Make me believe in god aqain!

You're the same thing, you believe in a "God" creator and you think it is a man. You carry him around in your pocket and any one who hasn't met him you introduce him to them and begin converting.

You are the same as them, rotting and ruining innocent Existential minds from experiencing the Existence that they are.

You call one religious label bad and then go ahead and preach your group and its beliefs.

I'm not interested in monotheistic proselytism, I'm interested in the eternal that is me, and I'm not interested in "God" based bubble universe, I'm interested in the eternity that has vested its interests in me. I am interested in the interconnection of all of us, and it is interested in me because it is interconnnected.

11:11 means nothing except for an invention of the Human mind to keep track of time, time that isn't the true essence of Existence.

Stop trying to make yourselves feel better by clinging to the newest fashion trend, whether its actually clothing or it's some "spiritual" awakening through random numbers, cleanse your slate of all Gods and idols, and make yourselves feel better through making each other feel better. 11:11 doesn't make you feel better, you just feel special because it makes you a part of another group. It's irresponsible that you need some thing to remind you of how to act and that you place it on others, too. You know what I do when I see 11:11 on a clock? I look at my wife, laugh, and make jokes about spiritual awakening while making spooky noises... oooo! Spirituality doesn't Exist because you try and make it something beyond the realm of the physical, and beyond your selves, when only Nothing is, and yet it even is not.

As for believing in God, she doesn't have to, and she shouldn't, and you should leave her alone and let her experience a Godless Existence, because that is the way it is.

A true Christian is not a true Human, a true Human would not need to label its self any thing to be beyond its brothers and sisters of its planet, it would simply Exist; the way it is meant to be.

As long as there are those that label their selves and proclaim to be the followers of God's most holy and high laws, then there will be a war and blood on their hands, and effecting all of humanity negatively through self centered, myopic biased judgements

[edit on 14-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by runetang
your free-will, what makes a human different from all the other animals in the world.

Free will : What takes away all animal rights and animal free will in the world. You're just a clever animal. I see myself no different than the animals. They give me love, I give them love, and they can choose just as I can choose.

Christians are sick with the way that they treat the world and look at the world, but of course, that's because they are more special than any thing Existing, except for God... and that's because God is off in Heaven with his hand on the red button, waiting to destroy Existence and take his good Christian souls to heaven with him to play harmonics with the angels.

If you could step out side of your belief's for a moment and really look at it, it's extremely laughable and simultaneously discerning

[edit on 14-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

originally posted by L.O.V.E.
Stop trying to make yourselves feel better by clinging to the newest fashion trend, whether its actually clothing or it's some "spiritual" awakening through random numbers, cleanse your slate of all Gods and idols, and make yourselves feel better through making each other feel better. 11:11 doesn't make you feel better, you just feel special because it makes you a part of another group. It's irresponsible that you need some thing to remind you of how to act and that you place it on others, too. You know what I do when I see 11:11 on a clock? I look at my wife, laugh, and make jokes about spiritual awakening while making spooky noises... oooo! Spirituality doesn't Exist because you try and make it something beyond the realm of the physical, and beyond your selves, when only Nothing is, and yet it even is not.

Stop starting paragraphs with the word "stop"...
Stop telling people spirituallity doesn't exist outside the physical.
Stop looking at your wife and making jokes about spiritual awakening.
Stop saying cleanse yourself of believing in God.
Stop saying only nothing is.
Just stop all your existence nonsense.
Just stop all your extraterestial nonsense.
Just stop telling others how to think because it is the way you do.
Stop it.
Start trying to respect the original poster's topic.
I'm sorry, but just stop it.
You don't have the authority to tell other's to stop thinking and believing. (robotic response,,, I seek no authority,...)
Stop...

Originally posted by holidaystar1

Stop starting paragraphs with the word "stop"...

I will do as such if it is offending you, we all make mistakes, and it is not my intention to offend you, only expand your mind, but I will not cease the ability to freely think and excercise that thought, the thought that which is derived of Existence. You may call it non-sense, but that's only because non-sense makes sense of its self through a set of standardized "sensical" logic.

