UK troops captured by Iran

Time.com have a very interesting article entitled Why Iran Seized the British Marines.

The article expands on the role of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps in Iran, as well as highlighting pertinent background info. I've also been reading elsewhere that many in Iran are calling for the servicemen to be held until the five people arrested in Iraq are released and the UN sanctions are dropped. Like I said in another post, they would have to be stupid to think they could get away with that sort of behaviour.

Selected quotes:

The most ominous detail about Iran's seizure of 15 British Royal Marines in the Shatt-al-Arab waterway on Friday morning is that the servicemen were reportedly taken into custody by the navy of the Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC). The IRGC is a powerful, separate branch of the Iranian armed forces. Soaked with nationalist ideology, it has grown into a state within a state in Iran, with its own naval, air and ground forces, parallel to official government institutions. The IRGC is directly controlled by Supreme Leader Ayatullah Ali Khamenei, the ultimate font of religious and political power in Iran. The IRGC also has its own intelligence arm and commands irregular forces such as the basij — a voluntary paramilitary group affiliated with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad — and the Quds force, which has been accused by the U.S. of supplying material to Iraqi insurgents bent on killing American soldiers.

SNIP

Because the IRGC's actions are always interwoven with the religious-nationalist ideology of Iran's hardliners, extricating the British may be complicated. The Royal Marines, assigned to HMS Cornwall, had been on an anti-smuggling procedure sanctioned by the U.N. but were apparently taken into custody anyway by Iranian naval vessels in the Shatt-al-Arab, a 120-mile stretch of salt marsh disputed between Iraq and Iran.

SNIP

According to the semi-official ISNA news agency, General Ali Reza Afshar, a veteran IRGC officer and the proaganda and cultural affairs chief of the Iranian armed forces, said the detained Britons had �confessed to illegal entry into Iran's waters." He said: "The arrest of the British forces illegally entering Iran's waters showed that our country's armed forces are at all times prepared for our defense... America and its allies know that if they make a mistake in attacking Islamic Iran, they will not be able to control the dimensions and timing of a war."

SNIP

A must read article IMO.

Cheers,
Zep

Edited for spelling

[edit on 24-3-2007 by Zep Tepi]

The Sunday Times in the UK reports the following:

Iran ‘to try Britons for espionage’

FIFTEEN British sailors and marines arrested by Iran’s Revolutionary Guards off the coast of Iraq may be charged with spying.

A website run by associates of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, reported last night that the Britons would be put before a court and indicted.

Referring to them as “insurgents”, the site concluded: “If it is proven that they deliberately entered Iranian territory, they will be charged with espionage. If that is proven, they can expect a very serious penalty since according to Iranian law, espionage is one of the most serious offences.”

Read the full article at the link above

Cheers,
Zep

Originally posted by KonigKaos

You are by far the most Anti-American piece of [mod edit] i've ever sene in my life Agit

[edit on 3/24/2007 by Gools]

jesus ^^^^^^ n christ..

its like its ILLEGIAL these days to speak ill of the USA.

your the damn reason this planet is in such a f'n mess with this god dam war

im sick of you 10yr olds who go mental simply because I HATE THE FACT YOUR ADMINISTRATION STARTED THIS ILLEGIAL DAMN WAR....
People like you would of gone down well, in the NAZI groups whom were ordered to capture french resistance..

[edit on 24-3-2007 by Agit8dChop]

Originally posted by infinite

Iran: British sailors 'bargaining chips'

An Iranian military official said Saturday afternoon that the 15 detained British sailors "confessed" to illegally entering Iranian waters.

The sailors, taken at gunpoint Friday by Iranian Revolutionary Guard and Al Quds soldiers were captured intentionally and are to be used as bargaining chips to be used for the release of five Iranians who were arrested at the Iranian consul in Irbil, Iraq by US troops, an Iranian official told the daily paper Asharq al-Awsat on Saturday.

In addition, a senior Iranian military official said Saturday that the decision to capture the soldiers was made during a March 18 emergency meeting of the High Council for Security following a report by the Al-Quds contingent commander, Kassem Suleimani, to the Iranian chief of the armed forces, Maj.Gen. Hassan Firouz Abadi. In the report, according to Asharq al-Awsat, Suleimani warned Abadi that Al Quds and Revolutionary Guards' operations had become transparent to US and British intelligence following the arrest of a senior Al Quds officer and four of his deputies in Irbil.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Jpost

Lets hope they use the same 'humane' methods of interogation that the coalition uses eh?

