UK troops captured by Iran

Do not bring United States into this...they are only montering the situation. This is a British/Iran Problem!!


Ahmadinejad cancels U.N. Security Council visit

www.cnn.com...

You are by far the most Anti-American piece of [mod edit] i've ever sene in my life Agit



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[edit on 3/24/2007 by Gools]

Originally posted by Wirral Bagpuss
Anyone remember the Iranian Embassy Seige after that poor Police woman Yyonne Fletcher was brutally gunned down in London? I remember watching the breaking news at the time i was only about 10 when the SAS stormed the building.

Those were two separate events - WPC Fletcher was murdered by someone opening fire from the Libyan Embassy. To date that particular individual has never been identified.

The Iranian embassy was captured by terrorists funded by Saddam Hussein's government and was eventually stormed by the SAS as you remember.

Iran has its hands tied on this issue frankly. It can't execute or harm the captive sailors and marines (both of these actions would provoke a response), it can't hold them indefinitely (a rescue would probably be attempted) so all it can do really is free them.

Originally posted by KonigKaos
Do not bring United States into this...they are only montering the situation. This is a British/Iran Problem!!

I think you're being a bit naive if you believe the United States will stay out of this. Remember the HMS Cornwall was operating as part of a coalition fleet ultimately under the command of a US Vice Admiral, I believe. If only for that reason alone (ignoring any number of other reasons as to why the US will be involved in this incident) you'll find that the United States will be playing a role in this one. It'll be a secondary role no doubt, but nevertheless the US will be there.

Welcome back, everyone

news.bbc.co.uk...
The 15 Royal Navy personnel seized at gunpoint in the Gulf by Iran are reportedly being questioned in Tehran.

Iranian armed forces spokesman Gen Ali Reza Afshar told Iranian radio the crew were being interrogated and had admitted being in Iranian waters.

Now, what I am guessing here is that the Iranians may have asked, "Where you here?" referencing their position in the disputed waters between Iran and Iraq, and not in actual Iranian territory.

Let's hope these British troops are released in a few days at most. It's a tough time for their families. No quick release occurred in 1979-1981 when the Iranians held 52 American diplomats hostage for 444 days. I hope sensible diplomacy will defuse this situation



[edit on 3/24/2007 by TheAvenger]

Just to clear things up, the boats weren't escorted into Iranian waters, that is a totally different event that happened 3 years ago:

In 2004, Iran detained eight British servicemen for three days after they allegedly strayed over the maritime border. The UK claimed the men were "forcibly escorted" into Iranian territorial waters. The men were paraded blindfolded and made to apologise on Iranian TV before their release was agreed.

Originally posted by KonigKaos
But if they arent returned at the request of the British Government then I think nothing more then war should settle this,

Why are you so eager for war? Trying political means to have the men released is always going to be the first and most sensible option.

thus isnt the capturing of ones Military by another country an Act of War, I dont know so if someone can answer please do!

Well it could be considered an act of war but you've got to ask yourself how they let themselves be captured. If our troops were in their territory then they have every right to know why, and they decided that capturing them was the first step in that process. Hopefully it won't go any further than that though.

I wonder if Iran are thinking "Wahey, look what we pulled off!" or "Oh crap the Brits are gonna be mad..."
One scratch on any of them soldiers though and I don't think Britain will be playing Mr. Nice Guy.

Any ideas on who would have given the order for this from the Iranian side?

Originally posted by TheAvenger
Let's hope these British troops are released in a few days at most. It's a tough time for their families. no quick release occurred in 1979-1981 when the Iranians held 52 American diplomats hostage for 444 days. I hope sensible diplomacy will de-fuse this situation

Here, here! We can only imagine how difficult the last 24 hours have been for their families, friends and fellow crewmen, not to mention the men (and at least one woman) that were captured!

The United States will get involved if it turns sour, they're just sitting on the sideline right now so the Brits can have a fair chance at getting them back diplomatically.

As has been said, it was a coalition fleet and the Americans wouldn't hesitate to go in after these guys.

Also, it's an attack on a member country of NATO and effectively a declaration of war. If Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty were invoked it would force other countries to help in a rescue mission.

Personally I can't see a rescue mission happening now that they are in Tehran.

My thoughts are with the soldiers being held captive and their families. I expect and hope to hear of their safe return very soon.