As for the topic, I see it says "Make me believe in God again!". So, respecting the topic and holiday star, I will gladly stop posting the nature of posts that have been posted by me

[edit on 14-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Stop trying to make yourselves feel better by clinging to the newest fashion trend,

That is what you said.

I dont know if you know, but christianity is not a newest fashion trend. Its been around longer than you, and will always be around longer than all of us.

You say there is no God and yet can you prove it. Free will, truest me to say that when anmals are in the worldest they still have free will.

The fact is you believe what you want Ill believe in reality and whats living. Free will. Sounds to me you just want to be free and do whatever you want, without realizeing God is watching. What are your bad habits I bet that if God is watching you would'nt want him to see your actions. Just to let you know Jesus came to forgive anything and everthing as long as the heart is pure. Life after death is a gamable and just becuase you dont want to be accoutable does'nt mean you should'nt at least find out if God is around.

Originally posted by slymattb
You say there is no God and yet can you prove it.

i have to keep pointing this out to you OVER and OVER again, the burden of proof falls on THOSE THAT CLAIM THE EXISTENCE OF SOMETHING


[qupte]
The fact is you believe what you want Ill believe in reality and whats living. Free will. Sounds to me you just want to be free and do whatever you want, without realizeing God is watching.


no, i just want a world that is guided by reason instead of superstition. i live a good life, i don't care if there is a deity watching me or not.

What are your bad habits I bet that if God is watching you would'nt want him to see your actions.

ohhh, the character attack on atheists...
that's where you were going

Just to let you know Jesus came to forgive anything and everthing as long as the heart is pure.

well, that's your hypothesis

Life after death is a gamable and just becuase you dont want to be accoutable does'nt mean you should'nt at least find out if God is around.

i want to be accountable while i'm on this planet. i've looked and i see no reason to believe in the existence of a deity.

I would like to share a story that my Dad tells. This happened during WW2 in the pacific. One of the plane had the following written across it's nose just ahead of the cockpit; "God grant that this plane will always return with her crew." One day they flew on a mission as normal, as time passed the plane was overdue and everyone figured that it had been shot down. Long after it should have returned the lookouts reported an incoming plane; it was flying on ground effect or barely off the ground or in this case water. When it crossed the beach it raised up and slid on to the runway landing gear still up. The fuel tanks were empty and the plane had been flying for at least 1/2 hour after it should have gone down due to lack of fuel; the plane itself was shot up badly. When they boarded the plane the crew was all dead; the medics determined that the radio operator had been the last to die and he indeed all the crew were still at their stations; there is no logical reason for that plane to have brought her crew home. The only reason I can see is that God is real and their final prayer was answered.

Truthseeker I hope this helps.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i have to keep pointing this out to you OVER and OVER again, the burden of proof falls on THOSE THAT CLAIM THE EXISTENCE OF SOMETHING

Not for all of us. For many of us, the burden of proof falls to us to validate our own beliefs. For some of us, we feel we have to prove what we believe to ourselves to be intellectually honest, and, for some of us, not understanding something isn't strong enough proof that it's not true.

For many of us, that is why we came to ATS -- we know something is not right with the world, but we cannot place our finger on it. Something is askew, it isn't the way our heart tells us it should be, and because of that, we try to understand by reading about the illuminati, aliens, and, yes, even God. Hoping that if we get that one piece of information, everything will fall into place, and we'll finally understand what that feeling is that leaves us unsettled when we honestly look at the world. What we don't all realize is that that answer is standing at the door of our hearts, knocking, asking that we invite it in, that we be willing to experience a love beyond human comprehension, and then grasping what it is that is wrong with this world.

Originally posted by slymattb

Here we go again

I dont know if you know, but christianity is not a newest fashion trend. Its been around longer than you, and will always be around longer than all of us.

Did I say Christianity? And no, we've all been around eternally, as far as energy and Existence is concerned.

You say there is no God and yet can you prove it. Free will, truest me to say that when anmals are in the worldest they still have free will.

It's been proved, it's just waiting to be seen. Some see it, and more and more are seeing it on their own. It's not only me in the world who thinks like this... you know slymatt? There are more.