I mean, if the US and british are so 'noble' im sure we can expect our enemies to do to us, as we do to them right?

Or is that to much of an anti-american view?

[edit on 24-3-2007 by Agit8dChop]

Originally posted by Zep Tepi
The Sunday Times in the UK reports the following:

Iran ‘to try Britons for espionage’

FIFTEEN British sailors and marines arrested by Iran’s Revolutionary Guards off the coast of Iraq may be charged with spying.

A website run by associates of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, reported last night that the Britons would be put before a court and indicted.

Referring to them as “insurgents”, the site concluded: “If it is proven that they deliberately entered Iranian territory, they will be charged with espionage. If that is proven, they can expect a very serious penalty since according to Iranian law, espionage is one of the most serious offences.”

Read the full article at the link above

Cheers,
Zep

To onto others, what you expect them to do onto yourself.
Kinda sucks now the shoe's on a different foot doesnt it.....

what, you think the arab world was going to sit by for ever allowing you to destroy Iraq?.....

Stuff like this, the iranians capture soliders...
the IEDS, and VBIEDS and all that crap are going to continue to get worse...
chemicals... beheadings...

Its all nessecary until some people on this planet start taking a step and going..

" HMMMM... all this needless bloodshed and suffering... was all this REALLY WORTH taking out our old friend 'saddam' and capturing his oil fields ''

jesus its been 4 yrs of slaughter in Iraq... because of the US led invasion....
and some of you still find it impossible to fault the USA on this action...

NO GOOD DEED goes unpunished... and karma's a bitch.

the way I figure it.. the US has 600,000 needless deaths coming its way because of Karma.

your sobs that hate me simply because i criticise the US constantly... should go to Iraq.. save the people with a humane point of view the trouble of joining this ILLEGIAL CAMPAIGN agains the ME!

Just posting this latest, don't know too much about the source

Ahmadinejad: Iran will never initiate war

Iran's President Mahmud Ahmadinejad says the Iranian nation respect all people across the world including the Americans.

Responding to a letter written by an American woman, who lost his son during the Iraq war, President Ahmadinejad said," Those Iranian mothers who lost their beloved children due to U.S atrocities or those children whose parents were martyred do not wish the American people be victims of the deviousness of the U.S politicians."

He added, "Even those Iranian people who lost their families during the U.S. missile attack on the Iranian airliner over the Persian Gulf are not willing to initiate any war."

Iran is just asking for it, like their aren't enough troops in the Middle East already. They should release the soldiers ASAP before things get out of hand. Even if they are guilty, Tony won't let the Iranians keep them locked up in some Iranian prison in the middle of the desert, several things can come from this:
Iran gives them back, peacefull ending.
Iran try and find them guilty of sabotage, Iran gets invaded, none of their neighbours will aid them because they don't want to be targets.

If Iran gets invaded, Iraq will settle down a bit, because a lot of explosives will stop being smuggled into Iraq.

