Iranian State Tv Airs Video of Captured British Troops

Both sides are pointing the crewmembers to being a mere 0.5 kilometers on either side of the border...

500 meters... has anyone bothered to think about how small 500 meters is?
The border itself is probably that thick. Alot of war vessels are longer than that.

500 meters is nothing. It's the width of the line on the map in relation to the actual water itself.

Originally posted by johnsky
Both sides are pointing the crewmembers to being a mere 0.5 kilometers on either side of the border...

500 meters... has anyone bothered to think about how small 500 meters is?
The border itself is probably that thick. Alot of war vessels are longer than that.

500 meters is nothing. It's the width of the line on the map in relation to the actual water itself.

GPS is very accurate to the neariest 3m (miliatry is even more accurate)
also they were using small crafts which are only a couple feet in length and width

Originally posted by johnsky
Both sides are pointing the crewmembers to being a mere 0.5 kilometers on either side of the border...

The Brits are saying they were 1.7 nautical miles inside Iraqi waters, not 500m.

Cheers,
Zep

I really don't understand why Iran is doing this. It is almost like they are asking to be attacked. I don't want another war that's for sure, but if the service people are harmed, then I would support the US joining Britain in attacking Iran.

I must admit I find it interesting that this confession is instantly assumed as forced, and yet the recent Gitmo confession was accepted at face value and 'case closed' as it were.

For a little perspective: I don't know about anyone else here, but I'd rather be taken prisoner by the Iranians than thrown in Gitmo. Anyone else feel the same?

Plus, I wouldn't judge too much from the language used. Keep in mind that the majority of members here speak English as their first language and still struggle to compose a legible post

And I think it's important to keep in mind the dangerous line that the Iranian president must walk. He's smart enough to know that any conflict with the West will not end well for his country, and wants to avoid it. But at the same time, his slippery grasp on the power in his country is based on a strong anti-American rhetoric. And that's one of the biggest differences between him and Bush - in my opinion. The Iranian president may or may not believe whole-heartedly the things he is saying. But he certainly needs to say them to keep his people happy. The American president most definitely believes the things he is saying, because he says them in spite of how unhappy his statements make his own people.

TheStev, you know that a lot of americans here are the biggest hypocrits in the world. They always use double-standart for them and the others. If someone else does what they do, it's criminal, but if you turn it against them, it's ``anti-american``.

A little example, torture. The US torture little childrens, womans and mens, no matter who or how old. Then they are screaming about another country doing it like: ``If they torture them, we'll go to war and turn them into a glass parking lot.`` You know, that kind of crap.

Anyway, this girl may be right, may be wrong, we'll probably never know.

This won't turn into anything bad because England is to scared to start a war because the government knows most of the people in England don't support the government, and don't have any respect or pride for the nation.

But eventually, they'll have to go to war, and I hope it makes people become patriotic of Britain.

The US is so hypocritical when it comes to torture and the mistreatement of the captured. We are so quick to come up with new laws or find loopholes in the Geneva convention to justify ourselves. But when someone else does the same thing to us.Its an outrage. IMO nothing hasnt happened to us that we hadnt done to other countries a few years prior. Not that it makes the loss of innocent life right on either side but it does explain why people dont like US

Ok, yeah, so maybe our GOVERNMENT is hypocritical. Just do not confuse the PEOPLE with the GOVERNMENT in your rants. Be mindful that a lot of people on these boards are American. Only SOME of us have the ignorant and hypocritical views you are speaking about. There are people, such as myself, who aren't close minded and only wish for the safe return of the sailors without the use of force. I know its easy to say all Americans are hypocritical but please try to avoid making comments like that in the future. It only adds more fuel to the fire.

Originally posted by fookerboy69
Ok, yeah, so maybe our GOVERNMENT is hypocritical. Just do not confuse the PEOPLE with the GOVERNMENT in your rants. Be mindful that a lot of people on these boards are American. Only SOME of us have the ignorant and hypocritical views you are speaking about. There are people, such as myself, who aren't close minded and only wish for the safe return of the sailors without the use of force. I know its easy to say all Americans are hypocritical but please try to avoid making comments like that in the future. It only adds more fuel to the fire.