The fact is you believe what you want Ill believe in reality and whats living.

Well, then you don't believe in God. By the definition of death, some thing that is living must die. If you believe in reality, do you also consider illusion? Illusional realities, delusional illusions, etc? I don't "believe" in any thing as far as faith is concerned, I can prove every thing that I live by through intellect and logic, not through some sick perverted blood worship of a man named Jesus.

Free will. Sounds to me you just want to be free and do whatever you want, without realizeing God is watching.

Who cares? According to your religion free will doesn't Exist. God knows every thing we do before we do it any way and will punish us or reawrd us appropriately, therefore from birth God knows whether we are going to Heaven or hell. Excuse me, but what a jerk. "HE" creates us to watch us suffer. He sounds biased, and I don't think it's fair to pick and choose who goes to Heaven and hell, because in appliance with the above definition of God... God is choosing who is going to heaven and hell. If we don't know and "HE" does... then he is obviously choosing. Or maybe your religion is flawed and contradictive.

What are your bad habits I bet that if God is watching you would'nt want him to see your actions.

Bad habits? I live life to comfort others. I currently take care of my son I inherited from a recent marriage. His Dad is terminally ill with cancer and will be leaving us soon. His Momma has been miss treated by many guys and needs someone to treat her good. She was in a car accident 8 years back and broke both of her arms completely. She suffered memory loss and was paralyzed for a short time. Had to go through physical therapy to rehabilitate her bodily actions and is finally coming to. I live life to comfort others, I don't know what "bad habits" are. I have a conscience that tells me not to kill other Human Beings and to make the obvious "better" choice. I could care less what the MAN in the sky WATCHING me thinks. (btw, what a pervert)

Just to let you know Jesus came to forgive anything and everthing as long as the heart is pure.

If someone has a blood disease, is their heart pure? I for give you. for-give, for give, forgive. See the word? GIVE, it has not a thing to do with repenting and washing away sins, though most of the religious have construed and contorted it in to such a meaning. We must become for-giving and not be for-getting. You are for-getting me in to your religion and your belief system. I am for giving you of what you are doing. I am giving you, showing you, what you are doing to me and others. Learn how to be truly for giving. We reflect each other.

Life after death is a gamable and just becuase you dont want to be accoutable does'nt mean you should'nt at least find out if God is around.

There is no life after death by the very definition of the words. Death is death. If there is life after death and we are in "heaven" before we are born, then we are all eternal. As I have been saying, we are the eternal energy of Existence. God isn't around, please see definition of eternity and apply to space and time. There is no room for "God" to Exist in paradise land Heaven, unless God is sitting on a planet some where clipping his toe nails, waiting for Earth to blow up slymatt, I am taking a gamble replying to you here, because this is way off topic. So if you could, please talk to me in u2u's from now. I'd appreciate it

quote: Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i have to keep pointing this out to you OVER and OVER again, the burden of proof falls on THOSE THAT CLAIM THE EXISTENCE OF SOMETHING

So says you. You say prove it, and I tell you the same you tell me, in all reality i cant. The burdin who should lay it is both. If you claim something you should be able to prove it. I say God exist, I could have God prove it to those who want to believe. But not in your eyes. And you make claims that God does'nt exist and that when you die you die. Prove it. Back up your claim unless you weak and dont have evidents. Sounds to me we both got a problem alot of claim no prove.

I said that your not wanting to have your present watch because MAYBE you have bad habits is just a general saying. Some people dont believe cuz they dont want that to be seen. I try to see why one does'nt believe so that I may help to believeing. You might think I hate you or your beliefs, but I dont. I wish you were saved as a brother or sister.

You cant not say there is no God or life after death, judgement of sin. Cuz in fact you just dont know. There no evidents to say there is God or not. Thats why you give me the acues to say the prove lies on me. WHATEVER YOU WANT TO BELIEVE. The fact is you cant prove either side. Tell me how do you prove that God ressurrects people after death?? Prove to me it does'nt happen. Prove that the being up stairs is not there. Can you do it? you cant.

