UK troops captured by Iran

Originally posted by uberarcanist
I seriously doubt America or Israel would go to war over something like this; I've run it thru my head a million times, a war with Iran just isn't winnable in any real sense of the word. America and Israel know this too, if they didn't they would have gone to war with Iran already.

Explain to me how Iran's offensive capabilities would not be wiped out by a massive US air campaign. I'm not talking about something like the crap over Serbia but a real air campaign as in Iraq 1991.

Winning the war is easy, beating the ensuing insurgency is impossible.

Originally posted by DYepes
Restrained? How hard is it to call the conselate as soon as it happened and say "hey look, sorry about what happened, could we work something out under the table so this doesnt become public issue number one?"

However, as has already been said, it is not the intention to be respectful in this matter, but to instigate, intimidate, and demonize the people that were securing their borders?

They did try to work it out at first. Within the first two days. It is now 30 March almost a week after theyve been taken.

As far as I know personally the British or the Iranians could of been any where. The evidence points to the UK having its forces within Iraqi waters and Iran mistaken about it's position.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Winning the war is easy, beating the ensuing insurgency is impossible.

There will be no invasion. If military action occurs it will be bombs and missiles. We don't want that country. We don't want to rebuild it. We would bomb it and make sure they are no longer a threat to anyone.

You suggest genocide?

Originally posted by uberarcanist
You suggest genocide?

No, Nothing like that. Simply reduce their military capabilities to the point of no longer being a threat. That would mean bombing of military bases, military industries, bridges, railroads, airports, power plants, government facilities, radio, televison, and telecommunication facilities. That would be about it. Then establish no fly zones and no ship zones.

I personally don't want it to come to this. I don't want war. I would have them sit down and talk, I would mediate. I'd tell them that demanding apologies is no excuse to hold those people. Don't worry about who or who isn't at fault. Stop playing the blame game and just let the people go so the world can go back to normal. The people's lives are whats important not abstract things like apologies. I would also let them know if any harm comes to these people, they will have to deal with the consequences.

I think the Iranians are prepared for the consequences. They've probably got lots of arms in well-protected caches, also arms in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. Wiping out their military capability would be difficult if not impossible.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
I think the Iranians are prepared for the consequences. They've probably got lots of arms in well-protected caches, also arms in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. Wiping out their military capability would be difficult if not impossible.

Wiping out caches of small arms, mortars, and rpgs would be about impossible. What would need to be wiped out is combat aircraft, naval vessels, armored vehicles, long range rockets, bases, and the factories that build them. Once those are eliminated they would no longer have any power projection or real offensive power. Their military would be reduced to guerillas.

Yeah, and they could rebuild in no time flat with assistance from China and Russia.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Yeah, and they could rebuild in no time flat with assistance from China and Russia.

A naval bloackade and sanctions would take care of that. Of course they would still be able to smuggle more small arms, rpgs and mortars in. Tanks and combat aircaft would be kept out.

So oil prices skyrocket?

Originally posted by malganis
No but isn't there some way that they could have just changed the details of the GPS report to fit in with their story? It can't be that hard.

To change the position of multiple satilites to fit the numbers?

I'm just trying to look for possibilities here instead of automatically brushing everything off unless it fits in with the British story.

Well I doubt we could since the UK has no control over US or EU satilites.

I still don't understand why Iran would sail into Iraqi waters and just kidnap some of our troops, knowing what the consequences would be, it just doesn't add up. The main reason that has been suggested is just to show that they can. But is that really worth going to war for?

This tactic isnt new, not only do they have a bargening chip as long as they hold the hostages they can try and hurt the UK's position by claiming the UK is infiltrating thier borders.

Originally posted by marg6043
Exactly, DYepes, funny how short memories, some have when the war path is all they can see in front of their eyes. . .

It makes you wonder who are the real civilized nations and which ones fall short.

No offence but how is this this OUR (UK's) problem?
Did we torture suspects? No its illegal to us.
Do we torture suspect? See above.
Do we have any facilities like abugrave? No we dont is the answer.