REALLY!......Britain is just going to have to go over there and kick some irani buts!
The facts are thus.........
The coalition is a bunch of stumble bums who cant even protect a couple of small boats......
How in heavens name do you think they will perform as a war fighting force when shooting ships in the Gulf is like shooting fich in a barrel!
I dont care how antiquated or innaccuraTE THEIR MISSLES ARE THEY ONLY HAVE TO FIRE ENOUGH OF THEM AND THEY CANT HELP BUT TAKE SOME SHIP OR OTHER OUT.
The bigger the ship, the easier it is to hit!
The ammount of warships to shoot at is increasing every week!
The allies better screw their heads on straight soon!
This move by irans rgc to kidnap our people is totally typical!
The command structure had better read upon what Iran did in the Saddam war too!
We are going to lose ships of the capital variety as well as thousands of our sailors if we dont get on the ball!
The complacency that has to be in effect for a small force to kidnap our men/women right in front of the noses of the biggest naval force in the world right now,and in daylight too, is really sickeneing and it tells me that we may have the firepower, but our people are soft and lazy, almost negligent in their apathetic performance here.
The Iranis are very together militarily and very determined spiritually.
We will have another shock like the brits did in the falklands when a few exocette missles put paid tp their aluminium fire traps boats.
Wec are discussing asymetric warfare at sea on land and in the air.....
our people do not have the heas to deal with this type of battle.
Our equipment is also not suited to this type of fight.
The Iranis will contiue to fight asymetrically and wll continue to seek the vulnerable spots in our forces...
Some of these vulnerabilities are not physical, but mental.
Our people are not as dedicated, as ready, or as determined .....
We may have the arms of superior quality, but we are not going to be able to bring them to bear on the types of operations that they will employ against us.
Where was the combat air?
The waterway, should be under a constant umbrella of air patrols which are put up there to guard the fleet against just such contingencies....
Why did the iranis get close to our zodiacs?
This is inconcievable to let a weaker force of our troops get into a situation where they couldeasily be dominated by theirs...!!!
Somebody F77890-d up!
Weare not taking this seriously, because we are so much stronger than they.In actuality a guns a gun and the most ancent of weapons in skilled determined hands are better than the best in the hands of utter idiots!
I expect that now, the iranis will sentence the people to life or execution when they find them guilty of espionage.
Mark my words we will not see the troops back here again soon.
They will be exploited much as the iran hostage taking years ago explloited the hostages and the world with them
Remember we didnt win that round either!
If thingslike the attitudes of our troops dont get more alert and active,we will suffer the same ignominous crap we did last time.
I deem the fighting forces that the Iranis face at present iconsist of soft and spoiled people who are not ready to take on fanatics of their nature.
If the whole thing came down to men and rifles.wed get our asses handed to us on a platter.
We dont have that many troops who have the same or better dedication to victory thanthey do.
Yes we have the weapons, but without the drive to get them on target despite all oposition,they will be useless.

We cannot even contemplate a boots on the ground war wth iran,theyd grind us up if we entered their territory with troops.
Their country is too rough of terrain and too populous to conquoer with the army we could field.
When we take casualties of the quantity that war on the ground with iran would produce
We wont last a month of all out fighting.
The high command must realise this!
Even a shock and awe over the whole structure of iran will only make these people mre seadfast.They already know how to sacrifice,and to what extent they must do so to even hold the allies at bay.
We, on the other hand start to fold as soon as our kids take a few dead and wounded.
They were sending young teens out to attack saddams guys,with only half of them armed.
The unarmed ones were to get the guns off the fallen troops ahead of them,and to carry on attacking!
And they did!

The way i see it, what better way to get a war started than to order one of your own ships to 'accidentally' stumble into Iranian waters. Intel would know that the Iranians would respond to it, and be damned well angry about it.

Cry innocence, and use Iran's response to warrant a new round of shock and awe...

What scares me is that i'm 19... My country is running out of men for home defense, and if they keep offering to send Bush more men for his wars then little Johnny will think about the Australian 'tradition' of conscription.

If they try to conscript me to go to war for that anti-christ, they've got another thing coming.

The difficulty is that the area that the Royal navy is operatuing in isn't like the territorial waters around the US or Britain.
These are and have been for years disputed waters so the dividing line between Iran and Iraq is very grey ,
So ( A ) The Royal navy knew where they were and did it to provoke test the Iranians or
( B ) The Iranians got the hump because it deemed the Royal navy was in waters

This means nothing since I didnt post it before the fact but for the last few weeks, I have noticed and quite and still the middle east seemed to be getting; at least from watching the news is concerned.

With more sanctions against Iran and their Brit-snatching efforts in the Persian Gulf, I expect thats the thunder before the lightening storm.

Like Japan circa WWII, we (the US) is trying to back Iran into a corner to the point where they have no choice but to launch a strike.

Iran knows they are on the verge of getting blitzed. Once we start hitting them, Iran will likely launch offensive weapons for the sake of their own defense and in fear that they will lose the ability to launch ANY offensive strike attack.

Iran can score a short term advantage by launching a first strike.

In both Gulf wars, Iraq used restraint. They could have dumped WMD everywhere but didnt. Will Iran use the same restraint?

Japan exercised some restraint by not launching wave after wave on Pearl Harbor and following it up with an invasion of Hawaii.

IMO, the 911 terrorists used restraint by not hijacking more airplanes and by not hitting other structures which would have caused much more loss of life (however, ordering all aircraft to the ground might have stopped further attacks by default).

Since 2001, it has been a question of what year hostilities will break out.

The years are up. You can now start measuring it in months.

