Britains GPS co-ordinates pictures?

Let's have a brief look at violations of Iranian territory by the British armed forces:
I suppose 'they' made mistakes in each of these cases too, and that the british were simply detained illegially.

Truth is, Britian has entered Iran many times...

Now theyve been captured, everyones going on about how bad Iran is......
www2.irna.ir...



1. British unmanned reconnaissance plane RPV violated Iranian airspace in northeastern Abadan in June 2004 and was hit by Iranian anti-aircraft guns. RPV debris is available.

2. At 11 O'clock local time on June 22, 2004, three British speed boats with eight navy personnel on board trespassed Iranian borders and were arrested by Iranian coast guards.

3. At 21:30 local time on November 1, 2006, two British Black awks (choppers) from Royal Navy hovered at the height of 150 meters at 47,700-17,400 coordinates on Khorramshahr map (Pole-No: new bridge) violating Iranian airspace and they entered Iraqi territory through 62,500-15,500 coordinates after 10 minutes.

4. On January 27, 2007 a British helicopter flew over mouth of Arvandrud (Arvand river) and violated Iran's airspace and they left the area after a warning from Iranian coast guards.

5. Three British Navy boats entered Khor Mousa mouth in Iranian territorial waters on February 28, 2007.

The sixth was trespass of two British Navy boats with 15 marines on board into Iranian territorial waters at Arvandrud which led to their arrest by Iranian coast guards


[edit on 29-3-2007 by Kristol n Stauss]

I wonder if the iranians that were captured in Iraq after questioning may have revealed some information that is causing this?...just a thought.

Originally posted by Kristol n Stauss
Let's have a brief look at violations of Iranian territory by the British armed forces:
I suppose 'they' made mistakes in each of these cases too, and that the british were simply detained illegially.

Truth is, Britian has entered Iran many times...

Now theyve been captured, everyones going on about how bad Iran is......
www2.irna.ir...



1. British unmanned reconnaissance plane RPV violated Iranian airspace in northeastern Abadan in June 2004 and was hit by Iranian anti-aircraft guns. RPV debris is available.

2. At 11 O'clock local time on June 22, 2004, three British speed boats with eight navy personnel on board trespassed Iranian borders and were arrested by Iranian coast guards.

3. At 21:30 local time on November 1, 2006, two British Black awks (choppers) from Royal Navy hovered at the height of 150 meters at 47,700-17,400 coordinates on Khorramshahr map (Pole-No: new bridge) violating Iranian airspace and they entered Iraqi territory through 62,500-15,500 coordinates after 10 minutes.

4. On January 27, 2007 a British helicopter flew over mouth of Arvandrud (Arvand river) and violated Iran's airspace and they left the area after a warning from Iranian coast guards.

5. Three British Navy boats entered Khor Mousa mouth in Iranian territorial waters on February 28, 2007.

The sixth was trespass of two British Navy boats with 15 marines on board into Iranian territorial waters at Arvandrud which led to their arrest by Iranian coast guards


[edit on 29-3-2007 by Kristol n Stauss]

I have to say something to your previous posts the above quoted and before when you said "even the prisoners are saying they are wrong"

Firstly i'm not sure where you are from but the above times you have said we have been in iran, every country in the world checks out other countries from time to time and one such as iran and what they have been doing recently deserves to be checked out for our own intrests. However I still have heard that even those times you mentioned above are questionable. For example while watching the news today they were talking about how the troops had a legal right to shoot their way out of being caught as we were not in their waters. This was backed up by one of the troops which were caught before when he said they thought of shooting their way out but were heavily outgunned and decided not to. If they knew they were in iranian waters then they wouldn't have thought about it.

Secondly to your point on the prisioners admitting they were wrong.

Do you really believe that the iranian government are going to let them say anything they want? They are being denied access to british diplomats etc by iran, iran are not going to let them come out and say yeah we were right. Also the letter that was sent by the female officer said

"Isn't it time to start withdrawing our forces from Iraq and let them determine their own future?"

Why would a officer say this in a letter whilst being held captive? is that something you would write if you were being held captive whilst serving your country? I doubt it.

Well thats my two bits

I think iran is wrong and they should help themselves and stop doing things which are causing unrest with the world.

Awesome, thanks for the reply.

Your saying, if they were in Iraqi waters, they would of been compelled to shoot, being the Iranians were obviously coming out of their zone to physically detain them.

Doesnt this lend credence to the fact that the brits were in Iranian waters?
They knew they were wrong, thus why they didnt defend themselves?

Thats my take on it.

And as for the confession...

If the Iranians said
'' say this or else ''
The british would know it was an empty threat... wouldnt you sit there and simply say nothing? refuse to say what they told you? I mean, what are the Iranians going to do, torture you? That would be end game for Iran.

If she had of said NOTHING, and refused to admit to a lie.. that to me would say the brits were in Iraqi waters.
But she admitted to it...
Im not saying its fact, or to believe her, BUT.. we have been forced to believe the US when they said admission under duress is fact, so why are we allowed to question this one ?