Frankly I dont see how we can be help justified for actions of another country, also I would like americans to stop hijajking this thread if at all possible.

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

for me this just does not add up. I think it was staged.

why would Iran go into Iraqi waters to capture them?

What is exactly Iran gaining from this??

Why would they go into Iraqi waters to capture them knowing full well of the end results of the international community putting them under presure to release them?? and knowing full well that it would only increase the risk of military strikes on their nuke sites??

It has been days now and Iran is sticking to its guns and not backing down simply because the sailers were in Iranian waters. and if not what is Iran
gaining from this???

Originally posted by DYepes
The reality is you should all be calling for the discipline of the person who ordered the Marines into territorial waters. For all the Iranians knew these soldiers could have been attempting to sneak in for terrorist attacks, mining the waters, on a mission to kidnap etc etc.

Please provide links. Would the Iranians not be shouting this from the rooftops if true? They are not special forces and if the had mines and bombs why would Iran not tell everyone?

Do you think the Indian merchant ship does not exist then?

Originally posted by DYepesI have no doubt these soldiers were ordered into those waters in an attempt to instigate war. Look at how mister Blair is trying to act all big and tough, further beating the nest of bees with a stick. If he had not the US behind his back, he would be all smiles and apologies right now.

Again, please provide links. You "have no doubt"? What possible evidence could you have to support your beliefs?

Originally posted by DYepesyou people talk about growing a backbone, well it takes a real man/woman to say "I am sorry" and try to rebuild a friendship. fighting is the easiest way to deal with anything, and is for people who are too scared and/or ignorant to seek a peaceful dialogue.

Do you apologise when you have done nothing wrong? Taking those Royal Navy personnel was ILLEGAL in ANY waters. IF they were in Iranian territorial waters then the only thing they could have done was escort them back out again.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by malganis
No but isn't there some way that they could have just changed the details of the GPS report to fit in with their story? It can't be that hard.

To change the position of multiple satilites to fit the numbers?

Something as simple as to change the numbers on the report? Give fake co-ordinates?

One thing that has happened as a result of this, is the apparent gap widening between cultures and it really upsets me. Hardline Islamic culture does have a tendency to go for the throat very quickly and it appears that even the moderate muslims are getting in on the act now too. This is invariably throwing the rest of the western hemisphere into the pot too and people both sides are becoming more patriotic and more vociferous. The gap will become too wide if we are all not careful.

People who advocate an Iranian war somehow are missing the point that the average Iranian is just the same as the average Englishman or American. All of us appeear to be subject to incorrect leadership.

If it comes to a war with Iran, you can expect to see an uprising of muslims, particularly in the UK as they are now no longer a minority.

It's all very worrying.

Breaking news on Sky.....third letter released now from Faye Turney stating that she has been "sacrificed to US and UK policy."

There does indeed come to a point where you have to ask yourself if the Iraninas really think we believe these words are written by this woman?

Getting silly now.

CX.

Did you just make that 'breaking news' up as a scenario to make a point, or was that really on Sky? I can't tell! =S

If that really was the third letter, I guess we can assume the woman will be executed and it's time for the fire works?

Originally posted by Navieko
Did you just make that 'breaking news' up as a scenario to make a point, or was that really on Sky? I can't tell! =S

Lol, i like being a member of this site, and i am aware that making stuff up here can get you banned....so no i did'nt make that up!

If you're able to get Sky News or the BBC news it's all over it at the mo, i'll put up a link when one becomes available.

CX.

[edit on 30/3/07 by CX]

Originally posted by CX
Breaking news on Sky.....third letter released now from Faye Turney stating that she has been "sacrificed to US and UK policy."

There does indeed come to a point where you have to ask yourself if the Iraninas really think we believe these words are written by this woman?

Getting silly now.

CX.

I think an important point is that the Iranians are doing everything purely for internal consumption. I find it hard to believe they care about the families of the personnel or what the world as a whole thinks. I'm starting to think that maybe this has been done in order to desperately hang on to power as maybe the people are very sick of them.