilla.

that would be cool but on the reservations were still allowed to have our own courts our own police (the department of indian affairs) and even though peyote is illegal in americe its legal on reservations cause its part of our culture i myself think things are better this way imean atleast this way it ended hundreds of years of tribal warfare......but at the very least south america should be profiting from the falkland islands the falklands mainly export to spain its just not right that the resources from south america arent helping south america

Originally posted by justanothergangster
but at the very least south america should be profiting from the falkland islands the falklands mainly export to spain its just not right that the resources from south america arent helping south america

What?

but at the very least south america should be profiting from the falkland islands the falklands mainly export to spain its just not right that the resources from south america arent helping south america

Sorry,
but Argentain rejected a joint share of oil and gas. We don't just export to Spain, its the EU (mainly the Netherlands, French, Germany,etc) and the United States too. Plus other allies throughout the Commonwealth.

Btw, Should North America resources profit go directly to South America to help combat poverty, etc? because its the United Kingdom should then so should North America.

ok but america is in north america and we trade with everyone

Originally posted by justanothergangster
ok but america is in north america and we trade with everyone

As does the UK. In actual fact, the US does not trade with everyone. They trade with less people than Europe, with all the sanctions you guys impose on anyone who looks at you funny.

Bottom line is the Falklands are British. We have been there the longest and everyone there is British.

Originally posted by Terapin
Britain is still desperately trying to hold on to the scraps of it's former empire. The islands should go back to their rightful owners, Argentina.

The rightful owners are the UK. So say we who settled them, so said the settlers, so say their decendants, who are, seeing as they were BORN there, the natives. It is their right to dictate the future of their lands, and they want to be British. And why wouldn't they? They ARE British. Geographically, maybe they are in South America, But that doesn't make them any less British than yours truly.

If you look at South America, you will notice that every single country, but one, speaks Spanish. Brasil is the only one that doesn't, as they speak Portuguese.

Er... funny that, I thought French Guiana spoke French (ironically), Suriname speaks Dutch, and Guyana speaks English.

Oh! And maybe its ALSO worth noting that French Guiana is still part of France...

OMG... MAYBE BRAZIL SHOULD LAY CLAIM TO FRENCH GUIANA!

WAR! WAR! BETWEEN FRANCE AND BRAZIL!!!!!!!

Originally posted by infinite
So, if you feel land should be given back to its orginal people then Union should give back land to you native Americans.

I do not want to start an argument here but as I understand it each time we took the land we also paid the tribes/native Americans for it. Granted some of the tactics used were not right but never the less we did buy the land from them unlike other countries (Russia) as an example who just invaded Poland etc and took it over.

The land was taken from Argentina and colonized, that's why British descendants live there. But England is thousands of miles away while the Falklands are just off the Argentinean coast. The same goes with French Guiana. Having been there, it's funny as there seem to be more descendants from south Asia than there are from France living there. The Brits gave back British Honduras, now Belize, as well as Hong Kong, and it is time to give back the Malavinas. We need another Ghandi to educate England again about the wrongness of Empirical ambitions.

Originally posted by Terapin
The land was taken from Argentina and colonized, that's why British descendants live there.

No, it wasn't.

Please read my above post. If you have ANY evidence that Argentina had possesion of the FI before the UK, I am pretty damn sure the UN would like to see it, let alone us here.

Originally posted by Terapin
But England is thousands of miles away while the Falklands are just off the Argentinean coast.

It's not "off the coast of Argentina". They lie over 300 miles away from Argentina. That's like claiming Amsterdam should be British....

Originally posted by Terapin
The Brits gave back British Honduras, now Belize, as well as Hong Kong, and it is time to give back the Malavinas.

Belize was never "given back". there was no one to "give it back" too. They obtained independance in 1981 but the UK still retains some "constitutional" right's, such as the Queen of Belize, aka, Queen Elizabeth 2, being Head of State. Also, the High Court in the UK is used by Belize as a final arbitor in some cases.

Hong Kong was always going to be given back. We had it on a 99 year lease from the Chinese.

Please, learn some facts before spouting un-truths.

Originally posted by Terapin
We need another Ghandi to educate England again about the wrongness of Empirical ambitions.

Empirical? As in data produced by experentation and observation? Would have thought that having "empirical" ambitions would be a good thing. Better than just theorising, anyway......

The Spanish government's claim was continued by Argentina after the latter's independence in 1816 and the independence war in 1817. The United Kingdom took control of the islands by force with the 1833 invasion of the Falkland Islands.

- From Wikipedia

Originally posted by Terapin

The Spanish government's claim was continued by Argentina after the latter's independence in 1816 and the independence war in 1817. The United Kingdom took control of the islands by force with the 1833 invasion of the Falkland Islands.

- From Wikipedia

Nice "snip" there.

The Spanish didn't have possesion until they evicted the British in 1774!

Go back and try again.

EDIT: I might add that between 1811-1826, the islands were uninhabited. The Spanish left and the Argies were only there for 7 years.

[edit on 3/4/07 by stumason]

NO actually it is you who have made the "snip"

In 1790, Britain officially ceded control of the islands to Spain, and renounced any and all colonial ambitions in South America, and its adjacent islands, as part of the Nootka Convention.

Spain had legal right to the area, which was passed on to Argentina as I stated earlier. Try again.