Let me tell you a secret that is not much of a secret. God had people in heaven that believe in him. Knew God's power and his holy presents. You know what happen one of God's more personal son betray him took a 3rd of the angels with him. Satan created evil in one thought prossess. By saying I want what i want, and not what the father want. Now God could of got rid of the Satan and the 3rd angels then. But yet how was father going to find people to follow him with willfull hearts. Ones that if he lift, they would still follow. HE NEEDED PEOPLE TO FOLLOW HIM WITHOUT KNOWING HE REALLY EXIST. Why because they were true follower comes from. He needed earth because it was seprate from heaven where God lays his head. He needed evil to show me what could happen on earth. temptation. On earth you have free will to do anything because you can do it. You can do drugs, have sex with many people, kill, give life. You can cut your own hand off if you wanted to. In God's world you dont have to do anything, and you can do anything. But at the end of life as we know it, no unpure heart will enter eternal life. Bad things happen cuz the devil made sin and got saw that through it, that it would kill the weeds. And through it, and God could see the true spirits. Your luck that God said hey, you can love me or not. He didnt have to have earth or evil, alot of pain in earth has happen cuz he lets you make the choice to see him.

Believe want you want. I wish you were saved. But its not my choice. nor do I want it. I tell you man God showed me he was here. He can show you. But you must have a willing heart to see God's world. I tell you when God is with you, he opens you eyes. And makes the blind unblind.

You might say he is not here without a dout. But you dont know the truth any more than I do. I follow God by faith. You cannot find God without faith. Faith is the key to God opening your eyes. You see you dont understand how stupid(not offense) you sound to me in makeing claims that God is not here. To me a almost sorryful you dont see the truth. The evidents is around you. How do you miss it. Life is teaching that he is there. But how did you miss it. You might say cuz he is not here. I say you dont know cuz you dont watch the world around you. Im not talking about the events of gvt and war, thats just part of it. I mean the life around you and you walk. Look around more pay attention to whats around you. Then maybe and a little of faith God will let you in.

John chapter 5 25-59 For I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him who has sent me. And this is the father's will which has sent me. THAT OF ALL THAT HE HATH GIVEN ME I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, BUT SHOULD RAISE IT UP AT THE LAST DAY.

You have to remember the fact is you cannot be saved unless God has sent you to Jesus. Maybe if you accept Jesus who God has sent, he might open those eyes of yours. I say please please at least find out the truth, before you lose your eternal life.

[edit on 18-4-2007 by slymattb]

Generalizations and Bible verses, the core of Christianity.

slymatt, are you aware that you didn't quote me? Just helping you out.

Perhaps God has chosen me to destroy "HIM" Oh no, would that make me... the anti-Christ?!

[edit on 18-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

ive posted in another thread im made but ill post it here so itss easier for everyone. It is just a few logical arguments against god

Accutually the non existance of the omnipotent, kind, just god of the bible does not exist, with fairly simple logical arguements, that im sure many have already heard.

examples - Is it possible for god to create a boulder so big that even he cant move it. If he can, it proves that something can exist greater that god, and god is no longer "all powerful". If he cant he also is not all powerful because there are things he cant create

variation - Can god kill himself? If he can, then obvciously he is not all mighty, and immortal for he has the ability to kill himself. If he cannot, then there is an action he cannot do, therefor also not makng him all powerful.

Then the logic against bad things existing in the world - One of the arguments goes like this - If god were to look down and see the horrors of genocide occuring, in lets say Darfur, and he upon his throne, Is able but not willing to save the innocent people, then he is accutually a malevolent god. If he is willing, but not able then he is not all powerful. And he cannot be testing people for an omnipotent god would already know the thoughts, as well as the past, present, and future actions of any given person.

there are plent more involving about every aspect of god, but heres one expecially for the theists. Can you disprove any other god, Odin, Ra, Thor, Zues? If you can. than you can probably disprove your own god, if your willing to come to terms with that, and use your own logic. If you cannot disprove those other gods, then who are you to say your god is truly all powerful.

the only arguement ive heard against things like this, is that god exists outside logic, cannot be known, and cannot be comprehended - which to me seems kinda like something that doesnt exist. But once you give up locgi and reasoning you would also have to agree that unicorns, fairies, peter pan, leperchauns all exist and are no less likely to exist than god, because weve got plenty off books on them

I mean is it not odd that the original sin in the garden of eden was eating from the tree of knowledge. because gods a very easy thing to believe, of you dont know any better, and are too afraid to ask questions.