Excuse me but I am an American and I know that not ALL the people have those views but some do. Whenever I say US i mean the GOVERNMENT if i meant the regular people i would have said it. And i wasn't ranting i was stating my opinion in what i thought was a calm manner but obviously you misinterpreted me. And so what, I KNOW most of the people on this board are american, am i supposed to hide my opinion because of it?. I too wish for the safe return of the sailors without the use of force but I was speaking of the nature of the US GOVERNMENT.

This is just a game of symantics. The British claim their ship was 1.7NM from Iranian waters. That's not the position of the RIBS. The position of the Indian vessel they were supposedly boarding would be nice. If the RIBS cruise speed is 35knots(and that's a conservative number), they could cover that distance in 3 mins.

To me this looks like the British Navy got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and rather than admit a mistake they would possibly rather go to war. I'm sure Bush is encouraging Tony Blair to do just that so the US can go in there in support of an important ally. Since Congress won't let him do it. It looks like more and more Bush wants to start WW3.

Impeach him already.

This won't turn into anything bad because England is to scared to start a war because the government knows most of the people in England don't support the government, and don't have any respect or pride for the nation.

May I remind you, England is part of a Country... ya know need any hints? United or Great? I will let you work out the 2nd words Eh... As for your other comment, please show the facts of what you are saying first, that the UK Public will not support the Gov on this...

Also may I point out any harm comes to those servicemen, I can gurantee you, if it comes to it, the UK public will nack who ever is in Government... The UK Public would be so outraged.

Im thinking anyways, if we did go down this road, wouldnt the Gov have to introduce once again conscription? We dont have the manpower or the cash to carry out another war anyways....

Mind you M.T. managed to pull it off during the falklands, wonder if T.Blair will too or G.Brown....

I'm just very puzzled by Blair's reactions. It seems as if he's as much to blame for dragging all of this out more than it needed to be. I'd hate to think he was using the soldiers plight for his own agendas, like our own Mr. Bush.

Thats where I disagree, Blair did not start this one this time, all of this was planned by Iran, can guarantee you their leader knew about it...

Put it this way, if Blair gets his way he will finish it....

3 Even if they weren't in Iranian waters, who started all of this anyway?

Oh I think that was let me see, want a hint? Iran ya know, those servicemen were there under the UN Umbrella not the us or the uk the UN....

Originally posted by thelibra
I don't see it. It didn't cast Britain or the soldiers in a particularly bad light. I agree it was absolutely scripted to make Iran come out smelling like roses and strawberries, even down to the "luxury cigarette" mentioned earlier.

I also don't want to give the impression that I think the soldiers have it "good" by any means in Iranian captivity. I'm just very puzzled by Blair's reactions. It seems as if he's as much to blame for dragging all of this out more than it needed to be. I'd hate to think he was using the soldiers plight for his own agendas, like our own Mr. Bush.

Well it upsets the families of the 15 a great deal. Outside of the propaganda in and out of Iran, they knew it would do that.

And I just don't see what the UK Government has done wrong here. Are you suggesting they should back off, not demand for their release and let them rot for weeks or months as we take it nice and slow?

Originally posted by thelibraJudging from the positions given, the maps, and the error margin of only 2 nautical miles, and how FUBARed things get on the surface of the water, and that they were in rafts, not actual seaworthy crafts with massive instrument panels, I would think that any two sensible national leaders could say "oops, wow, that was awkward" and get it sorted out quickly and quietly. Things like this have happened countless times before, and it's never gotten this much attention unless someone wanted a war over it.

Rafts? Not quite This RHIBs they were on are designed to withstand fierce conditions in the North Sea - and believe me, it can get very rough out there. So they are VERY seaworthy. And yes, leaders should just have something like this sorted inside a day, but

a) The world is not a nice place, it's sad but true.
and b) it looks like it is the Republican Guard who is calling the shots here.

It was the Republican Guard who captured them and took them away; the video was broadcast on state television, not the more free TV station they have, and guess who is ultimately in charge of it? The Republican Guard.

Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
This is just a game of symantics. The British claim their ship was 1.7NM from Iranian waters. That's not the position of the RIBS. The position of the Indian vessel they were supposedly boarding would be nice. If the RIBS cruise speed is 35knots(and that's a conservative number), they could cover that distance in 3 mins.