Having said that, the British are in the same war as the US and are in the region because of the US-led war that the US (Bush) started in Iraq. If not for the Iraq war, the UK would not be there. The US and the UK are in this war together and the US led and started it. The US and the UK are all the same occupying force in the Middle East. I realize a lot of people want to separate them, but they’re together in this thing. They are one force as far as Iran and most of the world are concerned. I’m not sure why people are trying to separate them. They’re allies in this war.

Originally posted by Wirral Bagpuss
However if Iran starts showing aggressive behaviour and harms the British Sailors or begins openly attacking troops/ships in the Middle East then i think an attack on Iran is justified but this time it should be a blue helmet job, under the jusrisdiction of the UN.

And wouldn’t that just be a great reason (excuse) to start a full-blown action against Iran, which Bush (not most of the US people) obviously has been just itching to do for many months now? There’s no need for it to be under the jurisdiction of the UN, as we’re already at war over there. If Iran ‘attacks’ the occupying forces in Iraq, whether it’s US or UK forces, like you said, it would justify a response from the US-led forces.

And if Iran “accidentally” entered Iraq or Iraqi waters it would be considered “provocation”.

ynet

Bolton: Iranian regime must be toppled

Former US ambassador to UN John Bolton tells Ynet world has waited too long and has done too little to restrain Iran, deal with its nuclear program.
…
John Bolton, the outgoing American ambassador to the UN, said that his country should have launched efforts to topple the Mullahs' regime in Iran four years ago.

AP

The eight Royal Navy sailors and seven Royal Marines had just searched a merchant ship when they and their two inflatable boats were intercepted by Iranian vessels Friday at around 10:30 a.m. near the disputed Shatt al-Arab waterway, U.S. and British officials said. The Iranian vessels surrounded them and escorted them away at gunpoint.
…
In June 2004, six British marines and two sailors were seized by Iran in the same waterway. They were presented blindfolded on Iranian television and admitted entering Iranian waters illegally, then released unharmed after three days.

I’m not suggesting they were actually admitting guilt as they were blindfolded and in Iranian custody, it’s just information. Does anyone know what they said after they were released?

The US (BushCo) will not stay out of this. It’s either exactly what they’ve been waiting for or they orchestrated it with the UK themselves to bring about the desired excuse to invade Iran.

No one knows the full story yet and we may never know the truth, but speculation is what we do. And seeing the US and UK behavior for what it is is not Anti-American. It’s simply observation.

Just found this

Iran's military says Britons "confessed" entry
news.yahoo.com...;_ylt=Aihr8NyaKTtQnA1BRxHFH66bOrgF

One of things that bothered me is the fact that the Iranians said the captured forces included females. Women have very little status in that part of the world.

The European Union is about to get in on this as well. Germany which holds the presidency of the EU will be demanding shortly that Iran releases the British personnel.

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
Will gurantee ya either this will give Bush and Bliar the opportunity to attack Iran or Iran will use these guys as pawns in negotiating, the sanctions to be dropped.

I disagree. There is no chance that the sanctions will be dropped over 15 people. My guess is that after a few days the Iranians will blink. They have no support from other nations in this, and they know that they're not going to win.

I don't think the U.S. or Great Britain will use this incident as an "excuse" for
invading Iran. It could come to that, however, if the Iranians resist the sensible course of diplomacy.

[edit on 3/24/2007 by TheAvenger]

Originally posted by Nerdling
The United States will get involved if it turns sour, they're just sitting on the sideline right now so the Brits can have a fair chance at getting them back diplomatically.

As has been said, it was a coalition fleet and the Americans wouldn't hesitate to go in after these guys.

i know your a mod, but can you please stop saying "the US will go in" like your our big daddy and protector or something i'm sick of reading it in these threads.

this is OUR problem and OUR men and britain have handled its own problems all the way through it's history, from the empire to falkalnds war in the 80's and if worse comes to worse i have no doubt we will again 2007, although i know the US will always be there to lend a helping hand should worse case sas/rescue mission or even conflict occur.

[edit on 24-3-2007 by Sepiroth]

Iran are being talking very aggressive.

They have said - Soldiers in their waters, Doing an unspeakable act?, They will be interogated and will have to answer to the act.

Lets not forget, last time they did this, they split the soldiers into 2 groups, made them dig graves, blind folded them and fired shots in the air so each one thought the others had been executed.

God only knows what they are doing to those British service men and women

They have the ship from the last time they did this in one of their war museums.

A war museum for christ sake!

They are being the agressors here, and they are the only ones who need to answer a few questions.

Free the british service men and women now!