But this post might mean nothing to theists since "You cant reason somebody out of a belief, that they didnt reason themselves into"

so yes it is possible to LOGICALLY disprove god

[edit on 18-4-2007 by slymattb]

Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
Accutually the non existance of the omnipotent, kind, just god of the bible does not exist, with fairly simple logical arguements, that im sure many have already heard.

You cannot prove that the christain god does not exist nor do these arguements prove that he does not.

examples - Is it possible for god to create a boulder so big that even he cant move it. If he can, it proves that something can exist greater that god, and god is no longer "all powerful". If he cant he also is not all powerful because there are things he cant create.

What God creats he can destroy. Think about it everything man made can be detroy. So the answer is he can. And just because the boulder is bigger than God, does not mean the boulder is great than God, after all did the boulder creat God??

variation - Can god kill himself? If he can, then obvciously he is not all mighty, and immortal for he has the ability to kill himself. If he cannot, then there is an action he cannot do, therefor also not makng him all powerful.

If God is all powerful has the power probley to kill him or to end his existence. But that would'nt stop him from being all mighty. If God has the power to do anything then he is almighty. Just be cuz you can kill your does'nt stop the power you hold unless you are dead.

hen the logic against bad things existing in the world - One of the arguments goes like this - If god were to look down and see the horrors of genocide occuring, in lets say Darfur, and he upon his throne, Is able but not willing to save the innocent people, then he is accutually a malevolent god. If he is willing, but not able then he is not all powerful. And he cannot be testing people for an omnipotent god would already know the thoughts, as well as the past, present, and future actions of any given person.

Where free will is suppost to rain, God can enterfear, but will not.If god enterfears it would stop free will. Its others people choice to let innocent suffer. Its God choice who can be saved. God of course if he wanted to could come to earth or do what he wants. But he wants true souls to be around him and him not to be alone. To have true soul he needs people to follow him without knowing he is a real person, I call it blind faith.

there are plent more involving about every aspect of god, but heres one expecially for the theists. Can you disprove any other god, Odin, Ra, Thor, Zues? If you can. than you can probably disprove your own god, if your willing to come to terms with that, and use your own logic. If you cannot disprove those other gods, then who are you to say your god is truly all powerful.

Some not all religion can be disproven. For alot of them got there beliefs from other religions and then change the basic belief into what they want to believe. Jews. Islam. for instance. Last time I check athesis dont have a God. Just there mouths, and study.

the only arguement ive heard against things like this, is that god exists outside logic, cannot be known, and cannot be comprehended - which to me seems kinda like something that doesnt exist. But once you give up locgi and reasoning you would also have to agree that unicorns, fairies, peter pan, leperchauns all exist and are no less likely to exist than god, because weve got plenty off books on them

All those fair tell creators are fake people made them up. Now if a unicorn bones where found, I will believe. Just becuase God is alive, does not mean that peter pan is around. Why does the arguement in the last post sound like something that does exist. If God was alive do you think you would understand everthing in God world??

I mean is it not odd that the original sin in the garden of eden was eating from the tree of knowledge. because gods a very easy thing to believe, of you dont know any better, and are too afraid to ask questions.

Why would it seam odd, if its what happen. If you notice when eating the tree of knowlege they got smart and when they got smart they also got stupid. They knew they where naked. Eating the tree show them everthing they could do with or without God. What are you trying to say.

But this post might mean nothing to theists since "You cant reason somebody out of a belief, that they didnt reason themselves into"

Many believers have fall off the horst and many athesis have change before. Its just not easy.

[edit on 18-4-2007 by slymattb]

somehow i feel you sorta missed the point. . As far as free will goes, everyone here in the US has freedom to do what they want until they start to ahrm other people, when they are punished before they can continue. Now the god that is suppose to be the creator of all morale fiber will allow genocide to go on, even though he knows the ultimate outcome, intsead of just smoting the killers.