No, the British claim the merchant vessel and the RHIBs were 1.7 NM inside Iraqi waters. The HMS Cornwall was another 8 miles out.

The map that the Ministry of Defense provided, which you can see here, news.bbc.co.uk... , DOES show the position of the merchant vessel. Which is still anchored in the same spot as it's engine failed in the first place. If it is in Iraqi waters, how did it get there without it's engine if it wasn't there already? The Cornwall couldn't have towed it as the waters are too shallow for the warship to enter.

Another point I wanted to bring up and didn't see mentioned already. I saw a bit of Newsnight last night, and Ming Campbell talked about the letter. He said that this part...

We were out in the boats when we were arrested by Iranian forces as we had apparently gone into Iranian waters. I wish we hadn't because then I'd be home with you all right now.

...was obviously false as she would never be at home right now, she would be serving on HMS Cornwall.

It kind of disturbs me that so many of you are just accepting that propaganda video of the troops being treated well at face value. I mean, have you guys seen the garbage they air on Iranian state television? This video is 100% propaganda, just like lots of other things they air.

And secondly, we're talking about a country where a guy can get sentenced to have his eyeballs surgically removed. Human and civil rights are not exactly a huge priority over there.

And seriously, Google the USS Pueblo and the photos the North Koreans put out that "proved" they were treating the soldiers well.

And for anyone that said they'd prefer Iranian prison over Gitmo, I think that would be an unwise decision, to say the least. I'll take a Koran and a cell in Gitmo where the prisoners get treated humanely over an Iranian detention and who-knows-what.

Originally posted by whiterabbit
It kind of disturbs me that so many of you are just accepting that propaganda video of the troops being treated well at face value. I mean, have you guys seen the garbage they air on Iranian state television? This video is 100% propaganda, just like lots of other things they air.

And secondly, we're talking about a country where a guy can get sentenced to have his eyeballs surgically removed. Human and civil rights are not exactly a huge priority over there.

And seriously, Google the USS Pueblo and the photos the North Koreans put out that "proved" they were treating the soldiers well.

And for anyone that said they'd prefer Iranian prison over Gitmo, I think that would be an unwise decision, to say the least. I'll take a Koran and a cell in Gitmo where the prisoners get treated humanely over an Iranian detention and who-knows-what.

I'm not sure there are many who are saying that they ARE being treated well NOW. The thing is, they were fine when we saw them, we only have the Iranians word on when the video and letter were actually made. They could have been done early on, over the weekend perhaps. Who knows what they have been going through since then.

Hopefully they are all okay and not being threatened with anything, let alone having to go through things like fake executions (see 2004 incident). The consular access on Friday should be able to find out what exactly has been going on.

Originally posted by Muppetus GalacticusThe consular access on Friday should be able to find out what exactly has been going on.

Scratch that.

news.bbc.co.uk...
He said a pledge by Iranian foreign minister Manouchehr Mottaki that British officials in Tehran would be given consular access to the personnel had not taken place.

Originally posted by whiterabbit
It kind of disturbs me that so many of you are just accepting that propaganda video of the troops being treated well at face value. I mean, have you guys seen the garbage they air on Iranian state television? This video is 100% propaganda, just like lots of other things they air.

And secondly, we're talking about a country where a guy can get sentenced to have his eyeballs surgically removed. Human and civil rights are not exactly a huge priority over there.

And seriously, Google the USS Pueblo and the photos the North Koreans put out that "proved" they were treating the soldiers well.

And for anyone that said they'd prefer Iranian prison over Gitmo, I think that would be an unwise decision, to say the least. I'll take a Koran and a cell in Gitmo where the prisoners get treated humanely over an Iranian detention and who-knows-what.

I agree with you whiterabbit, if they can do these things to their own people, imagine what they can do to people from a country that they hate. I realize the US hasn't always treated their people the best but we don't cut out people eyeballs, or sentence a women to 80 lashes because she was raped!

Do you now what a brainwash is ?
On the video they all look like children having snacks after class.
It's so humiliating for the soldiers' families. Seeing their people enjoying a iranian holiday camp is a shame, as it is a new example of the Iranian double language.