And again, as for the other dubious accounts, The coalition has admitted many times that they do make incursions into Iran.
So its not out of the question we did this time too.

And if the Iranians had of captured us 'those' times, they'd be within their rights to detain us ' the coalition '

To be honest here, I havent made my mind up on where the Brits were.

But, if the British had rock solid proof, it would of been presented immediately. Not 4 days later. And the proof they have given can be EASILY faked. To pursuade the public they needed concrete evidence, not dubious proof.

In my mind, there's no reason for Iran to enter Iraqi waters, kidnapp coalition soliders and detain them. What do they gain, from bringing MORE international pressure on them by committing an illegial act?

Plus, its very, very convenient for the coalition for this to happen. Especially being they've been poking Iran to retaliate for some time, and havent bitten.

BUT

Iran did say they would respond in kind to the illegial acts the coalition performed on detaining its officials. So this could be a counter-act.
How long did we hold their officials for?

Unfortunatley, I think this is the last nail in the coffin of peace.

Whats this, another chlorine attack aimed specifically at US troops yesterday.

1. The surge has failed.
2. Diplomatic force on Iran has failed.

The only thing left is to find a justified means of striking them, and moving it outwards to hit their nuclear capability.



[edit on 29-3-2007 by Kristol n Stauss]

I can kinda see where you are coming from in some respects with the what would they do if the captives didn't say what they wanted thing. But perhaps iran are thinking now that war is going to happen so perhaps they would torture one of them who knows, all I know is that if I was a captive in this situation I would want to go home and I would co operate in whatever way I could.

Also with the shooting out thing I mentioned. When the navy do checks on boats like the one they were caught on leaving. They are only issues with a pistol or a rifle. Now a few people with pistols and rifles aren't going to stand much chance against the iranian patrols.

I also remember reading somewhere that it was believed to be a pre meditated attack as the iranians got there as they were leaving the ship and why not do so before they were there if they were in iranian waters anyway. One other piece of info I remember reading was that they got the original GPS co ordinates from the last transmittion before they were captured, it was persumed that the GPS unit/radio I can't remember which was trown overboard or something.

But I mean I guess your always going to have this arguement when something like this happens its going to be pretty embarrising for either country to admit they were wrong. However I have to stick with britian on this one, Iran has been up to too much recently.

Originally posted by Kristol n Stauss

If we had proper proof we would of released it DAY one.

Even the picture of the positioning of the boat, and the line that was displayed.

Give me 5 minutes, MS Paint and ill be done.

I dont think either of them have any proof of where that ship is.

All we have are two government saying 'they are wrong'
and captured sailors saying '' yes, we were wrong ''

I dont think it matters anymore to be honest.
They have them, and dont want to let them go until Britian admits they where in their waters.

And to be honest?.. im tending to believe Iran.. simply because the west has admitted that we have strayed into their territory on many occasion.

So why all of a sudden is it so hard to believe we did this time?

Your posts tend to come across as you making up your mind as soon as this all kicked off. Do you really believe those letters are 100% her words? Even though words to describe members of the UK Government ("Representatives" is a US word, we just don't use it in regards to our Government) were used instead of the very natural MP, and she is taking home a gift from the Iranian people?

You say both sides have NO proof, you are then saying that GPS is pointless and has no usefulness? And the UK releasing proof is a massive slap in the face to Iran, why should they start diplomatic negotiations on such an aggressive stance?

What do you say about the Iranians giving TWO sets of coordinates, the first being in Iraqi waters? The UK proof is "highly dubious"? And Iran's isn't?? You have not mentioned the Indian merchant ship. The Iranians captured the personnel as they disembarked that vessel - so if it stayed at anchor AFTER the event, it would remained in Iranian waters, no?

I really don't get how you can side with Iran on this. Even IF they were in Iranian waters by a fraction, they could NOT take them away, that IS illegal.

Moving on to you second post -

If the Iranians said'' say this or else ''The british would know it was an empty threat... wouldnt you sit there and simply say nothing? refuse to say what they told you? I mean, what are the Iranians going to do, torture you? That would be end game for Iran.

If she had of said NOTHING, and refused to admit to a lie.. that to me would say the brits were in Iraqi waters.But she admitted to it...Im not saying its fact, or to believe her, BUT.. we have been forced to believe the US when they said admission under duress is fact, so why are we allowed to question this one ?

Hopefully it isn't happening, but the Iranians could torture some of them and we just wouldn't know. They still refuse to give us consular access. Why won't they just let us see them?

You have to remember that these 15 members of the Royal Navy are NOT, and never have been, trained in what to do if captured. Only air crews, special forces and rescue teams have that kind of training. They just want to get home to their families, why on Earth would they say nothing? Do you not think that that would come across as holding something back from Iran? Would they not be the slightest bit interested in what that "secret" might be?

And confessions from GITMO and confessions in letters can be exclusive from each other. You don't have to believe or disbelieve both at once.

I just noticed on the newest video release from Iran on the violation of territorial waters and noticed the map they were using is dated 1986. Does anyone know how old the maps the brits and americans are using?


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