My point with the fairy tale creatures, is that god is made up by man as well, and has no more true proof than any of those. the only proof being that adults enjoy his book, and that it has been spoken as fact, because when it was first written it was the only way most people could explain alot of things.

With the boulder greater is not the correct word, and your are still missing the point. Either way, the answer leads to a conclusion that there is an act god cannot do, either he cannot make the boulder, or cannot move it, therefor couldnt be an omnipotent god.

My point with the tree of knowledge is that, from the begggining of the bible story, the gathering of knowledge, therefore understanding your world, is thought of as sin.

And again you miss the point of the disproving god thing. because there is no more proof for your god then any others, therefore if you can disprove other god you can also disprove your own. If you cannot disprove them then how are you to say your god is all powerful, when there are thousands of gods you cannot disprove.

Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
somehow i feel you sorta missed the point. . As far as free will goes, everyone here in the US has freedom to do what they want until they start to ahrm other people, when they are punished before they can continue. Now the god that is suppose to be the creator of all morale fiber will allow genocide to go on, even though he knows the ultimate outcome, intsead of just smoting the killers.

Its better to kill one who will kill many. One time I thought i read that in a bible. never could find that scripure again. I think I red it in a morman things. One way or another. If God enterfeared. There would be no free will. Free will is why all this bad and good things can happen. Besides for all you know there deaths could save many later in life.

My point with the fairy tale creatures, is that god is made up by man as well, and has no more true proof than any of those. the only proof being that adults enjoy his book, and that it has been spoken as fact, because when it was first written it was the only way most people could explain alot of things.

Fairy tales dont answer prays and protect your life, nor does fairy tales lead you in the middle of the night through the darkness.

With the boulder greater is not the correct word, and your are still missing the point. Either way, the answer leads to a conclusion that there is an act god cannot do, either he cannot make the boulder, or cannot move it, therefor couldnt be an omnipotent god.

I understood maybe you missed my point here. What your saying is if it happen that God could not move the boulder. What I was trying to say is I bet if God did come down created a boulder bigger than him, that he would be able to move it and detroy it.

My point with the tree of knowledge is that, from the begggining of the bible story, the gathering of knowledge, therefore understanding your world, is thought of as sin.

Many things out there are sin. I think the tree of knowledge is what it said. Knowledge, to know that good and bad things are in the world. The fact they where naked. Not just sin came in the world through the wise tree.

And again you miss the point of the disproving god thing. because there is no more proof for your god then any others, therefore if you can disprove other god you can also disprove your own. If you cannot disprove them then how are you to say your god is all powerful, when there are thousands of gods you cannot disprove.

Lol funny, to be pefectly honest there are many religions out there that you can disprove. Some so stupid you cannot believe there a religon. (for instance) just because you can disprove that mohomand was islam was a bad religion and that there God is not real does not mean you can disprove God os christian. And again free will, this whole things is about free will. Just because i cannot disprove other Gods how would that make the creator less powerful. That does'nt even make sents.

Your still not answeing the question about the boudler, i wasnt saying aboulder bigger than him, i was saying so heavy he couldnt move it. As far as the fairytales, the only reason for them not guiding you, and not answering your prayers, is that WE, HUMANS, dont believe in them the way we believe in god, not because they really make any less sense or becuase god is any more real. Not to mentino notcie how once science came about in a large scale and we undertsand the wordl around us, god has stopped talking to everyone.

And about the god thing, except for the few religions that are completetly out there, how are any other religions/gods any less real than yours?

Mods, a little help here? It looks like this thread has been hijacked.

If you guys want to talk about paradoxes pertaining to God, I suggest you start a new thread, don't hijack this one.

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier
Mods, a little help here? It looks like this thread has been hijacked.

If you guys want to talk about paradoxes pertaining to God, I suggest you start a new thread, don't hijack this one.

If a person asks people to make him believe god exists, that implies he's asking for proof of god. If he asks for that, all he's going to get is proof that god doesn't exist because that's all the proof that exists.

This thread looks fine to me.