Will America support it? If Iran strikes first, those that count will support it and for those who are not in a "I-count" type position, the opinion of that large group wont matter.

My signature below remains unchanged. I guessed a time frame that war with Iran would break out and that window is still open. I have a window within that window and that proved to be wrong.

I hope it stays wrong. However, I will soon add to my signature that there is a 50-50 chance of a draft before 2009.

With a statement like that, I cant be wrong. But this isnt about being right or wrong. Its more about preparing myself mentally for tomorrow and performing that action today.

Once hostilities break out, Iraq, Afganistan, and Israel will be prime Iranian targets.

If memory serves me correctly, both China and the former USSR border Iran. So attacking Iran MIGHT slow the insurgent flow into Iraq and Afganistan but what about the flow from those two nightmarish foes?

And will Europe be safe from random Iranian missile lobs?

You can count on this. If there are any sleeper cells in the US that are plugged into Iran, it wont be much longer before we find out.

Its about to get bad.

Very bad.

Try to keep as cool a head as possible because your going to need it.

Soon.

And if you think your country will be involved in this in any way, you may want to make bug out plans now.

Trust me on that. I lived in the deep north for 7 years and I was in Houston for Hurricane Alicia, Tropical Storm Allison, and the near miss of Hurricane Rita after all the Katrina victims got here.

I was also in Fargo for their 500 year flood disaster back in 1997 (it was allot worse in Grand Forks, ND. Remember??).

Let me assure you from experience, if you wait until a disaster strikes to get ready, you'll get your just reward.

As expensive as it is, if you have a safe way to store gasoline, now would be the time to do it. Buy your food and beverage supplies.....spend what you think your budget allows you to afford.

Better to be over prepared then not prepared at all.

An attack of Iran might result in Iran giving a short fizzle of a response. It could just as easily turn into a full blown WWIII.

I wonder; how prepared is Russia and China for the masses of Iranians that will try to cross into those countries?

How prepared is Iraq and Afganistan?

I'll just keep this ramble going.

Once the can of worms is opened, will Latin America stand pat? North Korea?

Both North and South America arent even considering Venezuala (awful spelling) in all of this.

Plus, what a perfect time for China to move on Tiawan.

Months. Mere months.

How many of you here have teenage boys in high school?

If drafted (highly unlikely that I would be drafted), I would stand up for my country. HOWEVER, if a nuke goes off ANYWHERE in the world before Im drafted, the only thing I'll be interested in defending is me and the loved ones in my every day life. Draft or no draft, if Im not in the battle field when that first nuke goes mushroom, dont even bother trying to draft me.

I'll defend my country but I'll do it from inside my country.

Anyway, thats my take on all of it.

Opinions and counter-opinions are openly welcome. No matter what part of the world you live in.

Peace until War.

So was this an opportunist, clever move for Iran to bargain back their captured? Or a deliberate provocation by getting a bit too close for comfort to Iranian waters?

Well, the fisherman said the merchant ship was docked in Iraqi waters. The UK maintains the same line. But why would Iran take UK marines on a UN mission? Direct retribution for the new sanctions of March 24, 2007, and a delayed US Visa, making Iran's president have to cancel their trip to the UN. At least that's the way it appears.

But desperation nears. I wouldn't put it past them to convict all 15 and sentance them to death for "spying," in one last outlash at a world that has turned against them. And though they might make it real dramatic, but give them up in exchange for their 4 in trade at the last minute, the sanctions still tighten down.

And pressure mounts from within as well. With this kind of sheer constant international pressure, warships ready at their coast, imminent disaster looms once again in either the Persian Gulf- or in the highest levels of Iranian government. Could this result in a coup? Or is this just simply "time to install another dream democracy?"

And you thought you were just gonna get to read about this? Nuh uh. We the good obedient citizenry get to work harder to pay for it all. And it starts at the pump.

Pay now or pay later, choose your weapon.

Originally posted by Reap
The difficulty is that the area that the Royal navy is operatuing in isn't like the territorial waters around the US or Britain.
These are and have been for years disputed waters so the dividing line between Iran and Iraq is very grey ,
So ( A ) The Royal navy knew where they were and did it to provoke test the Iranians or
( B ) The Iranians got the hump because it deemed the Royal navy was in waters

As i said in another thread...