[edit on 24-3-2007 by BeyondPlanetEarth]

[edit on 24-3-2007 by BeyondPlanetEarth]

[edit on 24-3-2007 by BeyondPlanetEarth]

[edit on 24-3-2007 by BeyondPlanetEarth]

nytimes.com

LONDON, March 24 — One day after its forces seized 15 British naval personnel near disputed waters, Iran accused Britain today of “blatant aggression,” further ratcheting up diplomatic tensions. Britain demanded “the immediate and safe return” of its personnel.

In Tehran, the Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman, Mohammad Ali Hosseini, said the Britons — eight sailors and seven Royal Marines — had violated “the sovereign boundaries of other states,” the state-run IRNA news agency said, adding that Iran was carrying out “further investigation of the blatant aggression.”

(Click the above source link for the full article)

UN sanctions vote today.

Iranian President canceled trip to UN.

Russians distancing from Iran.

Additional US aircraft carrier group moved into region.

Counter Threats from Iranian Leader

Iranian war games.

And more.

It seems as if all sides are resigning themselves to some kind of conflict or military actions. Ultimately only time will tell.

Israel is clearly wanting to "remove the nuclear threat" from Iran, and it seems as if the stage is being set for that to happen.

Is war imminent?

Lets all hope not.


[edit on 24-3-2007 by UM_Gazz]

powerful words

=====
"In the name of the EU, we want to make clear that we expect Iran to release them without delay''
=====

www.bloomberg.com...

The US isn't the UK's "big daddy" or protector. We are Brothers in Arms.
The US and UK are part of a bigger Anglo "family" including Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. When something happens to a member of this "family" Americans are likely to relate and sympathise.

We may bicker between one another at times but we have a special relationship that few nations on earth have. So I don't see any problem with the US standing with its brothers and willing to confront those who wish to harm us.

[edit on 24/3/07 by MikeboydUS]

I don't get this, from my prospective at least, capturing foreign soldiers of a sovereign state when they are NOT violating your territory is an act of war. So the question is why is the UK allowing Iran to get away with this not once but twice? They should have seriously changed their operating procedures and ROE's after the first incident in 2004, make it clear to the Iran that this will just not happen anymore. Make the threat of a military response very real...

In 2004 the UK sat by and did nothing, much like now, I'm sure political one liners and condemnations with zero real world repercussions are making a difference in Iran. Now we have more talk from the "EU"... Bah. If allowing your soldiers to get captured and paraded on Iranian TV while they recite propaganda so they can be released is SOP then something is not right...


[edit on 24-3-2007 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by Sepiroth

Originally posted by Nerdling
The United States will get involved if it turns sour, they're just sitting on the sideline right now so the Brits can have a fair chance at getting them back diplomatically.

As has been said, it was a coalition fleet and the Americans wouldn't hesitate to go in after these guys.

i know your a mod, but can you please stop saying "the US will go in" like your our big daddy and protector or something

i'm sick of reading it in these threads.

this is OUR problem and OUR men and britain have handled its own problems all the way through it's history, from the empire to falkalnds war in the 80's and if worse comes to worse i have no doubt we will again 2007, although i know the US will always be there to lend a helping hand should worse case sas/rescue mission or even conflict occur.

[edit on 24-3-2007 by Sepiroth]

You should not be so quick to presume, I am a Brit.

Britain lacks the strategic resources to go in and get them, without cover fire at the very least from the Americans it would be a suicide mission.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I don't get this, from my prospective at least, capturing foreign soldiers of a sovereign state when they are NOT violating your territory is an act of war. So the question is why is the UK allowing Iran to get away with this not once but twice?

That is what Iran wants, to get this war started and have been pushing all available buttons for the past few years, hopefully Iran will repeat their performance when they coerced confessions last time and the soldiers will be released soon.

Make no mistake, if harm comes to the soldiers you will get your desired response.

Originally posted by JacKatMtn
That is what Iran wants, to get this war started and have been pushing all available buttons for the past few years, hopefully Iran will repeat their performance when they coerced confessions last time and the soldiers will be released soon.

Were these confessions coerced?

Iran: British Sailors, Marines Confessed to Illegally Entering Waters

TEHRAN, Iran — The Iranian military questioned 15 detained British soldiers Saturday and said they confessed to illegally entering the country's territorial waters as Iran accused Britain of "blatant aggression."

Iran's tough comments came after Britain demanded the return of the sailors and denied they had strayed into Iranian waters while searching for smugglers off Iraq's coast.