Could Iran of put a merchant ship so close to the border, on their side knowing full well the british would inspect it?
The Coalition has admitted it makes incursions into Iranian area's, so we cant rule out the chance of them actually entering Iranian waters...
There's no logic in Iran kidnapping Coalition soliders FROM Coalition zones.....

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
There's no logic in Iran kidnapping Coalition soliders FROM Coalition zones.....

Yes there is, if that is the ONLY way by which they could capture a much needed barging chip then they would do it rather than sit by idly and wait for a chance happening where coalition troops enter "Iranian waters". Even the local Iraqis that were in the area said the Iranian boat took the UK marines into Iranian waters...

[edit on 25-3-2007 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
observer.guardian.co.uk...

According to that report the 15 Britons are to be prosecuted, if that happens, I wonder if they will be tried under the guidelines of international law and the Geneva conventions?

Anyone know where Iranian law stands on issues like this?

I think we all know the answer to that one. They're not exactly famous for Prisons filled with PS2's and HDTV's like our's.....

having said that, they did threaten to prosecute our boy's last time, so we'll see if they have the gonad's this time. If they do, I hope Blair has a set of balls up his sleeve...

Agit8dChop, You also said the Iranians wouldn't be this stupid as I recall, seems that you are wrong, they are as Stupid as Bush and his Cronies, are you going to start bashing the Iranians now? somehow I don't see that happening

when you have religious Zealots wanting war on BOTH sides, nothing short of God himself will be able to stop it..

oh and Agit8dChop, if you kept the bashing to Just Bush less folks would harass you but you don't you lump the rest of us in with him.. you make it sound like the People of the US of A voted him into Office or something... it's not like anyone is saying your all criminals coming from a penal colony and all.......

( and if any of my fellow citizens think we did, you are naive, research voter fraud)

Sigh, digirahti... you must of had a bad day or something yeah? ...

IVe said this many times and ill say it again....

I love the USA.. the land itself is Awesome.
The people, for the most part are AWESOME.
the achievements of the USA are unparalleled in the world.

the US is a GREAT COUNTRY WHEN you’ve got proper goals.

Invading and Occupying Iraq simply for corporate greed, is not a 'proper' and noble goal worthy of praise in my books.

My typing, and my grammar I do understand comes across that im lumping you all.

when i say 'you' I mean the US as an administration.
If you’ve got problems with my grammar, well that’s your problem to deal with.




[edit on 25-3-2007 by Agit8dChop]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

its like its ILLEGIAL these days to speak ill of the USA.

[edit on 24-3-2007 by Agit8dChop]

Only in a thread that doesn't involve them. This is a BRITISH concern.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Lets hope they use the same 'humane' methods of interogation that the coalition uses eh?

I mean, if the US and british are so 'noble' im sure we can expect our enemies to do to us, as we do to them right?

Or is that to much of an anti-american view?

[edit on 24-3-2007 by Agit8dChop]

Please provide links of where the British have performed such acts. Also, let me ask you this. If these were Australian (That is Perth, AUS isn't it? I'm gonna feel such a maroon if you're not from Down Under! ) forces that were captured, would you hope for them to be tortured for just doing a job?

Finally, leave the US-bashing for threads that relate to the US. Just chill out and take a deep breath whenever your head feels like it's going to explode before posting We all know how you feel, some of us agree, some don't, but I don't think you need to rehash it all every time out. Thank-you.

no I have no problem with grammar, as long as it is clear, I am a former Marine, I served my time, I hate what is/has happened in my country

I don't live to far from shrubs home of residence, someday I may travel up that way (provided of course the world has not gone to hell beforehand)

we use "bushCo" as nomenclature, it makes for clarity and better understanding
and there is enough mis communication in the world already the "rabid" supporters of this most like would become bootlcking sycophants if given the chance ( I hope they never get it)

this is my 200th post, "sigh" now I can debate in the chat rooms

I hold no malice toward anyone in life it is bad Karma However some people of the world need to get paddled

news.bbc.co.uk...
British requests for access to 15 Royal Navy personnel held by Iran have been denied, the UK has said.

In a meeting in Tehran between Iranian government officials and the UK ambassador, Iran also failed to say where the 15 were being held.

A very tough game is being played here, I don't like it.

I had a question (while I remember!). Could the Revolutionary Guard have been operating entirely on their own? They decided then and there to try and capture some RN service people, take them back to Iran and say, "Look what we brought you!". Now Iran has to do something to look like they are in control. Plausible?